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  1. #1
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    Default Military issue Chinese SKS

    I am still not sure how to determine if a Chinese SKS was made for the civilain market or for the military. How can you pick out the military issue ones? Are all of the Norincos made for the usa market?

  2. #2
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    Default Chinese SKS Carbines

    Quote Originally Posted by jbc98k View Post
    I am still not sure how to determine if a Chinese SKS was made for the civilain market or for the military. How can you pick out the military issue ones? Are all of the Norincos made for the usa market?
    all Chinese sks carbines are made from Military parts. The guns with factory codes are generally said to be Military surplus the ones without (for the most part) that just have a serial number, are models not made for the military (ones with shortened barrels, snipers, chrome parade, and hunters models that have a serial number and import name and norinco on them are made from spare parts.These are guns to help the importers get rid of all the guns and parts they had.

    Factory codes have numbers in triangles, rectangles, ovals,and diamonds. also found are a few letter codes like TO DB DP these are all Military production.

    The ones made from parts were made up because the importers were interested in whole guns not millions of spare parts. The majority of sks carbines that came into this country were rebuilt to new. many used ones were imported in the early years. Some of the made from parts guns were made from miss matched serial number parts that were repaired or from rebuilt guns. The Chinese built more sks carbines than anyone else produced

  3. #3
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    Default

    ALL short barrel "Paratroopers" are not military guns. They are built as export models. I'm sure there are other models as well, like my SKS Sporter.

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    Default All paratroopers were built for export

    Even my factory 26 para?

  5. #5
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    Default yes even your factory 26 gun

    Quote Originally Posted by mpwmont View Post
    Even my factory 26 para?
    these guns are all made with Chinese Military parts and were done by the importer to make new sales and satisfy the consumer. The Chinese sks carbines came in in a large amount and they needed gimmicks to sell more and get a higher price. any paratrooper will tell you they jumped the M1 rifle Bar, and .30 brownings so who needs a shortened rifle? The Japanese had a take down rifle that came apart for jumping. but normally you do not need a shorter gun.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Maybe a better way to think about SKS rifle production is. All the rifles were made in the same factories. Some were either specifically modified ( Para carbines, "snipers" Ect) or just made from spare parts, then exported for commercial sale.

    There were really no "commercial" made rifles. Just rifles diverted at the factory to commercial exporters.

    Look at it like a Ford truck made here in the U.S. for foreign export. It may not have all the U.S. required U.S. safety parts and specifications, but it's still a Ford.

    Same with the Chinese they didn't care about military or commercial. They were just making SKS rifles with different parts and specifications.
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  7. #7
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    Question

    What about bolt carriers that are made without stripper clip guides, like the one in my SKS Sporter? Were these parts made for military SKS D models? Were the SKS D rifles designed for military use?

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jjjxlr8 View Post
    What about bolt carriers that are made without stripper clip guides, like the one in my SKS Sporter? Were these parts made for military SKS D models? Were the SKS D rifles designed for military use?
    I don't think they were "made without them". More likely the carriers were modified to remove the stripper clip guides. (ground off)
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  9. #9
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    Default

    I think you can see alot of difference in quality as the Chinese rushed to export as many SKS's as they could post 1989. IMO a chinese parts gun made for the commercial market is still just a commercially produced rifle. It's like the poly tech and norinco AK rifles, they might of been made in the same factory but levels of quality are very different and it's the same for SKS's.

    The carriers without the stripper guides were made by not cutting the guides in a carrier, they weren't ground off in most cases but just missed that step since the AK mag fed rifles didn't load from a stripper clip. I have seen a few rifles with the guides cut off, this I don't know came in this way or was done here.
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  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JIMMY C View Post
    I don't think they were "made without them". More likely the carriers were modified to remove the stripper clip guides. (ground off)

    The bolt carriers, like the one in my Sporter, were made without the guide, as mriddick indicates. They are not modified to 'remove' them, as that would make the bolt carrier too short.

    There are 'commercial' (non-military) SKS rifles made purely for export.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    I think you can see alot of difference in quality as the Chinese rushed to export as many SKS's as they could post 1989.
    due to the US norinco SKS ban , you wont see how bad a SKS are made after 2000 , worst than the 1989 .... marstar in canada has plans to bring them in this summer at US$115 (C$139) . you get what you pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    The carriers without the stripper guides were made by not cutting the guides in a carrier, they weren't ground off in most cases but just missed that step since the AK mag fed rifles didn't load from a stripper clip. I have seen a few rifles with the guides cut off, this I don't know came in this way or was done here.
    agreed. i think some are made from already assembled rifles, those ones will have the stripper guide . others are made from newly assembled rifles, in those cases they would have the parts supplier skip the guide , thus saving money .

