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View Full Version : Norinco Model 213 safety removal and full sized grips?



texas_yankee
03-06-2012, 03:51 PM
I'm the new owner of a nice Norinco Model 213. I'd like to remove the safety on my Norinco Model 213, but the only grips I can find that might cover up the safety hole are the wood grips from the guy in the UK - and I can't see putting $100 grips on a less than $200 gun - any other suggestions?

As an alternative, I'd go with the Tokagrypt grips, IF I could find any - can anyone point me to a source for those?

THANKS!

Portholio
03-06-2012, 06:22 PM
I *think* the Tokagypt grips had a cutout for the lever safety that norinco added to their Toks back in the 90's. I got a pair wrapped away somewhere in the armory.

vz58kid
03-06-2012, 06:26 PM
Welcome to the Forum!
Some Chin. also came with wrap-around grips so those would not cover up the Hole!

texas_yankee
03-06-2012, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys!

No grips yet, but I'm making progress - I picked up a bare frame today (Tokarev Frame Only T54 Norinco) that may take some fine-tuning but should work fine with the slide and other components of the 213 I already have - and the new frame has no safety hole! I'm also going to pick up a 7.62x25 barrel and magazine - I should be able to go either way with the gun, right?

Still looking for some type of "full size" wrap-around grips that'll cover up where the safety hole used to be, and maybe give me a bit of a beavertail effect - I may end up going with those wooden grips if I can't find something else. I'd really like something like the Hogue grips with front finger grooves that I have on all of my 1911s, but I can't seem to find anything like that for the 213.

The adventure continues . . .

jarred52
03-06-2012, 09:10 PM
I wish you luck with the grips. Unfortunately, the unique attachment system of the Tok would make aftermarket grips very expensive and likely beyond profitablity with thier limited demand. If you get a 7.62 barrel, consider getting a new recoil spring from Wolf as the Chinese one that came with the 9mm may be too week for the higher pressure 7.62.

vintovka
03-06-2012, 09:11 PM
Those useless safeties sure ruin the pistols even if you cover the holes, the stupid plunger/ball divots usually show. I would think plugging the hole with a steel rod. Milling it to clear mechanism and tigging the divots and plug seams would be best solution. What do you think? FWIW back in the day I personally saw pallets of defect 213s going somewhere. mine was tossed on and i got my $ back.

texas_yankee
03-06-2012, 09:22 PM
I appreciate the suggestion on the new recoil spring for the 7.62 barrel - good idea!

The idea about plugging the hole with the steel rod might be a good idea, but not for me to do it - LOL, that kind of work is far above my skill level - I do, however have a dremel!

Why do ya think the 213s you saw had so many defects? I have a Norinco 1911 that I REALLY like - it's a great shooter with a smooth as silk trigger - why would the Norinco 213s have such a different level of quality from the Norinco 1911s?

Another question for you guys that have more experience with these guns - who is the best source for parts?

vz58kid
03-06-2012, 09:38 PM
You may have a bit of a Job ahead! If the T-54 frame is for 9mm then you will need special T 54 9mm mags that have a spacer in mags, since the 213 mags will fall out of a T 54 frame also your 213 slide is made to eject 9mm not X25 ammo and will not reliably work but maybe as a single shot!
Might need to enlarge the Eject port!

A 213 slide will not fit a T 54 frame as is unless you remove a hard protrusion roughly 1/4 in wide and 1/8 in thick from the underside where the firing pin hole is, also the extractor on any 9mm may not work proper with X25 ammo.

And last but not least many T 54s were made of Soft Steel!

Best of Luck!

texas_yankee
03-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Yep, the T-54 is a 9mm frame. Are you talking about the spacer that fits in the frame behind the magazine, or some kind of spacer in the magazine itself? Sounds like it'll be an adventure for sure !

barbarossa
03-07-2012, 12:02 AM
For what it's worth, I fabricated a thin triangular sheet steel plate to cover the safety hole in the frame of my Norinco Tokarev 213 9x19mm. Aplied a thin coat of locktite around the plate edges then attached the plate to the frame utilizing the two factory safety stop screws. Voila! You have returned your Tokarev 213 to very close to its original appearance and you don't have to weld up a damn thing nor are you out the cost of a reblue. I am continually amazed no one else seems to have stumbled on to this idiotic but 100% functional bubba solution. And it works like a charm!.

vz58kid
03-07-2012, 12:25 AM
Yep, the T-54 is a 9mm frame. Are you talking about the spacer that fits in the frame behind the magazine, or some kind of spacer in the magazine itself? Sounds like it'll be an adventure for sure !

T 54 has a Spacer in Mag itself! 213 has a narrow Mag with no spacer in mag but it is in the frame and can be removed, and these mags will not interchange between these 2 guns!

You can remove the Spacer in the 213 frame to use 54 type 9mm mags! it may be cheaper to just buy a X25 Tok!

slavcio
03-07-2012, 01:26 AM
although most americans do not like rear/fire-forward/safe arrangement there is nothing wrong with model 213 safety and short 9x19 magazines can be bought pretty cheaply at cdnn?. the 213 is great shooter with fmj ammo but with most jhps you can expect two to 3 stoppages per magazine. i would not alter the gun and just enjoy shooting it with affordable 9x19 ammo.

vz58kid
03-07-2012, 01:37 AM
Zastava M 88-A magazines will work perfectly in a 213 same size! On both the 213 and the T 54 the safeties do seem to cause problems on many down the road and the lever has been known to go from fire to safe while shooting!

