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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Default Remington Berthier stock removal

    Want to separate barrel/action from Remington Berthier. What's with the round doohickys holding the two together. Do I need a special tool or is there a secret I must learn?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default

    As per Alamas ...
    1- Make sure your weapon is empty of cartridge (as always)
    2- Remove the front and middle band
    3- Open the bolt and remove the screw on the upper side (in this position) of the bolt
    4- Look at the two front lugs of the bolt. You can easily see the right one. When you can see the left one, these lugs are in a larger part of the receiver which allow these lugs to turn to the right. The front part of the bolt will turn independently from the rear part. When you have turned about 60°, pull the bolt handle to the rear and remove it from the receiver (and the front part too which is now apart).
    5- With a screwdriver of proper dimension, remove the screw of the right side of the receiver. Pay attention not to damage the wood with a too large screw driver.
    6- Remove the screw behind the trigger guard (you can invert 5 and 6 but it is easier that way).
    7- Pull the trigger guard to remove it from the wood. The trigger mecanism and the magazine come with it.
    8- Now you can see two screws. They were hidden before by the trigger guard. There is only one screw you can remove with a classical screwdriver (the others can be removed with special "fork" screwdrivers only). Remove that screw. Now you can remove the receiver and the barrel from the wood. I think you don't need any further disassembly to correctly clean up your carbine.

    The assembly is more or less in the opposite order : When your receiver and you barrel are back in the wood, you can put the middle and front bands before screwing the receiver to the wood. Put the trigger guard in place. Put the screw of the right side of the receiver first, but don't screw it hard (or do you say tight?). You will certainly have to press on the trigger guard to ease it. This screw is sometimes hard to put back in place. You finish by the screw of the trigger guard. When it is back in place, you can finish to screw the screw of the right side of the receiver.

    Sorry for the mistakes in english, had to wrote it fast. However, I hope the explanations are clear enough.
    Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Co-Author of Banzai Special Project No. 1 Revised Edition
    The Siamese Mauser
    A Study Of Siamese / Thai Type 45 & Type 46 Long Rifles and Type 47 Carbines, Including An Overview Of Siamese/Thai Weapons 1860–2014

  3. #3
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    169

    Default

    This should be made a sticky, it's a very common question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Default

    There can only be a few amount of stickies on the forum without polluting it as per the agreements the moderators here made with the owners of this forum. I am working on consolidating posts together within a HUGE stickie.
    Please give me and Dale time to work on this issue
    Thank You
    Patrick
    Last edited by 1886lebel; 03-30-2009 at 02:54 PM.
    Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Co-Author of Banzai Special Project No. 1 Revised Edition
    The Siamese Mauser
    A Study Of Siamese / Thai Type 45 & Type 46 Long Rifles and Type 47 Carbines, Including An Overview Of Siamese/Thai Weapons 1860–2014

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NW Nevada
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    Default

    Thank you 1886lebel. I'm a little confused and perplexed. Maybe I should have better identified my rifle. It's a Remington made Mle 1907-15 marked "RAC 1907-15" on the barrel. It does not have a front and middle band. Why must I take apart the bolt to separate the stock from the barrel/action? What I want to do is replace the follower in the magazine well. It would appear that without a "fork" screwdriver I shouldn't even begin. Where does one get a "fork" screwdriver? What is the purpose of the two, what appear to be, bolt heads on the right and left side of the stock? They too look like they require a "fork" scredriver. Do they need to come out for disassembly?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Default

