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Italian Garand

8K views 18 replies 15 participants last post by  bobdufus 
#1 ·
What would a Italian reworked Garand be worth? It has a 1966 barrel in .308 and 7.62 marked op rod. PB and serial number on stock. Its about 1/2 inch shorter than an 30.06. Decent shape with a great bore. I have no idea? All US parts. It appears to be a simple rebuild in 308?
 
#4 ·
It's a .308 Garand or its a BM59?
They are two different rifles even if the BM59 is based on the modified Garand receiver.
On this side of the pond the price difference between a 30-06 or a .308 Garand is not much, 50 to 100 Euros difference. May be because here those .308 are not common and those on the market are formerly 30-06 revorked to .308 by a local gun maker(Adler) as our army has not released the .308 Garand for the civil market. Yes The .308 its a bit shorter compared to the original30-06.
We have NO BM59 available here. The sameGun maker is revorking Garands to make 'tanker' copies and BM60(?) copies which was the civilian version of the BM59 with out the auto selector, they are anyway marked with the gun maker logo.

regards Gianluca
 
#5 ·
Its a Garand not a BM59 guys, just a M1 in 308.
 
#6 ·
Vic, here's an excerpt from the 1994 publication "The M1 Garand: Owner's Guide" by Scott Duff, who's acknowledged by many including CMP as an expert on Garands:

In the early 1960s, a commercial firm built and sold some short barreled M1 rifles, terming them "Tanker Garands." The name stuck and this type of rifle is still being sold under the Tanker name. The only known surviving field modified rifle remains in the Springfield Armory museum collection.

Jim Thompson, another Garand researcher, goes into a bit more detail about the shortened Garands in his 1998 book "The Complete M1 Garand: A Guide for the Shooter and Collector." In essence, there was a project involving a modified Garand, called the T26, which was intended for use by airborne troops. The experiment found that the shortened Garand generated too much recoil and muzzle blast when chambered in 30-06, and was brought to an end very late in WW2. He mentions that the "tanker" name was strictly commercial; he also adds this:

In .308 or 7.62 NATO, though (especially with a compensator/flash hider attached), the 18-inch-barreled shorty can be a handy rifle and is small enough to carry into the field as hunting rifle .... Springfield Armory, Incorporated and Arlington Ordnance market these variants, and they are quite good in .308. However, many of the Fed Ords are downright dangerous, and inspection by a first class armorer is imperative before firing.

Hope that helps.
 
#9 ·
"Springfield"
 
#11 ·
I'll bet the barrel is marked SA. This is just a receiver with a barrel reworked in Italy. They shortened the barrel and reamed it in 7.62 NATO and rethreaded it. An Italian modified operating rod, a shorter stock and lower hand guard complete the modification. I think the kits were meant for the european market to satisfy the need for NATO rifles. SARCO sells these parts in a kit. It is a cheap way to get a rifle in this caliber. Only one problem, DON'T shoot commercial 308 in one. The head space is too deep for the commercial round, it will swallow a 308 field gauge.
 
#13 ·
I have 2 of these kits from Sarco. One I built on a CMP reciever , the other ( w/CMP reciever) is still in pieces in the box. Both of mine have 7.62 etc on the side of the op rod.

Both kits were refinished with spray & bake by Sarco. The lower handguard is about 1/2 inch shorter than standard '06.

Hope this helps.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Tipo 2

What you have--and thanks for quoting my books, albeit you were in the wrong part,
this is NOT a T26--is a "Tipo 2" variant, usually done by Terni. I've built a few myself, and they're generally superb performers. The ones I built were all set up to shoot commercial .308 or 7.62x51N NATO, and actually, most of them are tight enough. The T26--the rifle sometimes called a "Tanker" commercially, even though the original and the M1E5 were Airborne projects SOLELY--got its ridiculous commercial name from Fed Ord, albeit others have assembled them. Fed Ord was, to be blunt, the penultimate schlock house. As of a couple of years ago, some non-infantry units
were still toting "Tipo 2" rifles. And apparently the Danes and even the Germans used a few. I had one with BGS identifiers on it.

