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Thread: century arms cetme sporter 308 HELP

  1. #1
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    Default century arms cetme sporter 308 HELP

    looking to buy a cetme what are the best ones what to look for not to get stuck with crap

  2. #2
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    the Saint albans VT are supposed to be good and they put out some limited edition models a few years back that were nice also

  3. #3
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    If you buy a Century assembled Cetme, you take a gamble if you do not know the previous owner well. There are plenty of good ones out there, but many with problems as well.

  4. #4
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    Ask what the Bolt Gap is! Don't buy it if it is between .004"-.012" Or if in person [take a set of automotive feeler gages with you].

    The gap on a New Properly Built Gun, should be close to .020" [no higher] .018"-.020"

    The actual range is .020" down to .004" [after conversion from the metric dim requirement].

    But some guns can be altered to give the you a false gap measurement. And that usually runs between my above stated [Don't Buy if You Don't Know! Range of .004"-.012"]

    Also Look down the top of the rifle, is the Receiver in line with the Cocking tube and is it in line with the barrel?
    Then from the same angle, does the Front Sight look canted to either side?
    Then look at the Gun from the side, does the Cocking Tube look tilted or bent in reguards to the Barrel?

    gw11
    Last edited by gw11; 05-21-2009 at 04:03 AM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by captbkw View Post
    looking to buy a cetme what are the best ones what to look for not to get stuck with crap

    BEFORE you go out cetme shopping, you MUST LEARN how to disassemble the gun.. the reason for this is, many of these guns have ground bolts, and its very hard to clearly see if the bolt is ground unless you know how to remove the bolt, or are experienced enough to know what you are looking for while the bolt in still in the gun.. many of the sellers may not honestly know if theirs is ground, or what one would even look like.

    I have dealt with one of these nightmare century cetmes, and I can clearly see a ground bolt through the mag well in most cases, but if you have never seen one, you really need to take the bolt out.

    Grinding down the back of the bolt was done AT CENTURY to give the gun a ''correct'' looking headspace, as the parts kits they used were often too worn out,
    and century was too cheap to even try the poor mans fix of installing oversize rollers..
    you do NOT want one if the bolt is ground.. MANY OF THE CERTURY CETME do have ground bolts.. I would not buy another one frankly..

    IF you really must buy one-
    learn how to disassemble the gun first, and tell the seller that your purchase is contingent on being able to pull the bolt/carrier to inspect the rear of the bolt for grinding..

    a ground bolt will be shiny on the back and perfectly flat.. (mine was actually ground at a angle , like it was done on the round wheel of a 40 dollar bench grinder)
    a unground bolt will have bluing and the edges of the bolt are all chamfered..
    if there is no chamfer on the back of the bolt it has been ground..

    the cetme carrier assembly is NOT intuitive to tear-down and especially NOT TO REINSTALL, (Theres a trick you need to know) and the bolt can be tricky to learn how to replace once its removed, so you may want to tear down a buddies cetme a time or two to get comfortable and know what you are doing.

    the roller locking arrangement is simply overengineered in my opinion, and doesnt really offer a benefit, it actually offers a hassle as over time due to wear, misalignment, etc.. they can be tempermental guns, even if properly constructed in the first place.. and many of the centurys are slapped together poorly with worn parts ..
    Last edited by af masterson; 05-21-2009 at 08:10 PM.

  6. #6
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    af masterson

    The Century Cetme's don't have ground bolt because the parts are worn!

    Century had a misplaced idea that Drilling the Barrel/ Trunion for pinning could be cost effective if done in Bulk. They also had the problem that they never listened to Special Weapons when they were taught how to properly set a Barrel/Trunion for pinning. Hence some barrels are double drilled and most have too little Gap and possibly ground Bolts.

    The Bolts are ground because Century set the Barrel/Trunion to too small of a Gap, [by the hundreds of barrels]. To remedy this they came up with the story that it was an acceptable practice to Shave up to .035" off the back of the bolt. And they sold them as is and eventually had to reset the barrels as warranty claims came in.

    HK and Cetme Rifles are the same.
    #1 Bolt Gap is .020" down to .004"
    #2 The Cocking Handle must have an approx .005-.015" Gap between the Cocking Handle Support and the Front of the Carrier Tube. If you have no Gap here- your Carrier is Slamming into your Cocking Tube Support every time it cycles and it is harder to release the Cocking handle and [eventually causing the Carrier to Cock to the side or Stop complete Bolt Lockup and or Crack the Cocking tube from the impact. Too much Gap and your Cocking handles "Over Cam assist" will not help when pulling the handle back.
    #3 You can use Plus size rollers to give you .004" more along the life of the Gun.
    #4
    When your gun's Bolt Gap diminishes down less than .004 w/ plus size rollers, you need to rework it [reset the barrel].

    gw11

  7. #7
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    Default CETME

    I bought mine about 2-3 years ago. The 3 I looked at neither had ground bolts. So, I am guessing Century stopped this practice about 4 years ago. I have called them and asked question about bolt gap and got some very hostile responses like: "everybody is using HK specs for these rifles, there not HK.." "There is absolutely no safety issue with shooting commercial brass." (I shoot steel case all day BTW)

    I hated that damn rifle for a solid year until I finally got what I wanted. Oh yeah, my first CETME had the MB pin protruding into the bore:eek: Got a brand new rifle with an Korean barrel. And no problem from the flutes there just as deep as the original. Accurate as hell....

