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Thread: Haenel 1909 Hybrid Mauser/Mannlicher?

  1. #1
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    Default Haenel 1909 Hybrid Mauser/Mannlicher?

    I saw this on Gunbroker.I have only seen 1 other type like this back at the OCGA in Cleveland.This looks like it has Gew-88 origins.My collector friend called it a Shilling-it was in the Gew88 cartrige.The one on the internet is in 7mm and is marked on the Receiver "CG Haenel 1914"Marked on side of receiver" Haenel Mod.1909".It looks like Gew98 length but has a short leaf carbine type sight.It also looks like South American or Chinese use.I am not trying to help this guy sell this-I dont know him but it was a strange rifle that I have seen only one example of in the last 25 years.The same guy has a Haenel Kar.88 in 7mm also-Anyone have any ideas on the 1909 rifle?
    Again
    Haenel mod 1909 dated 1914
    Gew.88 type action and bolt
    Different bolt relase
    Small handguard,short carbine type rear sight leaf
    Long 29" or so barrel-Gew. length
    No front barrel band-bayonet lug wrapps part way up sides of barrel
    Long bayonet lug for standard 98 type bayonets.
    Mauser magazine flush with stock.
    dated 1914 on top of receiver
    has fractur letter proofs on side of receiver
    no take down washer.
    I saw this and thought I should post about it.I think it needs to be an a Gunboards members collection
    The Truth is Concrete-Bertolt Brecht
    While much is too strange to be believed,nothing is too strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy

  2. #2
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    Default Small production Late CGH Mannlicher Rifles:

    The M1907, 1908 and 1909 Models by Haenel were all attempts to upgrade(improve) the original M88 design to be more user-friendly ( shielded bolt, internal stripper-fed magazine, more modern sights, etc, etc.
    They were made in both Rifle and Short rifle configurations, and offered to China (M1907, 6,8mmChinese) and Latin America (Paraguay in particular, 7mm or 7,65mm). The Paraguayans did buy some before defaulting.
    As they were relatively old technology, they could not cut the mustard against Mauser.

    JPS is the one to ask about these uncommon (?rare) M88 developments.

    Several variations have appeared on this board over the last few years. They seem to have been imported during the pre-GCA years (Interarms, etc).
    Some were eventually sold thru ALFA or AKAH,(1910-14) or eventually sequestered by the German Army in 1914. Some were also made in 7,9mm as well; possibly a late order for China, but not delivered?

    Photos are needed, to further ID the markings, to see if it was taken into German Service, or the marks are just normal Civilian Commercial proof marks.

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

  3. #3
    John Wall's Avatar
    John Wall is offline Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
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    Default

    I have examined two of these in the past month. They are extraordinarily tiny light weight rifles. Pictures do not do them justice because we rarely photograph rifles so relative scale can be percieved. However, they are somewhere between schoolboy and cadet rifle size. Perhaps they were available in an upscaled version? I came away thinking that CG Haenel must have made these for a niche market like military schools. If the two I've seen are any indication, these are not military weapons.

    Also, the rifle mentioned earlier is still on GB, and its proof marks are shown. I may be wrong, but they appear to be close to the real thing, but the crowns look sorta unusual???
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 04-02-2009 at 10:40 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default

    John and Doc AV thanks a lot for the info!I am always leery to metion on going auctions and dont want to get in trouble with moderators.So they fall out of the scope as a military rifle from what you all have said.Maybe the one on GB is a Chinese copy?? The Kar88 in 7mm mauser has very worn metal finish and the Karbine stock looks like is was on top of a pallet of rifles and they cranked the metal bands down accross the stock cracking it and putting pretty big gouges on it.Again thanks for the replys I knew you guys would have the answers!
    The Truth is Concrete-Bertolt Brecht
    While much is too strange to be believed,nothing is too strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy

  5. #5

    Default

    Good information Doc and John, thanks for helping Betonfahrer. And Betonfahrer, you handled the auction mention very well, thanks.

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