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My Star and Llama Pistols

26K views 40 replies 18 participants last post by  Bob In St. Louis 
#1 ·
Been awhile since I've posted here but I've been lurking around for several years now, more so recently, am retired and have more time now. As one member here puts it, I love that Spanish, steel, here are mine.


Llama IXA 1984 45acp




Llama Mod. 1 1943 32acp







Star PD 45acp




Star BM 9mm
 
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#6 ·
vz58kid,

Not to start a flame on this and its not uncommon to hear this same reasoning from others, but that is usually what some say and think of the Spanish guns of the Star and Llama models of Eibar, and the Astra's of Guernica in Spain that have not owned them to say that and even some that have had them but didn't know how to properly take care of or repair them, I was one of them myself years ago till I bought my first Llama 9mm XI, it had feed problems that turn out to be the magazine, a new spring in the mag was all it needed and it was fine, I traded it off on a S&W mod 13-1 357 a few years later, all the rest of Llama's and Star's since the Llama 9mm have functioned without a problem after proper care and maintenance, however, that said, I can only vouch for the older models.
 
#9 ·
I have a one-of-a-kind Llama 9mm I just finished. It is as smooth as silk and has been 100% so far. (150 rnds). This is one of my custom Llamas. I also just finished smithing a govt Max 1 9mm. I have to admit that no 1911 that I own is as smooth as this one. I was shocked at how it shot. You don't see many 9mm in the 5" length especially in the Max series.



 
#13 ·
Larry. Lovely one of a kind Llama. I have several older Llamas to include an "Extra" and really enjoy shooting them. I may be able to pick up a very late Llama .45. It is marked "Firestorm" but it also has "Fabrinor" on the slide and I believe it has the year "04" on it as well. It is made in Spain and the town is not Vitoria but I can't recall the name of the town. Were these the last made before Fabrinor finally closed? I would appreciate your opinion re: the quality. Thanks. Cal
 
#21 ·
Vitoria it´s the capital city of Alava province, Fabrinor was in Legutiano, a town of that province but I think that company renamed or was sold, not sure of it, making pistols was just one of the activities they planned to do when they set up the company, they were more focused in making cast steel parts for other industries.
 
#14 ·
Hi Cal, thanks for the compliment. Some people collect and want everything to be original. That does increase their value. Llamas have always treated me well. Maybe because I treat them well? I chuckle at the "other" 1911 owners who brag how they spent $1500, $2000 or even $3000 for their pistol. Now, I am not saying that my Llamas shoot as good as they do but my point is you always read at how they buy these $2000 guns and then send them out to "shoot better" or to feed "any ammo" or whatever. It seems that almost any 1911 can be tweaked to the owner's likes. When we have a Llama that won't shoot JHPs reliably it's because the are "cheap junk". I just shake my head.

Llamas can be tweaked as well. They cut corners by not doing the fine milling. I always loved the finish on them and it holds up very well. Some of the "better" 1911s have finishes that wear out easily. Soft steel? Yeah, right, maybe in the 20s. I'd put any one of my Llamas up against the big boys any day.

You read how the 1911 guys all want a reliable 1911 in 9mm because the ammo is cheap. They toss around names of the name brand 9mms that carry a $1000 price tag yet every day on Gunbroker I see 9mm Llamas that sell for under $300. No one wants one, lol. Oh well, their loss!

As for the last of the Llamas/Firestorm my thoughts have been that once the employees took over they knew they had to make a quality firearm or they would lose everything. IMO, they closed due to govt restrictions put on them and from what I read the creditors forced them into bankruptcy, not a shabby product. The Max series was the closest to the 1911 that they made and from what I've seen, they are a quality pistol. I have heard nothing but good things about the Firestorm line of 1911s. Like all mfgs of the 1911 they seemed to have issues with the shorter barrel designs. If I see or hear about an issue with the latest Llamas it is usually feeding issues with the MiniMax or the sub-compact models but I know many who are completely happy with theirs. I would not hesitate in buying a late model Llama as my picture above shows. My 9mm Govt Max is the smoothest and sweetest 9mm I've ever shot and I own 3 Browning Hi Powers and sold a 4th. I was amazed at how accurate it was and how smooth it was. Of course, before I shoot any used handgun I totally take it apart to the last screw and finish any friction area as well as giving them my own personal trigger job and make sure the sear is safe and smooth. I had to do very little "cleaning up" on the Max series 9mm. I was and still am very impressed with this gun. If any one reading this sees a 9mm Llama Max series, buy it. You will not be sorry. I am selling my previous commander length 9mm because the 2 tone (pic above) is very nice. My "old one" is from the 80s and shot very well, if anyone wants one.
 
