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oswald carcano?

3K views 22 replies 15 participants last post by  Mybusa 
#1 ·
would someone please tell me the exact model he used.

was it mannlicher carcano 91/38?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Oswald did it, no question about it. There is a History Channel episode on these where computer engineers, etc., reconstructed a 3D computer model of Dealey Plaza and tracked the bullets from Kennedy and guess where each of the three trajectories had the bullets coming from? Further, this analysis showed that it would have been impossible for anyone on the grassy knoll to have shot Kennedy from the front without shooting through the front windshield of the vehicle. Also, it wasn't that difficult of a shot. I could have put at least a round or two on target with my Clark .45 Colt Series 70. One is better off relying upon a Road Runner cartoon for an understanding of the laws of physics than Oliver Stone Costner "movie" for information on the JFK assasination. Jim Garrison was also a well known megalomanical loon DA, as per people I know who worked for him during that period of time. He had a better chance of successfully prosecuting a sasquatch for the conspiracy instead of Clay Shaw.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Interestingly, it was one of the black El Duce honor guard rifles per Hobbes.
 
#11 ·
Oswald did it, no question about it. There is a History Channel episode on these where computer engineers, etc., reconstructed a 3D computer model of Dealey Plaza and tracked the bullets from Kennedy and guess where each of the three trajectories had the bullets coming from? Further, this analysis showed that it would have been impossible for anyone on the grassy knoll to have shot Kennedy from the front without shooting through the front windshield of the vehicle. Also, it wasn't that difficult of a shot. I could have put at least a round or two on target with my Clark .45 Colt Series 70. One is better off relying upon a Road Runner cartoon for an understanding of the laws of physics than Oliver Stone Costner "movie" for information on the JFK assasination. Jim Garrison was also a well known megalomanical loon DA, as per people I know who worked for him during that period of time. He had a better chance of successfully prosecuting a sasquatch for the conspiracy instead of Clay Shaw.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Interestingly, it was one of the black El Duce honor guard rifles per Hobbes.
Careful buster! Another conspiracy theory claims that a secret service agent shot JFK from behind with a .45 caliber 1911/A1 pistol...
 
#7 ·
oswald

there is todays news secret papers on consperacy.
I went to a professors seminar on oswalds shooting at Dean college in Franklin Mass.80yrds was maxim range.we talked an I sugested the first shot missed because of the scope and that he shot the other two shots with the sights.that would account for timing and he had pictures of the knoll with the camera man and no others in back ground.consperacy was bull s**t.:confused:--:D
 
#9 · (Edited)
I have seen copies of Oswald's range book online - his USMC shooting scores.
He was a good rifle shot, better than the "conspiracy" folks give him credit for.
( He scored 48 and 49 of 50 possible at 200 yards using a Garand.)
He chose the Carcano over several other rifles for sale in the same Klien's ad, so I believe he was at least familiar with the capability of the rifle.
The Carcano also had a bad reputation, and I'm sure many of you owners know it is undeserved.

IIRC, the scope was side mounted - he could have used open sights easily at 80-100 yards.

FWIW.

mark
 
#16 ·
Hambone, Carcano is right.

He provided you with a reference, Ruggero Belogi's book "Silenziosi fedeli".

To that you can add:

http://www.armietiro.it/edisport/ar...08931d861a1a8d1fc125707c0033e61e?OpenDocument

(note the difference in quality of finish versus C2766)

It is also confirmed by the recent book by Pettinelli and DiGiorgio:

http://www.edisport.it/edisport/com...liitalianiRIVISTAPROFILOGENERALE?OpenDocument

Search this Forum's archives and you will find more discussions with details about additional indirect evidence (absolut lack of any original documentation or memory about use of any other rifle, and as mentioned above abysmal difference in quality of the finish).
 
#17 · (Edited)
Thank you Dmala. I've never been much on "because I say so" citation ;) Is this the totality of the documentation? Where did Hobbs get his information? As a K98k collector, skepticism is necessary, given the prevalence of fakery. The existence of something in a museum, as we know, does not make it right. On the K98k side, there have been fantasy rifles created and stories created to go along with them. Is there any other documentation of these rifles or carbines? Do you feel this carbine is original without question? Even the article seems to address skepticism, anticipating it. Thanks again for the links.
regards,
HB
 
#19 ·
Where did Hobbs get his information? HB
I do not know but I can make a subjective guess. I have the highest respect (and friendship) for Hobbs. He pioneered the research on Carcanos in the US, at a time when they were most disregarded, by personally examining a very large number of Carcanos and accessing the few literature references available. Only recently authors outside the USAt that time the availability of written documents and books from Italy was extremely limited, and the few publications available were most often general overviews with little reference to source documents. It was known that the "Moschettieri" had black cav. carbines, which nobody in the US (and probably very very few in Italy) had seen in detail at that time. When Hobbs noted that black stocked short rifles cal. 6.5x52 were not isolated examples, but a distinct batch within the imports, he may have deducted that they were issued to the "Moschettieri". If that's what happened, I would consider it a reasonable deduction considering the data he had available. However now there is more information available.
 
#20 ·
Thanks DMala. I was collecting Italian militaria and weapons when the only decent material was Italian reference, which I own. There were no texts that we were aware of here on the Carcano of any real significance other than the Hobbs book, which I have. He's a fine fellow and even that book was incredibly enlightening for its time. Even today, most collectors in the US of Italian militaria do not know the true difference between a WW2 M.33 helmet and postwar, and WW2 tendo telo from postwar.

As for these "El Duce" carbines, is there anything in the way of period documentation on the specifics, other than a couple examples? Sometimes fakes imitate fakes. Americans don't realize the level of proficiency and extent of fakery regarding Italian artifacts, particularly MVSN and RSI. There is a chap quite "revered" on an American militaria forum that persistently and regularly peddles fake Italian RSI and MVSN material on epay.
 
#22 ·
i have a question..... I am not familiar at all with Italian rifles although my granddad has one that is supposedly the same model as the one oswald used.... can someone shoot me a ballpark pricerange for one of these... idk if it is scoped, sporterized, import marked, ect i just know his buddy used it as a deer rifle with great success...
 
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