  12. #12
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    Default Modified Surplus Rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
    all Chinese sks carbines are made from Military parts. The guns with factory codes are generally said to be Military surplus the ones without (for the most part) that just have a serial number, are models not made for the military (ones with shortened barrels, snipers, chrome parade, and hunters models that have a serial number and import name and norinco on them are made from spare parts.These are guns to help the importers get rid of all the guns and parts they had.

    Factory codes have numbers in triangles, rectangles, ovals,and diamonds. also found are a few letter codes like TO DB DP these are all Military production.

    The ones made from parts were made up because the importers were interested in whole guns not millions of spare parts. The majority of sks carbines that came into this country were rebuilt to new. many used ones were imported in the early years. Some of the made from parts guns were made from miss matched serial number parts that were repaired or from rebuilt guns. The Chinese built more sks carbines than anyone else produced
    I have a numbers matching 1964 Norinco with military markings that is a Paratrooper model! I was under the understanding that Norinco actually starting producing these at the factory. I believe the early shortened versions were made using military surplus rifles. I know these were not issued to troops but to consider them all to be non military is incorrect. A modified milsurp gun is just that regardless if it was issued or saw combat it still meets mil specs!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomer Pyle View Post
    I have a numbers matching 1964 Norinco with military markings that is a Paratrooper model! I was under the understanding that Norinco actually starting producing these at the factory. I believe the early shortened versions were made using military surplus rifles. I know these were not issued to troops but to consider them all to be non military is incorrect. A modified milsurp gun is just that regardless if it was issued or saw combat it still meets mil specs!
    How or who in China makes them does not matter. What matters is how Chinese sell them. If some government in Africa orders short barrel sks for their army, then it is military sks.

    In US the short barreled sks were sold as civilian products. Chinese government did not issue short barreled sks to their armed forces. So it is really about selling a product.

  14. #14
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    All the same parts regardless of type. Over time the production, machining and in some cases the type/configuration changed ., eg, pinned barrels vs screw in. stamped trigger groups vs milled, or omitted stripper clip guide machining cut. But all milspec parts. IMHO. Been discussed hundreds of times and will be again.
    Some of the stocks created for specific non-military rifles but use the same materials and finishes.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
    these guns are all made with Chinese Military parts and were done by the importer to make new sales and satisfy the consumer. The Chinese sks carbines came in in a large amount and they needed gimmicks to sell more and get a higher price. any paratrooper will tell you they jumped the M1 rifle Bar, and .30 brownings so who needs a shortened rifle? The Japanese had a take down rifle that came apart for jumping. but normally you do not need a shorter gun.
    The Brownings were made because the military wanted a smaller lighter carbine for those whose had extra gear to carry! The M1 carbine filled that need and it was a smaller version of the M1 Garand, The carbine was issued to Paratroopers as well as Folding stock M1A1s'!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    All the same parts regardless of type. Over time the production, machining and in some cases the type/configuration changed ., eg, pinned barrels vs screw in. stamped trigger groups vs milled, or omitted stripper clip guide machining cut. But all milspec parts. IMHO. Been discussed hundreds of times and will be again.
    Some of the stocks created for specific non-military rifles but use the same materials and finishes.
    My rifle has the markings of an issued military SKS but its a Paratrooper. So I'm guessing that is was an actual military rifle later converted to a Paratrooper. The S/N starts with 8 making it a 64' made at Jianshe (26 inside triangle) it has the three Chinese symbols between the factory stamp and s/n ( I believe they translate to "Model 56"). The S/N is stamped on the receiver, bolt, trigger group and the rear of the receiver cover all matching, the barrel alignment marks on receiver and barrel have a 34 stamped next to them. Everything is milled and it's a screw in barrel of course being a 64'. The markings would identify this as a 1964 Jianshe military issue correct? The crown work looks factory but I'm not saying it is! I understand the 16.5 barrel versions were never issued to troops. What I am saying is that I believe surplus rifles that would have been issued to troops were later modified and sold as the 16.5" variants on the civilian market. This would make some Paratroopers actual military rifles even though they were not issued in that form. If you had a machine shop shorten a surplus M1 it's still a military issue rifle, it's just been modified! I get tired of reading post after post about how these are not military rifles simply because they were never issued as a paratrooper but a great deal of them started life as full size battle ready rifles during the Cold War. And I agree this has been a topic of great debate and will continue to be for some time I'm sure. I think it would be more correct to say that the early Paratroopers are modified military surplus rifles that were never issued in that form and not that they are non military simply because they are slightly modified. Even so like you said even the parts gun were made wil MilSpec parts!
    Last edited by Gomer Pyle; 01-18-2011 at 11:02 AM.