But the 213 is the better of the two!!

texas_yankee
03-07-2012, 08:44 AM
T 54 has a Spacer in Mag itself! 213 has a narrow Mag with no spacer in mag but it is in the frame and can be removed, and these mags will not interchange between these 2 guns!

You can remove the Spacer in the 213 frame to use 54 type 9mm mags! it may be cheaper to just buy a X25 Tok!

LOL, looks lke there's lots to learn about these different variants, huh?? That's weird - so if I go with the T-54 frame to get rid of the safety hole, the mag I have now for the 213 won't work I'd have to use T-54 magazines - right?

And when you say "213 has a narrow Mag", are ya talking that it's narrower side-to-side, or narrower front-to-back??? Both mags are still single stack mags, right?? If the T-54 mag can handle 9mm and 7.62, and if it has a spacer in it to accommodate the shorter 9mm rounds versus the longer 7.62 rounds, I can see it being a bit longer, front to back, than the 213 9mm mags - is that what ya meant??

So, if I understand correctly, with the T-54 frame, I need to get a t-54 mag, and that mag will accommodate either 9mm with the spacer or 7.62 without the spacer - and the specer, unlike the spacer that's in the frame of the 213, is in the magazine for the T-54 - it that how it works?

Thanks very much for your patience schooling me on this !

vz58kid
03-07-2012, 10:24 AM
As i said earlier a 213 mag will fall out of a 54 frame! It is shorter front to back! A t 54 takes a reg Tok X 25 mag but these do have a spacer in back of mag since 9mm is shorter than X 25!

213 has a spacer in the gun which can be removed held in place by a pin on top!

Remember a 213 slide wont fit on a 54 frame without internally removing a piece of metal! Try to put your 213 slide on the 54 and try to rack it and it wont do so but a little!

The ejector port on both the 213 and 54 is to short to properly handle the x25 ammo! So you may need to enlargen port, also on both the extractor may need to be taken out and worked on to properly function with a x25!

Unless you hace a Metal workshop and skills you will regret this adventure and the gun will be a Franken-Bubba Tok!
I have seen many atttempts to cover up safety Holes but all looked bad!

If you want a Brand new Tok then buy a Zastava M-88 these go for about $300. these are also knows as "Baby-Toks' and are a newer design with a nice safety build into the slide. These have a original 100% factory functional safety! They come in 9mm or .40 cal and are nice and 213 mags will interchange perfectly!

texas_yankee
03-07-2012, 10:37 AM
That clears it up for me - thanks! What about getting a T-54 slide, to eliminate the requirement to remove metal from the inside of the 213's slide ??? Are they readily available?

vz58kid
03-07-2012, 11:01 AM
A slide for a 54 is hard to find and about $100. but you still cant shoot x25 with a T 54! But then you will have a 213 and a 54 both with the ugly safety also if you find a 54 slide it will be most likely stripped and needs the internals which is no fun to install!
https://www.buymilsurp.com/pistol-parts-accessories-tt33-tokarev-variations-c-3546_103.html
Dont think they have any slides but you may be better off buying a used complete T 54!

texas_yankee
03-07-2012, 11:42 AM
LOL, maybe I need to scale back on my grand plan - and just clean up the 213 and enjoy it as it is . . . . looks like a lotta work that I'm not at all experienced with at this point - that'd also save me from getting into another caliber (7.62x25) - I already have plenty of 9mm.

texas_yankee
03-07-2012, 04:24 PM
I've been cleaning and re-assembling the gun, and I'm wondering if something I'm seeing \ feeling is normal - I've got the gun put back together and it seems to operate correctly, but I'm noticing that there's A LOT of resistance when I move the slide back manually just as it engages the hammer to cock the gun - that's with the barrel and recoil spring out of the gun - lots more resistance with this gun than I feel when I operate one of my 1911s. The engagement surfaces appear very smooth and well worn - almost like a trigger job - it's NOT a new gun.

I haven't oiled the gun yet, nor have I shot it yet. When I take the slide off and hold the trigger back and operate the hammer, it doesn't appear to bind on anything, but it is stiff. The trigger assembly is completely seated into the frame. The gun has obviously been shot a bunch before I bought it - maybe the previous user just replaced the hammer spring?

vz58kid
03-07-2012, 10:23 PM
I think you made a wise choice as far as what you describe most likely will work better after a good lube!
All of the safeties on these guns are basically useless and many will interfere with the gun and many tear up, the Yugo M-57 is a great and desired Tok but the aftermarket safeties on these seem to function and look better than any, but seem to be the biggest prob with these messing up!

The 213 is a better gun than a T 54!

RandyP
03-07-2012, 11:34 PM
The resistance when pulling the slide and cocking the Hammer is normal on the TOK.. Everyone I have is like that and nothing like my 1911.. I think its just the way it hits the hammer.. The 1911 has more leverage and operates easier and smoothly.. My Opinion
RLP

texas_yankee
03-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks again everyone for all of the guidance - LOL, I'm sure I'll have more questions. I re-assembled the gun yesterday (incluging the safety mechanism), oiled it, and all that's left now is a trip to the range - I appreciate the feedback about the resistance when racking the slide - man, it's a workout! I like an idea I read about thumbing the hammer back first and then racking the slide to chamber a round - seems far easier.