All Italian-issued "Tipo 2" rifles used American MAP-supplied M1 Garand receivers.

No "Tipo 1" ever left a factory in that configuration. They were all modified after the M1 was out of production.

Indeed, I was told thirty years ago that Breda and Beretta NEVER PRODUCED M1 Garands in quantity for the Italian Army, albeit they exported around half a million or more. The source was the "horse's mouth", by the way.

I've always doubted that. Still, it came from the 3 sources who ought to know, Breda, Beretta, and Italian Ordnance.

The receivers used for Tipo 2 rifles were generally micro-welded and re-marked, but retained their U.S. serial numbers.

They also spelled out that "no standard Italian-produced M1 used other than the four maximum digit, letter series European numbering system".

However, on the Danish contract, there were in fact receivers with five numbered digits, which makes one wonder....

Still, the Nigerian, Ethiopian, Colombian, Salvadoran, Yemeni, Egyptian, and Indonesia versions did NOT five digit serial numbers that I ever saw.

This is why research continues.

Some of the folks spewing fantasies online need to do a little research in European numbering and coding systems.

No T26 ever left the factory that way, and NONE ever saw field service. The "Tanker" never existed. That lie was an advertising scam by the corrupt, sleazy operators at Fed Ord, who put together some of the most horrible, dangerous misidentified grenades in human history.

Nor are M1E or BM59 ever the same thing, and less than a dozen actual military BM59's ever entered the United States, ALL before 1970.
 
#14 ·
Mi garand in 7.62 NATO was the italian Army issue waiting for the BM59 and even after. I did my duty in 1974 and while infantry companies had the 20 shots semi/full auto BM59 my 120 mm mortar company was equipped with plain garands converted to .308. Most were made with US receivers.
 
#15 ·
Fed ord

I have a FED ORDNANCE short rfle with 10 rd BM59 magazine.shoots like a charm.it was a kit and yes it is welded.I checked with Rock island arsenal,about the heat treatment.was told annealed it was safe to shoot but would get head space after a while.It was chamber reamed to minimum by one of the best armorers around in the north.:rolleyes:
 
#16 ·
The Italians converted many Garands to 7.62 by shortening the barrel from the chamber end by about half an inch and shortening the op rod to match. That might be what you have.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Actually, most 7.62x51mm. Garands were full length. The Tipo 2 generally followed the BM59 in issue, and was intended for use by non-infantry personnel. It is 12mm. shorter than standard, which is why the lower ("rear") handguard, butt stock, barrel, and operating rod cannot be interchanged with standard Garands.

The "Tipo 1" used full-length, 7.62x51mm. , new-made barrels, featuring one turn in 12" rifling, and was in issue simultaneously.

The idea was to have correct NATO caliber rifles on hand while the later large magazine selective fire medium caliber "assault rifle" situation was addressed fully. And the conversions work nicely. It is best to use a late, postwar "65" series bolt to headspace as tightly as possible. Otherwise, use ONLY GI brass.

But the cartridge is the reason these and a lot of 7.62x51 M1's were produced. In fact, almost all the standard length M1 Garands sold to Nigeria were the newer cartridge. Some, oddly, were marked "BM.59", even though standard Garands.

And indeed, the cartridge is far superior in overall versatility in the M1, whose "original" cartridge in fact was .276 Pedersen Center Fire in its last incarnation.

The newer cartridge is not only inherently more accurate and easier to load, it also reduces wear on the rifles.

Also, long term, ammo will be MUCH cheaper, especially after the CMP "HXP" bonanza is over.
 
#19 · (Edited)
terni stock

Just saw this thread. Anyway, a couple of years ago I obtained a Terni stock which had 1/2 inch added 2 inches from the front. Hardwood, glued and pinned front to back. Darker wood, then sanded and finished. Typical Italian workmanship. Dropped my barreled action in it. Fit was so tight that I had to switch out the trigger guard for one with worn lugs to get it to close. My garand looks great and shoots better groups. I'm gonna leave it like that. Only cartouche was a"T" 3 inches from the buttplate.
 
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