biodiesel?

[falm16]

anybody making it at home? my bud just made a batch. besides the 300 bucks he spent in equipment, his came out to 46 cents a gallon. just put some in my isuzu, will try it out tomorrow. not a bad idea to get a diesel vehicle and brew your own.

[CW]

There was an article about making Biodiesel in Make Magazine. I think the writer went to a local Chinese resteraunt to get used cooking oil and made gallons of the stuff for cheap.

[falm16]

that what my friend uses, used cooking oil, lye and methane. OOPS, i meant methanol.:D

[IamElmerJFudd]

I had a friend who was making his own and a neighbor called the police because of the smell of chemicals and witnessing my friend transporting barrels. After explaining to the friendly neighborhood SWAT team that he did not have a meth lab in his shed, that it was all for producing biodiesel, he then got visits from the fire marshal, code enforcement, EPA and DOT inspectors. He was informed that to continue he would need to be licensed by the EPA and Health Department to remove waste oil from restaurants and would need a business license as a waste removal company, and would have to pay for commercial waste disposal for the byproduct that was generated by the production of the fuel and he owed a penalty to the DOT for operating a vehicle on public roads without paying the road tax that is added at the pump for regular fuel purchases and would have to pay them an estimated road tax every month thereafter. The immediate total was around $17,000 which would be waved if he ceased production. He decided to buy his fuel in the future and avoid the hassles. I have another friend who owns a garage and has been running his diesel truck on the used transmission fluid from his shop's recovery tank for the last few months. He runs it through two filters first and says he is getting the same mileage and power and he thinks the only consequence is it might require valve jobs a little more often.

[trainsktg]

I had a friend who was making his own and a neighbor called the police because of the smell of chemicals and witnessing my friend transporting barrels. After explaining to the friendly neighborhood SWAT team that he did not have a meth lab in his shed, that it was all for producing biodiesel, he then got visits from the fire marshal, code enforcement, EPA and DOT inspectors. He was informed that to continue he would need to be licensed by the EPA and Health Department to remove waste oil from restaurants and would need a business license as a waste removal company, and would have to pay for commercial waste disposal for the byproduct that was generated by the production of the fuel and he owed a penalty to the DOT for operating a vehicle on public roads without paying the road tax that is added at the pump for regular fuel purchases and would have to pay them an estimated road tax every month thereafter. The immediate total was around $17,000 which would be waved if he ceased production. He decided to buy his fuel in the future and avoid the hassles.

This is funny in a very unfunny way.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Keith

[falm16]

i tried it out today in the ole isuzu. it has noticebly more power and seems to clank less, less outside noise. i'll keep my eye out for DOT. my friend that is making it lives far out in the country, so he does'nt have to worry about code enforcement or the fire marshal. i never thought about the EPA and DOT. he told me the only by-product was glycerine, and it was bio degradable. oh yea, the stuff makes me hungry whille driving.... smells like fish cooking.

[BBQ SAM]

I cant remember what channel it is on , Maybe TheScienceChannel .

A show called invention nation . It is all eco friendly BS , BUT a good show !

These 3 real life mechanics buy a bus and drive across the country looking for various ways to power their bus without fossil fuel . It is on once a week for 30 minutes . ALOT of very good ideas out there . Good show . Did a show on the biodiesel a while back . If I had an old clunker diesel I would do it .

[falm16]

even at the risk of DOT/EPA/FBI and the CIA cracking your head?

[SIX GUNN]

I cant remember what channel it is on , Maybe TheScienceChannel .

A show called invention nation . It is all eco friendly BS , BUT a good show !

These 3 real life mechanics buy a bus and drive across the country looking for various ways to power their bus without fossil fuel . It is on once a week for 30 minutes . ALOT of very good ideas out there . Good show . Did a show on the biodiesel a while back . If I had an old clunker diesel I would do it .

Hey got a 88 f-450 super duty sitting out in front of the barn,needs some work though! Come out sometime and will experiment!

[BBQ SAM]

Where I live - No one cares . Pick a good neighborhood , talk to your neighbors before you buy . Tell them what you plan to do so they can buy their diesel from you . In a farming community , you could very well be the local hero . The stories I have read about the fed coming in , were people in the subburbs with city folk . Country folk will even help you out . If ya cant tell , I REALY like where I live !:)

[BBQ SAM]

Hey got a 88 f-450 super duty sitting out in front of the barn,needs some work though! Come out sometime and will experiment!

I've been thinking about it . I know As many people as you do that would buy it from us .:D I know ALOT of places that would THANK us for hauling off their old oil too .

I just wish there was a way to use pig fat . We creat about 5 to 10 gallons per day at the store .