I'll keep looking for a set of those wrap-around grips (Tokagypt ?), but they seem to be pretty scarce.

I originally bought this Tokarev because it's a Norinco, and I'm really happy with my Norinco 1911 - now that I'm learning more about the Tokarev platform, I'd like to expand my Tokarev collection - I'm looking for shooters, not necessarily collectables - which Tokarev variants should I start looking for if I want one with no safety? Not a must have for me, but the idea of having one that can switch back and forth (easily) between 9mm and 7.72x25 is appealing.

Looking forward to any suggestions - thanks again!

vz58kid
03-08-2012, 11:12 AM
It is best to pull Hammer before racking the Slide! Told you the resistance is normal!
There are no Toks Military use which were made with a safety! The only way to get one with no Safety is to get a very early non import Military issue one or a bring back and since these saw use in WW2 or other conflicts these are very expensive.

There are a few models which were made which had a Factory safety installed before being imported like the Norincos also there were the Yugo M-70 Models which were imported and these did have a factory safety installed which is excellent!

The only Tok which was Newly made and designed is the Zastava M-88 (Baby Tok) which was newly Made in the late 80s and it was designed with a excellent Factory Safety and is a compact version!

The M 88 is by many called a Commercial Version, which it really isnt! It was and still is used By Police as well as in some instances issued for Combat and saw much use in the Mess in the 90s in the Balkan wars!

There were some 7.62 x 25 Toks which were sold as a marketing ploy with a 9mm barrel and 9mm mags with a spacer and some folks thus can use either caliber, but still the extractor may need to be taken out and have Metal removed to work 100% with 9mm and thus reducing reliabilty with X 25!

Same with a CZ 52 these are 7.62x25 a few were sold with a 9mm barrel and some mags with spacers to use 9mm, but there again in order to work 100 reliably one had to grind down the extractor!

But there again i would never alter a Gun or the extractor to use a different cal. since it then is no longer a 100% reliable, but to each his own!

A lot of the X 25 Milsurp ammo is really bad and full of duds or cracked necks etc... and this ammo has been extremely hard to find and prices have gone way way up, S&B and others do make modern ammo and it is very good and not to exp.

About the best milsurp is the Chin x25 which can still be found at shows sometimes even though it is no longer imported!

The wrap around grips wont cover up the holes on the Chin. but these grips are bulky and useless to me and were put on due to import restrictions just like many guns had grip added with the Thunb-rest! My T 54 which i bought NIB in the 90s came with those UGLY BULKY Grips!

The Chin have been banned from import since the late 80's about 3 weeks ago i found a NIB Norinco 213 Tok in Box with papers and had never been fired, the dude said he bought a couple in 1980 and never used one and sold it to me! LOL!


Also about 2 yrs ago. same story. found a Zastava M-88-A NIB with Box etc..which was imprted in the 80s and the dealer never used or fired it
turns out the Serial is all 00000 and the the Number which is between 1 and 3, so i got one of the first to make it here and it is one of my favorites!

The hottest Tok is the Yugo M 57 which have only been imported for about 2 1/2 yrs and these hold 9 rounds of x 25 instead of 8 like the rest and thus have a longer grip and are easier to handle, some of these are Mint and are very nice, normal Tok mags wont fit and spare ones were going for about $50. but lately more mags have been imported which were actually made new by Zastave since there was such a demand here, however these are commercial mags and dont have the lanyard loop on them but sell for about $25-$30.

The safety on these(aftermarket) seems and looks to be the best one out there, but has also been the No 1 problem with not functioning of the gun due to sloppy workmanship on mine all i needed to due was to take the grip off and file grip down a little n the inside, since the grips on these were filed down in 1 corner 1/4 in to create room for safety lever!

jarred52
03-08-2012, 02:22 PM
I originally bought this Tokarev because it's a Norinco, and I'm really happy with my Norinco 1911 - now that I'm learning more about the Tokarev platform, I'd like to expand my Tokarev collection - I'm looking for shooters, not necessarily collectables - which Tokarev variants should I start looking for if I want one with no safety? Not a must have for me, but the idea of having one that can switch back and forth (easily) between 9mm and 7.72x25 is appealing.

Looking forward to any suggestions - thanks again![/QUOTE]

There have never been any large quantity of Tokarevs imported without the added safetys. As for looking for any version without an added safety - stand in a long line! Seriously, if you can find one of any variation that is reasonably priced, get it. Most of these would be "bring backs", a few others were imported prior to the prohibition of importation of military weapons, and some others "walked" across the Canadian border.

texas_yankee
03-09-2012, 08:43 AM
Thanks for schooling me on this stuff, guys - great information about all the Toks - and thanks for the guidance about trying to find one without a safety - aside from a SMG and a mid-level AR, I'm not into expensive guns - I like shooters and learning about the different platforms - I'm thinking now that sice I'm only into this one for $170, I might just experiment with it - take off the bluing, bead-blast it, put on a light coating of oil to prevent rust, and see if I like it like that - if not, I can have it re-blued or parked.

I am still intrigued with those guns that came out as 7.62x25 but came with the 9mm barrel and mag - but the point you made, vz58kid, about the extractor makes sense - sounds like a problem - maybe I'll look into getting one of those Zavasta M-88s.

vz58kid
03-09-2012, 10:20 AM
The X25 that came with 9mm mag and barrel was mainly the CZ 52 but it was a Market Ploy! They also have some 213 Toks with a High cap mag and a fatter grip!