    You do not have to take the bolt completely apart but it is best to remove the bolt before taking out the magazine system.
    If you do not have the barrel bands ignore that step
    To take the magazine system out ...
    1. With a screwdriver of proper dimension, remove the screw located on the right side of the receiver, paying attention as to not damaging the wood with a too large screw driver bit.
    2. Remove the screw behind the trigger guard ... this one is a regular type screw
    3. Now pull the trigger guard in a downwards motion to remove it from the wood. The trigger mecanism and the magazine come with it.
    To seperate the receiver/barrel from the wood
    Now you can see two screws inside a plate that was hidden by the trigger guard. There is only one regular type screw, you remove that one screw only and the whole receiver/barrle will seperate from the wood.
    The other special "fork" type screw you will leave in place ... DO NOT REMOVE
    These screws were made this way so that the ordinary French soldier could not take that part off the weapon which was only to be done by the armourers at a main armament facility. If you want to remove these screws you will have to modify a flat-tip srewdriver to make this tool as these tools are very uncommon to find here in the U.S.A. ... BEST BET: DO NOT REMOVE
    Patrick
    Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Co-Author of Banzai Special Project No. 1 Revised Edition
    The Siamese Mauser
    A Study Of Siamese / Thai Type 45 & Type 46 Long Rifles and Type 47 Carbines, Including An Overview Of Siamese/Thai Weapons 1860–2014

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
    WI
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    675

    Default

    If by doohickeys you mean the dime size doohickys at the wrist and the forward end of the mag well, that go thru from side to side, these are reenforcing screws and don't need to come out to get the iron out of the wood.
    I made doohickey removers by taking the "coin" that is knocked out of an electrical box to let the wires pass thru and ground it to fit the two holes.
    E4 USMC '78-'82
    Last edited by windage; 03-30-2009 at 07:17 PM. Reason: ad
    Marrage doesn't just happen, you have to get out there and expose yourself to it, you know, like chicken pox.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    143

    Post Just say no to forks

    I've gotten around the forked drivers or grinding my own driver by using 2 small allen driver hex bits clamped tightly in a pair of vise grips. This way you can adjust the width of the "forks" for different sizes (like the end nut of a lebel epee bayonet), and you can downsize and go with smaller bits if need be for the smaller nuts.

    Beats the heck out of spending time grinding away on a coin, especially if you don't intend to do this very often. It's not as user friendly as a smaller tool, but will get the occasional job done.

    Dave

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,298

    Dohicky removal by ametuers

    My advice is; Do not attempt to remove the cross bolts on the Lebel or Berthier, unless some idiot has already messed them up before you got the gun.....There are easy ways to do this, but Patrick says I have keep them secret...(when you have saved enough box tops, then you too can join the club!!)

    (In Nam, many officers, when handed an SKS, would try to remove the recoil lug to get the weapon field stripped.....This was the field IQ test....staged by Warrant Officers!!)

    Dale
    Last edited by vonmazur; 03-31-2009 at 04:36 PM. Reason: sp
    "If those sweethearts won't face German bullets, Then they'll face French ones!"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
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    Default

    As vomazur told me once ... if you remove these, as the wood probably has shrunk over the ages they will not go back on in the correct manner they had previously and the little stem will stick out, they will have to be ground down to make it look like it was previously ... so Patrick DO NOT TAKE THEM OFF IDIOT, so now I send them to him to do this for me which reminds me I need to send you one to do for me now what I got this thing all cleaned up and ready for firing.
    It is best to just leave them alone.
    Patrick
    Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
    Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
    Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

    Co-Author of Banzai Special Project No. 1 Revised Edition
    The Siamese Mauser
    A Study Of Siamese / Thai Type 45 & Type 46 Long Rifles and Type 47 Carbines, Including An Overview Of Siamese/Thai Weapons 1860–2014

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    143

    Post

    Using the specialized nuts and screws was a great idea to keep the average soldier from monkeying with his rifle. Unfortunately, the Bubba from Georgia who sold me his M16 carbine had more tools. I have to tighten the forward stock lug and hope it lines back up. If there are any special hints to get one nut to turn while keeping the other side in position, it would be greatly appreciated. I haven't messed with it yet, and it would be nice to only have to do it once (my vise grips are still set for the epee bayo nut). I can keep a secret if you pm me.....
    Dave - lgm

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,298

    get some vise grips....

    OK, what you do with the front cross bolt is this.....line up the two notches horizontally, using the vise grips, clamp the bolt inside the stock cut out, tighten the nut against the vise grips...carefully file the excess.....

    Dale
    "If those sweethearts won't face German bullets, Then they'll face French ones!"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
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    Default

    Thank you Dale - worked like as charm, and no filing necessary!
    Dave

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