#15 ·
As I recall reading why Star went out of business, it was a series of events that happened during that period. Interarms the importer closed up shop when the owner died and his daughter yielded to the anti gun crowd around Washington D.C. About this time Congress passed the AW ban with the 10 round magazine restriction while Star was introducing several model hand guns with double stack magazines. Then came Union problems in Spain, coupled with a sluggish economy and it was the end.

Too bad a fine gun company had to close shop.

I wish someone would purchase rights to make the Star Firestar M-43 with present day technology.
 
#17 ·
All Star handguns imported thru Interarms met GCA-68 requirements as to size and safety devices.

The decades earlier GCA-68 affected mostly the jewel like quality of the pocket handgun imports from Italy, Spain, Belgium, Germany and WWII Milsurps - the so called Saturday Night Specials. Although a Walther PPK could hardly be called a SNS, it too was banned from import due to it's size.

An interesting read would be the history of the 1968 Gun Control Act and how the NRA, US gun manufacturers, LBJ's Federal Government and a public frightened by recent city riots all joined in to control mail order gun traffic, halt importation of inexpensive imports, oversee gun ownership and lower the overall crime rate.

GCA-68 did little to help lower street crime.
 
#18 ·
Larry, Thank you for the information. As I thought, you are obviously very knowledgeable about the Llamas. I have a commander style 9mm, smooth wood grips with the Llama medallion,(Model XIB, 1986) and it is a very sweet shooter. I have never had a problem with it. PM me on the old 9mm you have. I can't promise anything but who knows?
thanks Cal
 
#27 ·
No, thank you all the collectors that treasure that old pistols and search about them in spite of the idiomatic obstacle. It´s here I learnt that the stapler I´m using(brand El Casco), before owned by my father, was made by a former gun maker but as we say here "camaron que se duerme, se lo lleva la corriente" :)
 
#28 ·
ST, here is some history just for you!
'Firestorm' was a fairly new brandname set up by the Sodini family, who also
own SGS Importers, Eagle Imports, Import Sports, yourgunparts, etc.

Firestorm had no manufacturing capability, so it subcontracts pistol manufacture
out overseas ---the designs just happen (hehe) to be almost cookie-cutter
lifts from existing models produced by the overseas manufacturers.
Many major US manufacturers do the same thing--sometimes importing
whole pre-fitted guns (albeit in kit form).

The 1911-style Firestorm pistols were made by Fabrinor (Llama) in Spain.
Pretty much all other Firestorm pistol models were made by BERSA in Argentina.
The pistols are imported as fitted kits, and then assembled by Firestorm in the US.

The Firestorm (Llama) pistols go though two pickets of QC: Fabrinor's and Firestorm's own...
so I would suppose the US-assembled Firestorm might have an edge in quality.
 
#29 ·
Again, the discussion is Star and Llama pistols, made by Star and Llama and marked as such, not pistols Llama may or may not have made for some other brand/company.

What friends are these? I'd like to discuss this with them and get the benefit of their experiences first hand. Most certainly you wouldn't mind that, who are they?

SlimTim
 
#30 ·
Again, the discussion is Star and Llama pistols, made by Star and Llama and marked as such, not pistols Llama may or may not have made for some other brand/company.

What friends are these? I'd like to discuss this with them and get the benefit of their experiences first hand. Most certainly you wouldn't mind that, who are they?

SlimTim
 
#35 ·
No, I was just pointing out that you were being your usual trollish self, and had nothing of substance to add to the thread, only to quote non-existant friends, guns you've never shot nor owned nor likely seen, claming to have bought by the boatload but never having owned a single example, have fired despite the fact you never go to the range (or average once every five years), etc., etc., etc.