Need to know anything else about Toks,CZ 52 or other Guns just Holler!

texas_yankee
03-09-2012, 12:21 PM
Thanks again - so much great information - I would have gotten snagged with the marketing ploy and been wondering why the thing didn't eject correctly with the different barrels.

I think, for now, what I'm gonna do, is remove the bluing this weekend, get the gun bead blasted, and see how I like it naked. I'd still like to figure out a way to cover up the safety hole after I remove the safety - I've been looking for some type of grip that'd accomplish that, but no luck so far - maybe if I strip it down to the bare frame, I could get someone to weld up the holes and then sand it down flat . .. .

vz58kid
03-09-2012, 03:39 PM
Tig welding and sanding will cover up the holes but if you have someone do it it may cost some $$$! Also remember these Norincos have not been imported in many years like in the 80s and there wont be anymore coming in ever, so whatever you do do change its looks will decrease value and parts wibb be continuing to go up in price!

Do take a look at a Zastava M 88 they come in 9mm or .40 and are the real deal and these were designed with a Factory safety original to the Gun!

vz58kid
03-09-2012, 03:53 PM
Just so you know none of these Toks or any of the Old Military Guns were designed to function proper with Hollow Points, some may or may not work depending even on the H Point, but this can be easily solved if one knows how!

vz58kid
03-09-2012, 04:02 PM
PS! A Blue Job is not cheap and you may not find someone locally to do it, but you can do your own use Liquid Oxpho Blue by Brownells i have tried them all and this is the best Product out there!

Almost as good but not quite is G-96 Liquid Blue usually sold only by Sports Authority Stores but the G-96 paste blue is not good, most Blueing solutions will work OK on small parts but the whole gun is another story!

texas_yankee
03-09-2012, 09:23 PM
I think for now I'm gonna try removing the existing bluing (vinegar bath), then either bead-blast or rough up the surface with steel wool, and leave it bare metal with some gun oil - rubbed all over the gun and then wiped off well - I can always send it off to get it re-blued.

texas_yankee
03-11-2012, 08:54 PM
Been working on getting the black off the gun this weekend - had all the parts soaking in white vinegar most of Sunday - it's getting down to the bare steel how I want, but I don't think the black coating is bluing - any chance it'd be paint??

After I get it all stripped down (probably leave it soaking overnight), I'm gonna try some SteelStick stuff from the J-B Weld people to fill in the holes for the safety and two screw holes - the SteelStick looks to be a lot easier to work with, sets up in 3-5 minutes, and advertises as drillable in 60 minutes - it has the consistency of a putty.

Hit the Ft. Worth gun show this Saturday - wouldn't ya know it - not one freaking Tokarev of any kind !!

vz58kid
03-11-2012, 09:42 PM
Never got your pictures of the other Tok!

Chinese never used paint only Blue and some were made in Chrome! Buy some Blue Remover JB weld in my opinion wont hold up and is a waste in this situation, Toks are not easy to find at shows!

texas_yankee
03-11-2012, 10:34 PM
I'll pick up some Blue Remover. Check for a PM about the pictures.

maggie
03-12-2012, 12:32 AM
Copes has some M88 a 's for $ 279 on their site, 3-11-12.

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 08:47 AM
Saw that and is a good price but most likely these still come only with 1 mag, when i got mine 3 yrs ago NOBODY had spare mags anywhere not even the Importer EEA, but last yr they finally were able to get more in!

At the time i didnt know these also took standard (narrow) 213 mags, these also come in .40 S&W but i wish they would make these in 7.62 X 25 but dont!

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 09:07 AM
I think I'm gonna pick up another Norinco 213, and this second one (for me) comes with some extra mags - I really like how thin they are, and if they perform anything like my Norinco 1911, they're gonna be sweet shooters. I was amazed at how simple they are to detail strip.

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 09:10 AM
Still waiting on pictures! Then you will have 2 guns with the HATED safeties! LOL!

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Can I send you the pictures to your email? If so, please PM me with your email address. Thanks!

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 11:42 AM
I just send it again for the 3rd time in 3 days! LOL

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 12:08 PM
WOW - sorry - never saw those earlier PMs - just responded to your PM, and sent you an email with some pics. Let me know what ya think . . .

Clyde
03-12-2012, 04:07 PM
JMO, but the best way to fill a safety hole is to tap the hole, smear it with LocTite, screw in a suitable screw and after the LocTite sets up. file/grind the excess length of screw down inside and out to get it flush with the frame surface. I think the OxPho blue creme works better than the liquid.

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 04:32 PM
Hi Clyde - thanks - that's what I've read - but it's beyond my expertise. The J-B Weld approach appears to be easier - but as I'm finding out this afternoon, that stuff isn't that easy to work with, either.

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 09:50 PM
Classic Arms has some Tokarevs for sale - Romanians, chrome Romanians, and Polish.

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 10:26 PM
Just got in, those pictures look good and seems the mags are original, the Holster and pouches are nice and not easy or cheap to find the gun looks great and i would also buy it for that!

One thing i am Cautious about is what if the dude keeps your Cash and dont send the Gun? Can and sometimes happens if he is a long term member there with a high post count and you are also a member there you should be fine!

