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Betonfahrer
12-27-2008, 09:17 AM
This is a Greek conversion of a French Gras 1874 bayonet to fit the 1903 Mannlicher.The top of the pommel was ground down.Most of the conversion work was on the cross guard/muzzle ring.I tried to take close ups of that.They had cut the top off the orginal and machined it out to take a new piece of steel that had its own muzzle ring and held in place by rivets ground flush.This was orginallly made at Steyr. It seems that most of Steyr 1894 bayonet production went to Greece.I dont know if the entire contract of bayonets and Rifles were for the greek army.

HELLASBAYOS
12-27-2008, 12:21 PM
This is only one type of conversion, among others, on Gras bayonets done by the Greeks to fit their Greek Mannlicher-Schonauer rifle.
Greece in total bought from Steyr (according to Stey's official records) 128.000 Gras rifles from 1877 till 1886, (22 March 1886 was the last recorded order for 1.000 rifles). The bayonets for the Greek order are marked "Waffenfabrik Steyr" and the year of manufacture.
Greece have bought supplementary quantities of Gras rifles w/bayonets from France, this being the reason to find Greek alteration bayonets with various French makers inscriptions. There are also coversions with the inscription "Usine de Steyr".
This bayonet conversion seems that it was the first done after WW1, as there are photos showing it on Greek Mannlichers from Minor Asia expedition period until WW2, at that time Gras being a rifle for secondary units.
Best regards, Giannis.

Betonfahrer
12-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Was the Minor Asia Expedition when they were fighting the Turkish army? will this bayonet fit the Greek rifle that was made in Greece and similar to Gras rifle?I have another Conversion bayonet that I will post on later.Thanks for the info on the Gras in Greek service!

HELLASBAYOS
12-28-2008, 05:33 AM
For the first question the answer is yes.
Obviously you mean the M1872 MYLONAS rifle which was of Greek design (Efstathios Mylonas) but made in Belgium by two firms (E&L Nagant and Auguste Francotte of Liege) in small quantities, approximately 8.000 in total. The Greek design rifle was an improvement of the M1870 Comblain rifle.
The bayonet for Mylonas Rifle was similar to the M1866 Chassepot bayonet.

amsfelder
12-29-2008, 12:48 AM
The bayonet for Mylonas Rifle was similar to the M1866 Chassepot bayonet.

Do you know how to identify the Mylonas bayonet?

/Amsfelder

HELLASBAYOS
12-29-2008, 11:58 AM
Hello,
The bayonets used with Mylonas rifle were M1866 Chassepot type, German made, particularly Alexander Coppel, with leather scabbard instead of all steel. But I have found recently another maker's bayonet accompanying a Mylonas rifle and I am doing now a research on it, this research being one of the reasons to delay somehow the completion of my book regarding the Greek bayonets.
Giannis.

sfm1904
01-06-2009, 03:28 AM
Hello,
The bayonets used with Mylonas rifle were M1866 Chassepot type, German made, particularly Alexander Coppel, with leather scabbard instead of all steel. But I have found recently another maker's bayonet accompanying a Mylonas rifle and I am doing now a research on it, this research being one of the reasons to delay somehow the completion of my book regarding the Greek bayonets.
Giannis.

Gianni it seems strange to me, for almost 8,000 rifle's to had more than one contract for bayonet. Of course there is a possibility to bought them from the free market and to not make a contract at all. If that had happen then you will found more than one maker.

HELLASBAYOS
01-06-2009, 05:30 AM
I agree with your thought Panagioti. I hope to find out when my research will be completed.

amsfelder
01-06-2009, 02:49 PM
The Belgian arm manufacturers were small firms, which often co-orporated to fulfill an order

According to book "Les Revolvers et les Fusil Nagant" the order of Mylonas dates from 1876. A picture shows a Mylonas with serial 464 on receiver and marked 1876 on chamber.

The garniture and barrel (11 mm) of the Mylonas should be identical to the Remingtons produced by Nagant also according to the book

I then presume the bayonet to be identical to the Remington yathagans - i.e Chassepot design but no cutout in muzzlering, no chamfered slot and a muzzlering size of 18 mm.

Do you know if the bayonet have a serial and Greek proof marks?

I have always wondered, why there are so few informations on the Mylonas

I am looking forward to purchase your book

/Amsfelder

sfm1904
01-06-2009, 05:15 PM
Yes, the bayonet have Greek proof marks but it was identical to Chassepot. I'm sure that Giannis will have one.

JPS
01-07-2009, 01:25 AM
Hello Gents,

Here is a photo of some of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles and carbines that also show one of the other variations of the Greek conversion of the Gras bayonets for use with the M-S's. The primary difference is the removal of the quillion.

I have a Steyr produced Gras rifle and bayonet from the Greek contract as well, but don't have any decent photos available right now. I'll try and post some photos later.

Please let us know how your research progesses Hellasbayos. There is limited info in English regarding Greek rifles prior to the M-S. New info is always welcome!

Warmest regards,

JPS

sfm1904
01-07-2009, 08:26 AM
Hello JPS,

Nice collection you have. Can you tell me the marks on the M1914 bayonets?

As I can see you have two variations of the Greek altered Grass bayonet, for M/S 1903 rifle. Do you have the other two?

HELLASBAYOS
01-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Hello,
It is normal Amsfelder in my opinion for the the few existed info regarding the Mylonas rifle, due to the short time of it to see official service, (Greece bought the superior at the time Gras rifle and as no other country accepted the Mylonas). The bayonets have Greek serial numbers and usually a Greek cap letter on base of the blade, (one in my collection have the Greek letter sigma - Σ -). The handle is similar to Chassepot, not the Remington's.
As I can judge from the photo JPS, (your Greek collection is really TOP!), the first from up, second and fourth bayonets are Gras conversions to M1903/14. The third is originally made M1903/14 or M1903/14/27(Italian contract). Is it possible to know the marks on them?
The book I believe will be completed this year.
Best regards to all.

sfm1904
01-09-2009, 09:26 AM
What an eye........ you have Gianni, you manage to recognize the first bayonet!!!!!!

achill
11-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Some pics from a Mylonas Bajo.At the pic were are two Bajo the right one is for the Mylonas rifle.

Regards George