SlimTim
 
#33 ·
I really don't want to get in the middle of this but I think that we have all had bad experiences with guns from different manufacturers. I treated myself to a birthday present and bought a "designer" 1911 .45 cal from a very respected manufacturer several years ago. The pistol refused to feed various types of ammo from time to time. In other words it would feed fine for a few rounds and then would quit. I tried everything and sought the expertise of a local gunsmith and a competitive shooter to no avail. I ended up sending the gun back several times and the problem was finally resolved. I did not give up on the manufacturer and in fact still enjoy shooting this same gun. My point being that even the "high dollar" domestic manufacturers have problems from time to time. I must say that I have never had a similar problem with any Spanish handgun I have ever owned and I have owned a considerable sampling from all three Spanish companies over the years. So when I do run across that "soft steel" or "Saturday night special quality" of a Spanish handgun, I will look upon it as what it is, an anomaly during my experience with these fine guns. Oh by the way, I never expect these guns to be collector items and have long ago disabused myself of the notion of making money on any gun I have ever bought. But no one can put a price on the joy I have had on the range with any of my old Spanish Pistolas.
Just my two cents! Best to all and everybody have a great weekend.
Cal44
 
#34 ·


My Spanish pistol collection includes the above 4; a Star Modelo Super, 2 Llama .45 acp (single and double stack), and that funny looking Astra 400. Funny looking but at 10 yards it owns the center of the target. Not bad for a 68 year old odd-calibered military pistol. Other then an ammo shortage issue (fixed; SARCO had some non-corrosive 9mm Largo for sale - 2,000 round case for $475 plus shipping.

The only problem I've had was because bubba gunsmith ground down the catch on the slide stop pin and it backed out while I was shooting. Nothing like having to clear a loaded chamber when the slide is off the gun! Muzzle down range means alot!

The Spanish made some very nice pistols; I don't have any problems carrying any of them.
 
#36 ·
I personally own in the area of 15 Llamas. I have worked on many times that many for others. I also own and work on many 1911s as well.

The biggest problems with the Llamas seem to be the extractors and firing pins. I feel that Llamas do not like to be dry fired without snap caps. I believe many of the problems are from being dry fired thousands of times. I haven not seen many failures in the "working parts" unless they were "modified" along the way by someone who didn't know what he was doing. My point is that the Llamas are every bit as good as the other 1911s. The "other" 1911s usually fail in the extractors as well. Fact. Tuning the extractor properly is the key to extraction in the 1911 pistol. If it's a Llama, it's junk and it it's a Wilson Combat it just needs to be tuned.

Llama does have one flaw that is unique. Their plunger tubes have design flaws. After time, the ends of the thumb safety side chip and become useless. I have a bunch in stock but I have found steel replacement tubes that perform perfectly and will never break again. Maybe the "junk" label came from these little plastic parts breaking with no known source as replacement? The small frames also have this issue but not as bad (I think the shorter tube makes it more difficult to break). I have a guy who makes steel tubes for the small frames as well but he makes them on special order, as time allows, but they also work great.

Most feeding issues (both 1911s and Llamas) are mag related. If I get a new Llama the first thing I check (after tearing it down to every screw and pin) is to check how the magazine it came with works with it. If it has feeding issues I use an already proven mag I have. If that does not do it I then find 3 mags and tweak the feed lips to that particular gun. I never fail in getting the Llamas to feed perfectly. It's the mags, guys! The 1911 crowd has no problems spending $40 on mags to get their $2500 1911s to function perfectly but get a Llama with feeding issues and it's junk. I never get it. The Llamas are 1911 designs with all the inherited issues from the 1911 platform. Yes, like any mfg, you get a dud, a lemon, a piece of crap but that isn't limited to Llama, Star or Astra. People spend cheap money on one of these and if it fails in any way they "get what they paid for" but let it happen to an Ed Brown or Colt and it just needs to be tweaked. (shakes head). That's ok, though. Anyone who owns one of these fine guns get to either buy 4 or 5 for the price of one of theirs or we use the money saved for ammo or whatever else we desire. These guns are the best kept secret of the gun world and I hope it stays that way forever!
 
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