If you try to remove the safety you will decrease value a lot and then there still are those safety Notches! LOL!

Classic will Chrome anything never buy a Chrome Gun unless it is Factory original and the Chinese did some 213 in Chrome Limited but they are hard to find!

You can always get a WW2 Russian which seem to go for about 1K if in decent shape and dont have to worry about the safety if a bring back or early import, my Brother has 4 of these!

Best Wishes!

texas_yankee
03-12-2012, 10:57 PM
I'm a cautious guy, too, but it's only $200 (real money, and a lot of money, but not all the money in the world) and the guy has been on that board with well over 1,000 posts, so he's been around for a while - I'd prefer a face-to-face, but he's in a different state. I'm paying him with a Postal Money Order, so if he doesn't deliver, those PO Investigators will be after him - and I've heard that they are truly pit bulls.

I think with this second one, I'm gonna leave it in original condition with the safety and all - but for the other one I have (the one we've been taking about here) I plugged the safety hole with some J-B Weld this afternoon and I'm gonna sand it down smooth tomorrow afternoon - I have a feeling that it's gonna look fine.

I'd like one of those WW2 Russians, but not for $1000 - I have too many grandkids to spoil!

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 11:17 PM
Great! Just wanted you to be careful and hope you get the other one soon! Seems like a great deal !

Clyde
03-12-2012, 11:31 PM
I'm a cautious guy, too, but it's only $200 (real money, and a lot of money, but not all the money in the world) and the guy has been on that board with well over 1,000 posts, so he's been around for a while - I'd prefer a face-to-face, but he's in a different state. I'm paying him with a Postal Money Order, so if he doesn't deliver, those PO Investigators will be after him - and I've heard that they are truly pit bulls.

I think with this second one, I'm gonna leave it in original condition with the safety and all - but for the other one I have (the one we've been taking about here) I plugged the safety hole with some J-B Weld this afternoon and I'm gonna sand it down smooth tomorrow afternoon - I have a feeling that it's gonna look fine.

I'd like one of those WW2 Russians, but not for $1000 - I have too many grandkids to spoil!

$1K for a WWII Rsski TT-33? You suggesting my RVN Bring-back may be worth a grand? It is a 1945-dated Itsvesk...

vz58kid
03-12-2012, 11:45 PM
Depending on yr. condition etc... 1 K is about the going rate for 1 in very good shape, prices have gone crazy in the last few yrs! I have seen ones Bubba got a hold of or rough ones gor for much less than that!

Condition is the key!

texas_yankee
03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
Well, the J-B Weld did a nice job of filling in the safety holes - I have it sanded down nice and smooth, including the inside of the frame, and the gun functions correctly on dry fire - hopefully, it'll get some range time this weekend. I have been unable to find any of the wrap-around grips, so I think I'm gonna get the wood grips from the guy in England (http://www.marschalgrips.com/tt33wr/tt33wr.htm) - not sure what color yet - I'd really like some kind of rubber wrap-arounds, but I haven't found anything I like - closest thing is the Hogue hand-all - not really what I want though.

vz58kid
03-15-2012, 02:15 PM
Glad to hear it worked out! I hate to admit it but seems i was wrong, it does seem Marschalgrips (certain ones) will cover up the safety holes!

I am or try to be a Purist, same with my cars either original equipment and no after market parts!

There are no factory Grips even wrap-arounds that will cover those safety holes, i had a pair that came with my 54 model and it had the safety, but i hated the grips!

Did you get the other 1 yet??
Those grips are not cheap!

texas_yankee
03-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Still working on getting the deal done on the other gun - looks like it'll happen, but it might take a few more days.

Not only are the grips I found expensive, but it's a few months from the time you submit an order till they arrive - and I'm all about instant gratification.

I did talk with a guy at a gun show last weekend that modifies the Glock polymer frames - he also has capabilities to modify grips, so that might be a way to go - but it, too, isn't cheap.

$100 grips on a $170 gun - something wrong with that . . . .

vz58kid
03-15-2012, 03:01 PM
You are right something is wrong with grips that cost more than 1/2 the gun, but its your $ and gun! The Marschal grips dude did have problems with some of his grips cracking and a lot of people were pi--ed and had a hell of a time getting it worked out.

PS! Be careful as to what Gun/Scrubber/cleaner you use, yrs ago i cleaned my CZ 50 and a drop splilled on a grip and started smoking and eating it but i ran in under water and that episode schocked me.

They also now make a Plastic Safe Scrubber! (alledgedly)

texas_yankee
03-15-2012, 04:00 PM
Plastic Gun Scrubber - yep, I had some of that - $7 or so a can - bought it for my Glocks - until a Glock gun smith (The Glocksmith) at a gun show told me that he just uses plan old carb cleaner for $2 a can at WalMart - works fine - none of my Glocks have melted yet. And it obviously works well on my steel guns - gets all the crud right off.