  8. #8
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    I would suppose they would be voicing Angry Opinions on Bolt Gap, after all they are little Beavers!

  9. #9
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    I find that a bit strange since the HK manual Bolt Gap spec is 0.1-0.5mm [.004"- .020"]

    And the Century Cetme Manual spec is .005” and .019” as shown below, which is page 4 of their own manual.


    Page #4
    backwards and verify that the chamber is empty and
    release the cocking lever. Remove the butt stock which is
    held by two pins. Remove the grip assembly and retract
    the bolt assembly and remove it from the receiver. Remove
    the handguard. Clean the bore with a brush followed by
    patches and a commercial gun cleaner.
    To strip the bolt assembly remove the bolt head from the
    bolt assembly by turning it 90 degrees to the right and turn
    the locking piece until lug can be removed from the bolt
    head carrier. Clean parts using a cloth saturated with a
    commercial gun cleaner and relubricate lightly.
    To reassemble the bolt reverse the above procedure and
    push the head with the slanted surface under the tip of the
    locking lever. Be sure that locking rollers are in place in the
    bolt head when reassembling. To strip the grip assembly
    with the trigger mechanism, set the safety point vertically
    up, then pull the lever out and remove the grip assembly.
    Reassembly
    Reattach the handguard and insert the assembled bolt with
    the recoil spring into the receiver. Be sure that both locking
    rollers are recessed into the bolt head.
    Attach the grip assembly and set the safety lever to “S”.
    Slide the butt stock onto the receiver and insert the locking
    pins. It is always recommended to have your firearm periodically
    inspected by a qualified gunsmith.
    On the Cetme rifle head space is determined by measuring
    the gap between the bolt head and bolt head carrier. This
    measurement should be between .005” and .019”. If it is
    not, your rifle should be checked by a qualified gunsmith.
    Once the rifle has been assembled, wipe the blued surfaces
    Last edited by gw11; 05-22-2009 at 01:23 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by gw11 View Post
    I would suppose they would be voicing Angry Opinions on Bolt Gap, after all they are little Beavers!
    I have delt with Century concerning a few rifle warranty returns (3-4)... One guy "sounds young" don't know much. Another "Mr. Hostile" hates questions "there product is sound, blah,blah...," another lady is very nice and I can't remember her name but I used to ask for her spacifically. She would guarantee a fixed rifle and she always made good on her word. Mr. Hostile says all ammo is safe, which I have seen case head seperation and broken cartridges "pics online." But, there are just a couple of exploded CETME pics outhere which started a sh*t storm over CETME safety and the dreaded "Indian Ammo," which I went through 400 rnds without a hitch b/f I heard about it. The CETME seems to be a hard build for Century, nothing like the TLC put into the MARS series... These rifles are being built milking the last of the trunnions life IMHO... But a good press with a good gap and I think you can shoot it until the rolled receiver gives... I have studied the CETME more than any other rifle b/s the AR, I wouldn't accept a dime less than $900 for mine b/c of all the new parts I put into it, repair time and shipping costs. There are many other people who build them and are far more knowledgeable on the CETME

    CaptBK try a YouTube search, there a tutorials on the CETME that provide excellent information on the bolt gap and the general operation of the roller lock system.
    Last edited by jdub; 05-22-2009 at 01:44 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by gw11 View Post
    I find that a bit strange since the HK manual Bolt Gap spec is 0.1-0.5mm [.004"- .020"]

    And the Century Cetme Manual spec is .005” and .019” as shown below, which is page 4 of their own manual.