[falm16]

you could probably rig up a drip system to turn that pigfat into a heater or something. or just give it to the pig farmers, let them spike their pigfeed with it. i had never heard of a problem with making your own biofuel till the poster on this thread stated that stuff. BBQ, if nothing else, spray pigfat on your local grave roads, will keep the dust down.:D

[Ben-in-KS]

My quick thoughts when I first heard about it it was it is like a ponzi scheme.

If you are one of the first ones into it, you can make money off of it (or save money on your fuel bill). As more people do it, the oil will begin to cost more. Eventually, as more people make the fuel, it will cost about the same to make it, as it does to buy diesel.

I say cost more, because, even though the shows say it is free from restaurants, and they would be happy to give it to you....they won't. I worked at a restaurant right out of school, and back then, we sold our used oil to a rendering plant. If more people come to thier door, asking for the oil, don't you think they will start charging for it?

I also heard that biodiesel will jel more that pump diesel during the winter time. I am not sure if it is true, but I remember watching that on a show.

Enviromentally, I like the idea. The vegetable oil is already here, there is not extra engery required to pump/grow/refine the fuel. As a nation, it is something to think about, but all costs must be considered.

[trainsktg]

Personally, if (when?) gas goes up to $8 a gallon (THEY are talking $4 by spring), I think more people would buy scooters and motorcycles than go through the process/hassle of making their own biodiesel. Even here in Sunny Oregon, its surprising how many people bundle up in all kinds of weather, all year long, to ride a motorcycle or bicycle...even when gas was under $2 a few years ago.

And, of course, there's nothing like the thought of jackbooted alphabet-soup-agency thugs at your door to help make up one's mind.

Keith

[IamElmerJFudd]

Biodiesel should run better in your old Isuzu. My understanding is that it has greater lubricity and burns hotter so more completely. Some folks run on used vegetable oil without converting it to biodiesel first and that is what gels in cold weather. The guys on that show are running their bus on straight veggie oil but have a pre-heater to keep it from turning to gel. The glycerin is what concerned the EPA, my friend had been dumping it into trash bags and throwing it out with the rest of his garbage and they said it had to be properly disposed of. All this after the President himself said we need to invest in alternative fuels.:mad:

[Proshot]

I don't think biodiesel will be the answer.
As soon as the resturant owner figure out that they can make money selling there waste oil and fats, the price will not be so cheap.
Also, I'm not willing to pay 10 dollars for three ears of corn because the farmer is growing corn or soybean or rice or whatever and not sending it to the market. Now the oil/chemical companies come and collect the crops themselves from the farmers.

I know Rudolf Diesel invented the first diesel engine and he orginally designed the engine to run off peanut oil. With modern design and technolgy and material, will todays built diesel engines continue to preform well with biodiesel as the fuel?
I don't have a diesel car/truck but I do wonder.
I live in the country.
Each year someone always uses farm grade diesel in there diesel work truck. And every year someone always burns-up there diesel engine useing farm grade diesel.
I wonder if bio-diesel will have the same effect it the end.

Thanks,
Proshot

[falm16]

the friend that is making it for me is a very good mechanic, about 30+ years experience. he's also certified diesel and aviation mechanic. he says the bio fuel has more lubrication than other diesel and is cleaner and better for your engine. he also says to change the filter after the first week or 2 of running it because it cleans out the system. he's running it in a volkswagen bug and a big dodge truck, both very late models.

[BBQ SAM]

Dont forget , Willie Nelson . He runs bio in all of his tour busses and trucks . I suspect that would be around 100,000 miles a year . ?

[cujet]

anybody making it at home? my bud just made a batch. besides the 300 bucks he spent in equipment, his came out to 46 cents a gallon. just put some in my isuzu, will try it out tomorrow. not a bad idea to get a diesel vehicle and brew your own.

I am sure you are aware that bio diesel has some drawbacks. Certainly waste veggie oil, run straight is problematic for the mechanicals.

But, just in case you did not know, true bio (what you are running) is a great solvent. Often times the fuel filter clogs quickly as debris and sediment are disolved. Even on new clean systems, they have issues with clogging filters.

Some bioD is also causing injection system problems. Just go to a diesel injection pump overhaul shop and they will point out the units that failed due to some issue with bioD. Sorry, but I do not know why. Just that some have issues. Be ready.

SVO (straight veggie oil) is best left for big, slow turning stationary diesels like Listeroids. The carbon buildup is excessive (bieng easy to disassemble is important), as are nozzle clogging issues, pump issues, and pre heat issues.

Everything I own is diesel, except my Ford F150. I have a 20/2 + a 6/1 Listeroid, 2 VW diesel rabbits, 1 '06 jetta TDI and a 3HP Changfa single cylinder diesel

Chris

[falm16]

thanks for the info. that's what he told me about the bio also on changing the filter. i won't be running any vegatable oil, just processed bio.