Smoking grips - that must have been interesting !!!

vz58kid
03-15-2012, 04:05 PM
About had a Stroke, remember these gips were made in 1950, Most (?) Modern plasic should be fine but why do you think they all came out with Plastic Safe Cleaner ?

texas_yankee
03-15-2012, 04:31 PM
"why do you think they all came out with Plastic Safe Cleaner ?" - a marketing spin - another way to milk us . . . .

vz58kid
03-15-2012, 05:31 PM
Enough complaints about the Plastic on old Guns Melting, some of these old grips are expensive and hard to find! One drop of the Stuff caused smoking and bubbling, can you imagine if i would have sprayed the whole gun including grips?
I dont want to think about it!

texas_yankee
03-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Well, I had my new Tokarev out to the shooting least today - WHAT A NICE SHOOTER !! No problems at all, it felt great, and it was very accurate.

I think all I need now, at least for this one, is to order the grips . . .

Thanks for the help and advice along the way, guys . . .

vz58kid
03-18-2012, 09:38 PM
Great, they are great Guns! Which 1 are you ordering the $100/ grips for? So the grips are for the new one? I thought you were going to leave the safety as is on it!

texas_yankee
03-18-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm getting the grips (probably) for the one I already have without the safety - I hate that wait though - the guy sodesn't even alswer email questions about the grips - the other one is still "in process" - the seller wants the money in hand before he ships - I'm a trusting guy . . .

texas_yankee
03-22-2012, 04:34 PM
Well, I did it again - closed the deal on the second Norinco Tokarev 9mm and it's on the way to me now - then, this morning, I saw another Norinco Tokarev, in 7.62x25 - WITH THE WRAP AROUND GRIPS and four magazines - the gun's in great shape - so I bought it! I'm gonna pick up some 7.62x25 ammo and shoot it this weekend.


Two questions:


I may just leave this one as it is, maybe swap the grips with the 9mm, but if I wanted to make this 7.62x25 a 9mm, too, I'd need a 9mm barrel, a 9mm barrel bushing, an extractor, and a spacer for the mag well to accommodate 9mm magazines, or 7.62x25 magazines with spacers inside of the magazines - right?? Any decent sources for those items?

Comparing the the ejection ports on the two guns, the 7.62x25 gun has a bigger ejection port - it'd be fine with the shorter 9mm cases, right?

Thanks!

Bill Akins
03-23-2012, 10:26 PM
I had a problem with my 7.62x25 Tokarev wherein my thumb would put the safety on when it recoiled in my hand. So I removed the safety lever entirely and that fixed that problem since it is perfectly safe to carry it on the half cock notch if chambered and then quick and easy to fire by just pulling the hammer all the way back. (I know, I know, some might dispute that being safe, but it's safe enough for me.) But then I wanted to cover the holes like you want to.

Here's the easiest answer to your problem. Just remove the safety, then like I did, cut yourself out a piece of thin flat steel that covers the holes and then contour that piece to fit close to your grip. Then drill two holes in that piece that correspond to the two existing screw holes in the frame and use the screws that previous held your safety in to hold it to the frame. Or if you need a little extra screw length because of the thickness of the metal cover, just get a couple of slightly longer screws. The cover piece I made kind of looks like an alien's face with the two screw heads being the eyes Lol. Still need to blue it. Then it will hardly be noticeable. Here's some pics of my Tokarev for you to see what I'm talking about.

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/40861/2004038030099763970S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/43532/2071412630099763970S600x600Q85.jpg

The one I covered the safety holes is in the bottom of this pic. Other Tokarev above it is my rare hi cap Tokarev in 9mm, which is framed on either side by my Czech CZ52 and Egyptian Helwan (Beretta 1951 copy).
http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/42427/2125831230099763970S600x600Q85.jpg

Again, one with safety holes covered is in bottom of this pic, other Tokarev above it is my hi cap 9mm version which is too rare/valuable now to modify since no more Norinco's can be imported to the U.S. But since I bought my other 7.62x25 Tokarev back in the early '90's when they were about $100.00 each, no problem with me modifying that one to remove the safety and cover the holes.
http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/43275/2197331950099763970S600x600Q85.jpg

As you can see, the cover plate I made, I filed and contoured to go right up against the top rear corner of grip. But it clears grip by a hair.
Works great.

Easiest, quickest way to cover the useless safety holes, and no welding.

Hope this helped you out.




.

vz58kid
03-23-2012, 10:37 PM
No offense, but to me the above look Ugly!

Bill Akins
03-23-2012, 10:57 PM
No offense, but to me the above look Ugly!

No offense taken.

Probably the reason you think it looks ugly is because the cover plate hasn't been blued yet so it visually sticks out like a sore thumb right now.
Once it is blued you will hardly notice it.

My cover plate fix works great and I don't have to worry about the safety inadvertently engaging or disengaging either in the holster or on my thumb upon recoil. The safety was badly placed. Would inadvertently go to safe when I was shooting it because my thumb would hit it under recoil. Glad I removed it. The original Russian Tokarev's did not have a manual safety at all. Ivan used the half cock notch as a safety, just like I do now. U.S. import laws require a safety so they had to put safeties on them even though it does not need one. No welding, nor weld filing, nor refinishing of the pistol using my fix, no custom grips to buy.

Don't you think the original safety lever looked ugly too? Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When it comes to firearms, I'd rather have form follow function than have form follow beauty. This is a functional fix and an easy one. Took me less than a half hour to cut the cover plate out, contour file it, and drill it. And didn't cost me anything other than a little piece of thin flat steel I had in my scrap metal pile. Easy peezy and it works great. I happen to like its looks and it will look better and be almost unnoticeable when I blue it, but again, each to their own. I offer it here as one possible solution to the original poster's problem.