    Page #4
    backwards and verify that the chamber is empty and
    release the cocking lever. Remove the butt stock which is
    held by two pins. Remove the grip assembly and retract
    the bolt assembly and remove it from the receiver. Remove
    the handguard. Clean the bore with a brush followed by
    patches and a commercial gun cleaner.
    To strip the bolt assembly remove the bolt head from the
    bolt assembly by turning it 90 degrees to the right and turn
    the locking piece until lug can be removed from the bolt
    head carrier. Clean parts using a cloth saturated with a
    commercial gun cleaner and relubricate lightly.
    To reassemble the bolt reverse the above procedure and
    push the head with the slanted surface under the tip of the
    locking lever. Be sure that locking rollers are in place in the
    bolt head when reassembling. To strip the grip assembly
    with the trigger mechanism, set the safety point vertically
    up, then pull the lever out and remove the grip assembly.
    Reassembly
    Reattach the handguard and insert the assembled bolt with
    the recoil spring into the receiver. Be sure that both locking
    rollers are recessed into the bolt head.
    Attach the grip assembly and set the safety lever to “S”.
    Slide the butt stock onto the receiver and insert the locking
    pins. It is always recommended to have your firearm periodically
    inspected by a qualified gunsmith.
    On the Cetme rifle head space is determined by measuring
    the gap between the bolt head and bolt head carrier. This
    measurement should be between .005” and .019”. If it is
    not, your rifle should be checked by a qualified gunsmith.
    Once the rifle has been assembled, wipe the blued surfaces
    Mr. Hostile gave me this information about 2 1/2 years ago. I don't believe Century's right hand knows what the left is doing. Thats why I don't depend on them for gunsmithing information. You will never get anyone that is knowledgeable about the CETME build on the phone. And yes, why the hell would the BG #'s be different, just a few modified parts but its the same f*cking rifle! I am agreeing with you here so sorry about the possible rambling.....
    Last edited by jdub; 05-22-2009 at 01:42 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Bolt gap

    With the ground bolt the locking piece is probably banging against the inside of the bolthead. When you replace the BH you probably loose all gap and now the rollers won't properly lock out. Either way, ground or unground "in your case" rollers locking out should be a problem. Check the tip of the locking piece and see if its peened or real shiny. If anyone thinks what I have said is wrong then feel free to correct me. Its been a few years since I discussed these issues. I do remember after a while you can begin to picture exactly what the parts are doing when the bolt group cycles.

    Here's an entire page of tutorials on CETME workings it is very helpful and created by a guy that is very well known for his knowledge on the CETME.

    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...+bolt+gap&aq=f

  13. #13
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    The message is out there folks...anyone buying a century assembled rifle without the proper knowledge and a complete inspection beforehand is a idiot! Unless one enjoys the challenge of making their rifles work. Happened to me and thanks to century I improved my wescog skills immensely. They make money by assembling their products cheaply and we buy them!
    My cetme now works perfectly though it was made from a worn parts kit. I prefer it much more than my ptr 91...a nice shooting and handy rifle.
    be prepared and enjoy everyday, may be ur last!

  14. #14
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    Default cetme stock replacement

    I've seen all the pictures about cetme here and most discussion about it, someone just sold a brand new cetme 308 to me for 300.00 , I know it has problems in it's record but PLS> help me...I tried to replce the synthetic stock for a wood from Colorado arms but the bolt that holds the buttstock and the gun together will not reach , the bolt that attached. to the buffer is too short and it's a newer cetme..does anyone knows where I can buy a longer bolt to attached the buffer inside the woodstock bec. I searched many places and cannot find?? any other solution aside from putting it back in it's original stock??? thanks for all I can get info.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by beng View Post
    I've seen all the pictures about cetme here and most discussion about it, someone just sold a brand new cetme 308 to me for 300.00 , I know it has problems in it's record but PLS> help me...I tried to replce the synthetic stock for a wood from Colorado arms but the bolt that holds the buttstock and the gun together will not reach , the bolt that attached. to the buffer is too short and it's a newer cetme..does anyone knows where I can buy a longer bolt to attached the buffer inside the woodstock bec. I searched many places and cannot find?? any other solution aside from putting it back in it's original stock??? thanks for all I can get info.
    I am NOT a real knowledgeable cetme guy, other than having bought one once, so take my advice here with a grain of salt..
    but i THINK the (poly) stocks on the century cetmes are US made compliance parts, so the assembly may be different than a spanish or german stock,, I am assuming you only have the wood portion of the stock and are tying to install it into your mounting harware? You could prolly hit the home 'despot' and find a bolt or a workable length..

    If thats the case, I would check out some guns shows as I have found regularly full stock sets for as little as 25 bucks.. you could also try APEX gun parts, as thats where I once ordered some parts for mine.

    I think all their stuff is surplus though, so you may be causing yourself 922r compliance problems if you replace a us made part with a surplus imported part..
    Last edited by af masterson; 05-23-2009 at 09:48 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Gun Broker

    Quote Originally Posted by beng View Post
    I've seen all the pictures about cetme here and most discussion about it, someone just sold a brand new cetme 308 to me for 300.00 , I know it has problems in it's record but PLS> help me...I tried to replce the synthetic stock for a wood from Colorado arms but the bolt that holds the buttstock and the gun together will not reach , the bolt that attached. to the buffer is too short and it's a newer cetme..does anyone knows where I can buy a longer bolt to attached the buffer inside the woodstock bec. I searched many places and cannot find?? any other solution aside from putting it back in it's original stock??? thanks for all I can get info.
    Gunbroker used to sell the bolts. I bought a kit and got one off it. I guess you could always saw it in half lengthen it.

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