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  1. #1
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    Default Question on CETME trigger group

    I'm looking at what is advertised as a full-auto trigger group for a CETME at this site. I contacted the firm to inquire about starting the NFA paperwork, etc to purchase this item. I was told by a nice lady, who stated that she didn't "know a whole lot about it", that the trigger group could be shipped straight to me without any special paperwork.

    First think I did was ask her how that could be since this would be an NFA item. She told me that she didn't think the trigger group had a full auto sear in it.

    At the same time, I notice that full auto sears and such are offered for sale on this same website. Now I'm not a Rhodes Scholar, but transferable stuff like this has GOT to involve NFA rules.

    Anyone out there offer me some clarification and guidance on this?

    TIA!
    http://forums.gunboards.com/image.php?u=666&type=sigpic&dateline=1246032163

    "We stacked f**ks like you 5 feet high in Korea. We used you for sandbags."

    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Now who's bringing the hot wings?

    I've filled my "stupid people" quota for the year. Sorry, I'm not accepting any more applications.

  2. #2
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    Michigan
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    3,606

    Default

    "replacement parts" are not nessesarily regulated as are the recievers.

    For instance you can own all manor of AR full auto parts,
    Same goes for HK, Cetme, AK........
    and so on, and not be in violation of any laws.
    The danger lies when you have both the arms and the fun parts.
    Even then, some will say you are ok as long as you have not modified, nor fit any parts to your particular weapon.
    Others will have palpitations at the thought....
    There is a danger.....but to what extent......I don't know.
    The ATF seems to like to keep things in a grey area.
    It makes it easier for them to "operate".

    Perhaps up at the Machinegun Board they may have some info to ease your worries, or not.
    Last edited by OhBoy; 03-16-2009 at 03:57 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I did post on the MG board and I'll see what I find out there. I definitely want to stay in compliance with NFA laws if I purchase any of these parts.
    http://forums.gunboards.com/image.php?u=666&type=sigpic&dateline=1246032163

    "We stacked f**ks like you 5 feet high in Korea. We used you for sandbags."

    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Now who's bringing the hot wings?

    I've filled my "stupid people" quota for the year. Sorry, I'm not accepting any more applications.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CT
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    433

    Default

    DaSOB

    You can purchase the Full Auto Lower [legally]. There is no law preventing you from buying a complete Gun Kit is you want to.
    The Upper Receiver is the Licenced part of your gun if you are talking about a Cetme.
    The Full Auto Trigger Pack and the Lower Metal Frame both need to be converted to SemiAuto Only to work and or to fit in your Gun, which also involve removing the auto Sear and a couple other parts also.


    The instuctions can be found in the "Sticky" [ Build Info ].

    gw11

  5. #5
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    Default

    Thanks. On the MG board I found out that I can't legally possess a full auto FCG and a semi-auto weapon since in the eyes of the feds that establishes intent. Plus, the FA pack won't fit a semi-auto receiver, and of course any mod would be illegal.

    I figured that all angles had been covered, just wanted to be sure that I didn't do something stupid and earn myself a vacation at Club Fed.

    Thanks again!
    http://forums.gunboards.com/image.php?u=666&type=sigpic&dateline=1246032163

    "We stacked f**ks like you 5 feet high in Korea. We used you for sandbags."

    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Now who's bringing the hot wings?

    I've filled my "stupid people" quota for the year. Sorry, I'm not accepting any more applications.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Ohio
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    380

    Default

    A full auto CETME FCG group won't fit on a Century CETME. Century had to cut the ears off the housing and weld a shelf where the pin goes, the FA parts cant fit in the housing.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    CT
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    Default

    Your info from MG Board is partly incorrect!

    If you have a Full Auto Lower assembly in a box in your closet along with info on how to convert your semi auto into a Full Auto or just a bunch of parts for Full auto [Auto Sears etc] and the ATF happens to have cause to Raid your House then yes you may have a problem.

    You as a Private Person, Non Manufacturer or /FFL can legally Build any Firearm you want. [as long as it is not Full Auto. And the parts used are converted to meet ATF Regulations. [This means adhering the Full Auto rules and the The Imported Parts Count used on your gun].
    You can purchase a Semi Cetme or HK [ptr91] Receiver and a Complete Parts kit /Minus the intact Full Auto Upper Receiver and assemble it for yourself.