[AzCetme]

Some bioD is also causing injection system problems. Just go to a diesel injection pump overhaul shop and they will point out the units that failed due to some issue with bioD. Sorry, but I do not know why. Just that some have issues. Be ready.

I had the seal in my injection pump ('01 Golf TDI) fail earlier this year. I never ran bioD in it. Talked to my VW mechanic buddy & he told me that it most likely failed due to the ULSD that's been out since mid '06. He said the seals, having been conditioned with regular diesel all these years tend to shrink & crack once they're exposed to the ULSD. Now, I'm seeing stickers on the diesel pumps claiming that ULSD has been known to cause seal problems. I guess the Feds got enough complaints about the correlation of seals (on diesels of all years) failing frequently once the ULSD was mandated. My buddy said that at the time, VW figured that's what the problem was, but they wouldn't admit to it because either installing a new IP or rebuilding one was a huge cash cow for them. He told me that around a year ago, the dealership he worked at was averaging 1-2 a week that they were replacing. I replaced the seal in mine myself and saved myself ~$2000 instead of going to the dealer. Also, the seals are now being manufactured out of Viton, which stands up better to the ULSD. While I don't disagree that bioD might have caused some other problems with the IP's, if it was a seal issue, it might have been the ULSD was the major contributing factor.

[Buckshooter]

Anybody out there got the recipe for making the bio-diesel with the methanol, lye, and vegetable oil?

[falm16]

try journeytoforever.org or just type in how to make biodiesel in your search box.

[BBQ SAM]

BTT for BJS .

[Seano]

I've been running various percentages of Biodiesel in my little "Bugout/SHTF" short school bus/camper for about 20 months now, and I've learned a little about it here and there. First and foremost, if you are using an engine with a Stanadyne rotary injection pump...my engine is a GM/Detroit Diesel 6.2 liter, the same kind used in the older HMMWVs and some other military trucks...it's a Godsend.

Those pumps basically relied on the sulfur in the Diesel fuel for lubrication, and this sulfur was promptly taken almost all the way out with the advent of ULSD. I've read tons of accounts of these older pumps seizing with the new fuel. Biodiesel, even in low percentages, helps enormously with this.

Now, the stories about clogged fuel filters are true. Basically, Bio is an incredibly efficient solvent, and old tanks/lines can be pretty gunked up. Plan on changing out your filter every few months at first...if I could go back and do this over again, I would have installed a cheap "in-line" filter upstream from the main $20 "box" filter. Heck, I might go and do this anyway when it warms up a little.

Speaking of cold, the stuff really does gel up below freezing, but you can get away with a mixture of B20 down into the teens. I prefer to add some "Cetane Booster" formulated for Bio in really cold weather.

As far as mileage goes, I've seen a slight drop, but the way I look at it is that the fuel is loads better for the engine itself, and I'll probably save money in the long run that way.

One real interesting thing to read about it where the future of this fuel is going. Currently, a lot of it is made from waste oil or various feedstocks like rapeseed (canola) and so forth. This works, but it's just not that efficient. Some very bright minds are experimenting with types of algae to produce the oil that Biodiesel is made from, and they claim that these strains of algae are more efficient by an incredible order of magnitude...like dozens or even hundreds of times more oil produced per acre of land compared to traditional crops.

Of course, this is all in it's infancy...it's going to be another several years before large-scale algae biodiesel comes on line, but I'm willing to bet that at what conventional fuel is going for right now, that a lot of investors will come around to see this as something pretty viable...just type "algae biodiesel" into google news and look at all the pro and con articles out there.

Best of luck to everyone out there interested in this stuff...I like heavy duty trucks, and I'm pretty sold on Diesel engines at this point...at $4 per gallon, gasoline just doesn't make sense in those types of vehicles.

Of course, for a daily commuter I'm looking for a moped or motorcycle that gets 50 mpg, but that's another story...