What do you suggest as a cheaper, easier or better fix (besides welding or custom fabricating new grips) for covering the safety holes?



.

vz58kid
03-24-2012, 12:09 AM
Well, I did it again - closed the deal on the second Norinco Tokarev 9mm and it's on the way to me now - then, this morning, I saw another Norinco Tokarev, in 7.62x25 - WITH THE WRAP AROUND GRIPS and four magazines - the gun's in great shape - so I bought it! I'm gonna pick up some 7.62x25 ammo and shoot it this weekend.


Two questions:


I may just leave this one as it is, maybe swap the grips with the 9mm, but if I wanted to make this 7.62x25 a 9mm, too, I'd need a 9mm barrel, a 9mm barrel bushing, an extractor, and a spacer for the mag well to accommodate 9mm magazines, or 7.62x25 magazines with spacers inside of the magazines - right?? Any decent sources for those items?

Comparing the the ejection ports on the two guns, the 7.62x25 gun has a bigger ejection port - it'd be fine with the shorter 9mm cases, right?

Thanks!

You are correct in what you need, you might be able to do without the spacers in mags and the extractor, but it MAY not be 100% reliable!
Dont know of any sources for these parts but maybe from a fellow member!

Are you related to "Bubba"? Or are you a "Bubba" in Training? Saw you talking about a Compemsator for a Tok in another Thread, these dont serve any pratical purpose but to lighten youre wallet!

vz58kid
03-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Yes Bill all the aftermarket safeties look ugly as Hell, the worst are on my Rom. the 1 on my Polish looks better and the Yugo looks the best but they all can mess up!

I dont really know of a solution but to buy one without the safety, but i dont think it is worth it, at least not to me!

texas_yankee
03-24-2012, 08:12 AM
Hi Guys - thanks for all of the great feedback on my Tokarev questions - what is it about these guns - they keep following me home !!!

I am OK at this point with my fix for the removed safety - J-B Weld filling in the holes and sanding it smooth. The "stick" version of J-B Weld that I used (thought it would be easier to work with) has black and grey components that ya mash together - the resulting goo has a darker tint than I'd prefer - I'd like it to match the gun's bare steel, but that project is still in progress.

To each his own on the fix for a removed safety - I like your idea about the cover plate - as long as you like YOUR fix, it's all good. I'm wondering, instead of screws, if some kind of smooth-headed rivets or something like that would work?

I'm still thinking about the OEM compensator - I talked to the manufacturer and I could get one without the black oxide coating so it'd match up better with my bare steel gun - still thinking about it . . . .

I may just leave the latest Tok I bought (a Norinco Model 54 in 7.62 KSI Pomona CA) as it is and not worry about converting it to 9mm - decisions, decisions, decisions . . .

I never thought of myself as a Bubba, but maybe I'm getting there - I grew up in NYC and Florida, never had any guns till I got to Texas 25 years ago - now, I've got the sickness real bad - AKs, ARs, Glocks, 1911, Stoeger Lugers, a lone revolver, Toks, and even a machine gun - and so much ammo that my house leans . . . .

vz58kid
03-24-2012, 12:14 PM
Youre right, to each his own! Wondering why you want a Comp on a Tok? Didnt you say that you didnt think it was worth spending a $110 on grips for a Tok.

You know you need to get a new threaded barrel for the Comp also surely you know the cost? Once you got a treaded barrel then you can also use a Silencer for those Covert Ops!

texas_yankee
03-24-2012, 10:05 PM
Duh, I didn't know I'd need a threaded barrel for the comp - thanks for mentioning that !! I thought it was just a replacement for the bushing. LOL, maybe I don't like the idea of a comp so much any more !

BTW - I checked with the manufacturer - the compensator for the 9mm does NOT require a threaded barrel.

vz58kid
03-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Heck for all the money you talk about spending on yours you are almost at 1/2 the price of a WW2 Tok without a safety!

PS! You like/have AKs, you dont need a Buffer, these are useless and do not do anything but lighten your wallet!

Bill Akins
03-25-2012, 07:34 AM
I'm wondering, instead of screws, if some kind of smooth-headed rivets or something like that would work?

Back in 1976 I was a wing riveter/sheet metal mechanic for Piper aircraft. I turned out about one complete wing (just one complete left or right wing, not both wings) a day. I know about rivets, countersunk flush head, round head, cherry rivet, pop rivets, etc. I shot thousands of rivets. You would need a pneumatic rivet gun to rivet a solid rivet. Plus you would need a custom made bucking bar to get at the tail of the rivet to buck it down while riveting it with the pneumatic gun. Pretty hard to get a bucking bar inside the pistol where those safety screw holes are and get any pressure against the tail of the rivet so you can get a good bucktail on the rivet. Very hard to do even using solid aluminum rivets much less steel ones.

If you used a cherry rivet or a pop rivet they wouldn't be as strong as the screws and a pop rivet would be aluminum instead of steel like the screws are. Plus you would have the hole in your rivet that the rod goes through to buck the tail. So if you used cherry rivet or pop rivets you'd still have holes. I guess you could dab some JB weld over the holes and sand them, but an aluminum rivet wouldn't be as strong as the steel screws.

Trust me, if you decide to make a cover plate like I did, just use round head screws to hold it on, that go into the existing threaded holes that are already there. The screw heads aren't that large. Just replicate what I did and showed you if you do decide to go with a cover plate.