  17. #17
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    I tried before to sort of clear all this up but maybe I didn't explain it well enough. The sks carbines that came from China are the results of a weapon that was made surplus by being replaced in the inventory. The Chinese then cleaned out the existing stocks and sold them to importers. Offered for sale at the same time were tons of spare parts from inventory. The spare parts were of no real value to importers as the carbines they bought were for the most part as new or rebuilt to new specs. The Chinese with direction from the Importers created several new guns to hasten the sales to the commercial market. These guns were made by request of the Importers and not taken from any Military stock in other than Military configuration. The guns and spare parts were all Military contract parts and guns the modifications were done useing these guns and parts . The para carbine so called (which by the way is rediculous as the carbine is short enough to jump with in its original form) was dreamed up by the importers and is in no way shape or form a Military configuration. So no matter which factory or date the guns were originally made has any refection on it originality. Paras, farmers or ranchers friends, snipers parade and other off the wall modified guns are just that modified from original Military configuration they are not Military collectables. Just commercial shooters

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
    I tried before to sort of clear all this up but maybe I didn't explain it well enough. The sks carbines that came from China are the results of a weapon that was made surplus by being replaced in the inventory. The Chinese then cleaned out the existing stocks and sold them to importers. Offered for sale at the same time were tons of spare parts from inventory. The spare parts were of no real value to importers as the carbines they bought were for the most part as new or rebuilt to new specs. The Chinese with direction from the Importers created several new guns to hasten the sales to the commercial market. These guns were made by request of the Importers and not taken from any Military stock in other than Military configuration. The guns and spare parts were all Military contract parts and guns the modifications were done useing these guns and parts . The para carbine so called (which by the way is rediculous as the carbine is short enough to jump with in its original form) was dreamed up by the importers and is in no way shape or form a Military configuration. So no matter which factory or date the guns were originally made has any refection on it originality. Paras, farmers or ranchers friends, snipers parade and other off the wall modified guns are just that modified from original Military configuration they are not Military collectables. Just commercial shooters
    I think your totally missing my point! I never tried to say that the Paratrooper was issued to troops! I tried to be as clear as possible but I will try again! Full size military rifles were made into Paratroopers. The original rifle was made to be issued to a soldier, later in it's life it was modified into a Paratrooper for the civilian market. That would make it a modified military rifle just like a sporterized 303 British is still a military rifle! I never once said a Paratrooper had any value as a military collectable just that the ones made from surplus military rifles are still military rifles IMO! The reason I'm stressing the point is it seems you have the opinion that all Paratroopers are junk parts guns and this is just not true! There are even some Sino Soviet Paratroopers out there! Cutting four inches off the barrel is the only mod done to these so they are not that different from when they were full size military issue! Like I said I have a numbers matching 1964 factory 26 Para with military markings. This would have had to have been a full size military rifle originally correct??? It would still meet ALL of the military standards of the time other than the shortened barrel length correct??? Jianshe produced ONLY military rifles from 1956 to 1971 export models are post 71' correct??? I hope this clears things up!
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  19. #19
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    I agree with both of of you because your both really saying the same thing Right ?
    Howie- " modified from original Military configuration "
    Gomer- "That would make it a modified military rifle "

    howie wasn't calling them junk by any means.......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by amac View Post
    I agree with both of of you because your both really saying the same thing Right ?
    Howie- " modified from original Military configuration "
    Gomer- "That would make it a modified military rifle "

    howie wasn't calling them junk by any means.......
    It think he thought I was saying they issued them as Paras'! We are pretty much saying the same thing! I didn't see where he said "and with import name Norinco on them" I thought at first he was saying all the Paras' were parts guns!
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  21. #21
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    Gomer,

    Let me ease this into the discussion: A Paratroop SKS is like a Tanker Garand. Never issued. Both Para and Tankers have been sold here for decades now and are what they are: not original and not issued weapons. Both may (or may not) have milspec original parts on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomer Pyle View Post
    The Brownings were made because the military wanted a smaller lighter carbine for those whose had extra gear to carry! The M1 carbine filled that need and it was a smaller version of the M1 Garand, The carbine was issued to Paratroopers as well as Folding stock M1A1s'!
    You're wrong! The M1 carbine was devised to allow personnel who would normally not be on the front lines, a means to fight should the need arise that they must be thrown into battle. It had nothing to do with how much gear a man carried. Cooks, rear echelon Jeep drivers, Ambulance drivers, mechanics, etc, all who normally wouldn't be up front, these were the people the M1Carbine was geared for.

    And it wasn't a smaller version of an M1 Garand! Two entirely different operating systems.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    You're wrong! The M1 carbine was devised to allow personnel who would normally not be on the front lines, a means to fight should the need arise that they must be thrown into battle. It had nothing to do with how much gear a man carried. Cooks, rear echelon Jeep drivers, Ambulance drivers, mechanics, all who normally wouldn't be up front, these were the people the M1Carbine was geared for.
    Officers, forward observers and paratroopers on the front all carried 'em.

    Keith

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