[Mackat]

I run up to 20% wvo<waste veg oil> in my 06 duramax never had an issue in 10k so far.
I am currently in search of an 84/85 300 benz to run on 100%wvo if you have one for sale let me know.I looked over one my customer had last week that was converted.hes got 50k on it since and no problems at all<fuel related atleast i just rebuilt his turbo>the conversion is very simple the heater lines are tapped and antifreeze is run thru copper tubing coiled around a seperate filter.2 fuel soloniods are under the hood which reroute the fuel once operating temp is reached.he has a seperate tank in his trunk for the oil so if anyone even bothered to check his tank theres nothing but diesel in it.I could build a system in a few hrs for a few hundred bucks tops.im in the process of modifying another customers turbo for a vw tdi he will be at 150+ hp when im done and hes running on wvo also if I can find some lye locally ill convert some and see how it works as i have plenty of methanol and wvo.you can also use wvo/bio diesel in your oil burner.as far as the govt is concerned keep your mouth shut.its your business whats in your tank.I used to visit some forums related to wvo and biodiesel conversion but gave up on them when users wanted to know who they could pay their fuel tax to.diesels are the way of the future 50% or better of the vehicles sole in europe are diesel.my diesel liberty<which i had to buy and register out of state due to the commies here>gets 33 mpg compare that to the gas model at 23.remember wvo is waste you are recycling and it come from a renewable resource and the new diesels with the high pressure common rail injection pollute very little.diesels have a bad name here due to gm,s mistakes in the 80s things are turning now every major car manufacturer has a diesel passenger car slated for the us within the next few years including honda and nissan...chrysler has one in their cherokee now mebe bmw will be using the blutec diesel also
sorry for the bit of a rant but wvo/bd are viable underused alternatives.
heres a few places to look at for references on building systems and general info theres plenty more where you can find the stuff cheap
http://www.biodieselbarn.com/index.html
greasecar.com
greasel.com
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
theres also some yahoo forums on how to convert your oil burners

and yes BBQ Sam you can convert pig fat to fuel its just a bit more involved

[Jammer]

Biodiesel has many issues. Here is a story of a friend of mine. He collects fryer oil from restaurants as part of his recycling business. He makes his own biodiesel using lie and alcohol. He spent a few jingles for tanks, mixers, pumps and all the gear. He was cranking it out like a pro. He has been doing this for several years and swears it saves him a lot of money. I am sure it dose if you don't consider the cost of repairs.

Every truck and car he has used it in has had major problems. Clogged filters, won't start in cold weather, injectors and pumps by the dozen. They ain't cheap. Down time you couldn't count. Engines that blow up far from home. Bus rides back home. Towing costs. Paying employies for down time.

Just last week I see his son starting up a ford truck. It runs runs rough, smokes like a bandit and smells of KFC. He had just bought a new Dodge truck with a cummings diesel, over 30 grand. I warned him if he ran that crap in it it would be just like that Ford and the rest of the vehicles on their way to the junk pile. Well, he put the Bio to it for a couple months. It is now back at the dealership getting new filters, injectors and a new pump. The warranty dosn't cover Bio.

They also have couple of cars that run on gas, They have been runing for years with no engine problems. Yet every diesel he has had hasn't lasted 3 months without engine problems.

[Seano]

Biodiesel has many issues. Here is a story of a friend of mine. He collects fryer oil from restaurants as part of his recycling business. He makes his own biodiesel using lie and alcohol. He spent a few jingles for tanks, mixers, pumps and all the gear. He was cranking it out like a pro. He has been doing this for several years and swears it saves him a lot of money. I am sure it dose if you don't consider the cost of repairs.

Every truck and car he has used it in has had major problems. Clogged filters, won't start in cold weather, injectors and pumps by the dozen. They ain't cheap. Down time you couldn't count. Engines that blow up far from home. Bus rides back home. Towing costs. Paying employies for down time.

Just last week I see his son starting up a ford truck. It runs runs rough, smokes like a bandit and smells of KFC. He had just bought a new Dodge truck with a cummings diesel, over 30 grand. I warned him if he ran that crap in it it would be just like that Ford and the rest of the vehicles on their way to the junk pile. Well, he put the Bio to it for a couple months. It is now back at the dealership getting new filters, injectors and a new pump. The warranty dosn't cover Bio.

They also have couple of cars that run on gas, They have been runing for years with no engine problems. Yet every diesel he has had hasn't lasted 3 months without engine problems.

Exhibit A for why people who do not understand how to maintain and repair diesel engines should not own them, and why they should DEFINITELY not run questionable, homebrewed biodiesel in them.

I can change out a fuel filter in 10 minutes. Simple. I also understand why diesels are difficult to start in cold, and the hows/whys of cold weather bio use.

I buy my biodiesel from a gigantic truckstop that sells massive quantities of fuel, fuel that has to meet rigorous quality standards. Never a problem. Sounds like your friends would be much, much happier with gasoline.

[hagar]

Synthetic diesel can be made from slag coal that is almost totally useless for anything else, just lying around in big heaps. Both India and China signed agreements with South Africa to build fuel from coal and fuel from liquid natural gas plants. It's a much more viable technology than ethanol.

[IamElmerJFudd]

Welcome to the forum, Jammer. Interesting anecdote too. I hope you find other posts in the forum valuable to you and that you will add to the discourse for our mutual benefit.