There is one alternative that I didn't use in case I ever wanted to remove the cover plate and reinstall the safety if I ever sold the pistol (which isn't likely). And that is to make a cover plate and then just put some JB weld on the back of it and epoxy it to the frame without using any screws. But if you ever want to take it off, you will have to heat it with a torch to liquify the JB weld epoxy to remove the cover plate. You could do it that way if you don't like the screws holding it on.

I also agree that it's a waste of money to put a comp on a Tokarev. And if you did buy a longer threaded barrel for the comp thinking you could use a silencer too.....that isn't going to work very well. The 7.62x25 Tokarev has a very sharp report. Much sharper than a 9mm and doesn't silence so well as a 9mm does. Plus depending on what silencer you used, you might also have to get a stronger recoil spring. Too much monkey business to go through for little to no gain.

I can understand removing the safety lever and installing a cover plate like I did, but I personally wouldn't mess with it further after that.


.

texas_yankee
03-25-2012, 08:36 AM
Sound advice guys - thanks! Aside from a few replacement parts, if I can find them, I'll probably leave the guns as they are for now . . . LOL, maybe do some learning more about them before I make plans for doing stuff to them !!

vz58kid
03-25-2012, 10:45 AM
Bill, Thanks for the info on Rivets, learned a Lot!
Tex just buy any old WW2 Tok and you wont have to worry about a safety,Grips,another barrel or anything else and might save you some $ in the long run!

texas_yankee
03-25-2012, 11:44 AM
"might save you some $ in the long run" - I'm great with the saving money stuff, but then I wouldn't have all the fun I'm having learning all this neat stuff about Toks from you guys !

texas_yankee
03-26-2012, 09:25 AM
I was out shooting the new-to-me 7.62x25 Tok tis weeknd - aside from a few problems wit the asfety, it ran great. I thought I was getting light primer strikes of failure to go into battery, and then I looked at the safety - it got loose - it moved off of the Fire position just enough to case the trigger to not work right. Rather than removing the safety, first I'm just gonna try a bit of locktite for the screw that holds safety mechanism together - but all in all a nice shoooting gun.

I still need to pick up a few parts, detail strip it, and clean it thoroughly.

Bill Akins
03-26-2012, 09:31 AM
.......and then I looked at the safety - it got loose - it moved off of the Fire position just enough to case the trigger to not work right.

That's exactly what mine was doing. When recoiling, the knuckle of my thumb would just barely touch the safety lever and that was enough to move it just enough off the fire position to where the pistol would not fire. The safety lever is so lame that a few times it moved on its own from recoil just enough off the fire position to cause the trigger to not work, even without my thumb contacting it! A "safety lever" indeed! More like a "danger, gonna get you killed lever". A dangerous thing to have happen if in a life or death situation. That's why I removed the safety lever entirely and installed my homemade cover plate. No more problems with operation after that.



.

vz58kid
03-26-2012, 09:34 AM
I was out shooting the new-to-me 7.62x25 Tok tis weeknd - aside from a few problems wit the asfety, it ran great. I thought I was getting light primer strikes of failure to go into battery, and then I looked at the safety - it got loose - it moved off of the Fire position just enough to case the trigger to not work right. Rather than removing the safety, first I'm just gonna try a bit of locktite for the screw that holds safety mechanism together - but all in all a nice shoooting gun.

I still need to pick up a few parts, detail strip it, and clean it thoroughly.







What Model Tok is this 7.62X25?

texas_yankee
03-26-2012, 10:23 AM
" A dangerous thing to have happen if in a life or death situation." - oh yeah, but in my case, I won't be using this gun for concealed carry or home defense - just for recreational shooting - so the safety problems are more of an annoyance - I am, however, considering using the 9mm Tok (I've permanently removed that safety and plugged the holes) for a carry gun - it's so slim and easy to handle.

The 7.62x25 Tok is a Norinco imported by KSI.

vz58kid
03-26-2012, 10:35 AM
You do know that a Tok carried with 1 in a Chamber and the Hammer on 1/2 Cock (which many consider WRONGLY as a Safety, which it isnt!) can still Fire if Dropped!
A Carrry Gun with an empty Chamber is useless!

This can happen and did when a Tok fell of a Dresser and discharged killing a 2 yr. old.
Happened last yr. and was all over the Net!

texas_yankee
03-26-2012, 10:46 AM
I don't carry any of my guns with 1 in the chamber - LOL, not even the Glocks - just a personal preference - I know all the arguments on either side of this issue - my guns, my choice on how I carry, IMHO.

But thanks for the guidance!

rwt101
12-25-2013, 04:11 PM
I don't carry any of my guns with 1 in the chamber - LOL, not even the Glocks - just a personal preference - I know all the arguments on either side of this issue - my guns, my choice on how I carry, IMHO.

But thanks for the guidance!

I know this is an old thread, but I am looking for the safety and the spring and ball for the 213. If anyone has one to sell I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Bob T

Bill Akins
12-26-2013, 09:18 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I am looking for the safety and the spring and ball for the 213. If anyone has one to sell I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Bob T

Check with Numrich or Sarco to see if they have any.



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Doby
12-26-2013, 11:17 PM
Post on the WTB WTT Board here. You might be surprised at what turns up. Or you could just get a plastic plug and have no further worries, and darned few malfunctions if any.