    You can Hand make your own Receiver, your own design, as long as it is not Full auto and has no possibility to be Readily Converted to a Full auto /with no Serial Number. [as long as you own it] [if you want to give it to your Son it then needs to be serialized per ATF Regulations]

    If you want to lean toward caution, just copy the conversation info from My Build Thread in the "Sticky". When the Full Auto Lower arrives, just remove the Auto Sear and Trip Lever and throw them in the Dumpster.
    And place the info in the box with your parted Lower.
    If you are going to do the work, just lay out [scribe and center punch] the parts and or cut the shelf in the Trigger Frame which will remove the Sear Pin Hole.

    Or just Place the parts in a box with a letter of intention and send them off to a builder that can update the parts for your gun.


    LEGAL INFO



    Copied from IGF.com

    The following is the written response I received from the B.A.T.F. regarding various methods of converting a G3 trigger pack to semi auto only. The main question I had was if it would be legal to weld over or weld a piece of round stock into the existing auto sear pin hole (with the auto parts removed of course) which would eliminate the possibility of installing the automatic fire control parts.



    Department of the Treasury

    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

    Washington, DC 20226

    Sept 28, 2001



    Mr. xxxx

    xx, AR 72653



    Dear Mr. xxxx

    This is in reply to your letter in which you have requested proper procedure for modifying a Heckler and Koch G-3 machinegun trigger, into a semiautomatic trigger.

    To properly convert a G-3 machinegun trigger into a semiautomatic only trigger there are several modifications needed. The modifications are listed as follows:

    1. Remove the automatic sear.

    2. Grind off the automatic sear notch from the face of the hammer

    3. Cut away the front corner of the trigger housing where the automatic sear is mounted, .410-inch from the bottom and .540 inch from the front towards the rear.

    4. A new hole has to be drilled to accommodate the trigger spring. The hole dimension is .200 inch drill that hole .165 inch from the front of the new corner and .250 from the bottom of the new corner. These dimensions are for the center of the hole.

    5. The trigger spring should be replaced with a semiautomatic trigger spring but the G-3 trigger spring will work.

    6. The trigger over travel stop has to be moved towards the rear tang of the trigger .150-inch

    -2-

    Mr.xxx

    7. It will also be necessary to modify the trigger housing. Modify the housing by cutting off the tabs for the front assembly pin. Then adjust the fit of the housing into the receiver.

    Title 26, United States code, Chapter 53, section 5845 (b), defines the term machinegun as any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading with a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in possession or under control of a person.

    If you do not properly modify the G-3 machinegun trigger pack and install it in your semi automatic rifle, and that weapon fires more than one shot automatically with a single function of the trigger, you would be in possession of an unregistered machinegun.

    We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.

    Sincerely yours,
    Curtis Bartlett
    Chief Firearms Technology Branch
    Last edited by gw11; 03-23-2009 at 03:43 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    CT
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    Default

    The holes in the Century Receivers are not welded and replaced with the shelf. [the ATF sees a Full Auto Gun as Once a Full Auto/ Always a Full Auto].
    You can not possess a receiver with the sear pin holes welded over or the Semi Auto Shelf installed over the Holes. This is a Big No No! If the ATF x-rays the metal and can see holes through the original shell of the receiver, you have a big problem.

    The Pin Fingers on the Lower Grip Housing can either be cut off, or they can be milled out on the sides of the inside of the tabs to fit the Upper Receiver Lug and then weld from the inside an actual Pin end [stub] to each side to fake the look of the use of the pin. [this is legal as long as the pin stubs are not removable. On Plastic lowers you can Epoxy the stubs in place.

    One thing you don't have to do but as caution has it, make sure the Safety Selector can not go to the Full Auto position. If it does and a Cop notices the gun will go to the AFT and they will Beat it Bang it Rattle it Spit on it in and attempt to get your gun to fire more than one shot with one pull of the trigger. [This usually only happens to Fal owners but I figure Why invite aggravation]

    gw11
    Last edited by gw11; 03-17-2009 at 06:07 PM.

  9. #9
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    Dec 1969
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    CT
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    Default

    Oh! Also https://www.apexgunparts.com has New Cetme Complete Lowers for $75.00.
    gw11

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