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Commercial FN Mauser Actions - My Take

92K views 103 replies 22 participants last post by  Frosty 
#1 ·
A couple of days a go I offered a (perhaps overly detailed) answer to a post on the gunboards Military Mauser Forum. The question posed concerned the differences, if any, between FN military and commercial actions. I later wished that I had started a new thread because of the better exposure to additional information and criticism available from the various gunboards experts. Therefore I offer it here.

FN “Commercial” Action/Rifle Production Changes I cannot speak directly to the various FN military mauser products. In respect of FN sporting rifle and component action production, perhaps the following information may be useful in answering the original question posed.

First two areas of concurrence with prior posts. I agree fully that prewar FN actions designated for sporting purposes appear mechanically and structurally identical to their military counterparts. I also agree that the basic quality of all FN actions appear the same regardless how employed. Final finish even within sporting actions often differed based upon the various sporting manufacturers that employed them in rifle building. Second, although I have no metallurgy expertise I would be quite surprised if the steel utilized was not the same for both military and sporting actions. In respect of barrels, I suspect that the use of chrome vanadium steel in FN barrels were exclusive to their sporting rifle. I assume FN military mauser products used good quality carbon steel as it seems unlikely that CV steel would have been required by military clients.

The following are highlights of FN commercial post WWII action production changes as they increasingly departed in features from their military brethren. .

1. Introduction in 1946 of a sporting model action. Principal modification of the military action limited to bolt handle redesign. This introduced the sweeping low scope bolt configuration that would become a signature element of the commercial line.

2. Approximately1948, significant modifications consisting of: elimination of the ‘thumb cut’ to facilitate a strengthened solid left receiver wall, elimination of elevated receiver bridge and clip loading recess, low scope safety more often incorporated on models designated for the U.S. market. “Chrome Vanadium Steel” barrel markings routinely appeared.

3. Approximately 1950, engineering modification of the so-called ‘full C’ inner receiver ring. The inner ring against which the barrel abuts was altered from a single cut necessary to accommodate the long mauser extractor, to include a second non functional cut. The modification was made for production simplification. Technically the receiver strength was slightly compromised. The practical effect was nil. It is my belief that this change was all FN mauser action production, sporting and military.

4. Early nineteen fifties: A transitioning period during which receivers were routinely tapped for telescopic sight mounts and corresponding low scope safeties always supplied. The FN logo atop the receiver ring was slowly phased out.

5. Mid nineteen fifties. Introduction of the FN Mauser “Supreme” action which incorporated a redesigned cocking piece housing and side safety lever. Their standard FN mauser action continued also to be offered for some years as a less expensive alternative..

This constituted the principal market wide course of FN mauser product development of their long extractor mauser action. One caveat in interpreting production changes. The ‘newest’ of these rifles are now fortyish years old. Manufacturer component substitutions, special orders, repairs and customizations may be erroneously misinterpreted as standard product-wide production features.

Throughout production, these FN mauser military and commercial actions stood second to none in their markets.
 
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#31 ·
FN Deluxe

I just purchased a n FN Deluxe in 30/06. I thought tha t I would share it with you. This discussion has been very interesting. One cannot learn too much.I would consider my rifle to be in 85to 90% condition with some finnish wear in a couple of spots. The receiver is of the H type and has on thumb cut or stripped guides. The shrouyd is the military style with a low scope safety. The floor plate has the extended release button. The bolt is flattened and checkered on the back side, and is swept back. This rifle has an after market recoil pad, that I would like to restore to original. The barrel is stepped but not like the military barrrel. The serial no. is in the150xx range. Is there a serial no. production reference that will date my rifle? I'm thinking 1950 or later. pic following I hope.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I just purchased a n FN Deluxe in 30/06. I thought tha t I would share it with you. This discussion has been very interesting. One cannot learn too much.I would consider my rifle to be in 85to 90% condition with some finnish wear in a couple of spots. The receiver is of the H type and has on thumb cut or stripped guides. The shrouyd is the military style with a low scope safety. The floor plate has the extended release button. The bolt is flattened and checkered on the back side, and is swept back. This rifle has an after market recoil pad, that I would like to restore to original. The barrel is stepped but not like the military barrrel. The serial no. is in the150xx range. Is there a serial no. production reference that will date my rifle? I'm thinking 1950 or later. pic following I hope.

nice rifle

the crown over the letter "B" means your rifle was made from 1951 or later- I believe that stands for King Baudouin of Belgium, who ruled from 1951 to 1993.

The other 3 letters under a crown, and the PV are Belgian proof marks.
 
#33 ·
67l36driver,
I took the action out of the stock and there is no date. Also the trigger is like the military trigger but without the double hump. There is an "A" stamped on the bottom of the action along with the number 1197. There is an "A" stamped on the bottom of the tang also. The action is drilled and taped for a reciever sight. The scope mount and Weaver 4x were added after I purchased ther rifle. Thoughts and opinions are welcome.
Thanks,
Bob
 
#40 ·
yes, it's interesting, half the fun is deciphering where the gun came from:rolleyes: It's amazing even the gun shops don't know what they really have.

I was at a gun store on Friday, looking at milsurp Mausers. What he told me was a Swedish Mauser, was actually a K.Kale Turkish. And what he told me was an Argentine, was actually an FN-made Peruvian. I bought the Peruvian FN for only $140, with tax/transfer it was $156. What a buy! It's in a rough looking Pachmyer synthetic stock, but what amazes me is, the quality of the barrel/action is better than anything that Walmart has for $500 and up brand new.

I predict these Mausers are going to come back into vogue in a big way sometime in the future, when the average shooter/hunter/gun buff realizes just how good they are, for the price. IMHO any German/FN-made M98 pattern is worth hoarding if the price is right. How can one go wrong for $150 ? A Savage 110 push feed for $500 just doesn't have the same character.
 
#38 ·
i have a early 98 FN Parker Hale, late 1950'S to 63.

thumb cut receiver, but no charger cut, black blue high
polish.:D 22 inch barrel sights on both models.,
on left side receiver in Safari de luxe' $124.95/ENG. $73.50 adj. trigger / double set offered. low scope we safety on back of bolt.
BARREL HAS PARKER HALE IN 308. this gun is VERY ACCURATE. :cool:
mine had Sile's stamped stock with snable.

found only one ad in one book :confused: .
Braxtons GUIDE FOREIGN FIREARMS COPY RIGHT 1963.
page 233-224 great book has many good mausers based guns in it 288 pages. HVS- FN-FRANCONIA-FRANCOTTE-TRYOL -BSA-MANNLICKER-KRICO-COGSWELL-BRNO-FERLACH-DECHUINIGG-HEYM-SHULTZ LARSON-WALTER-HEMMERLI-MERKEL ETC.

i had a hand pick $400 very hard walnut AA + blank from kentucky put on it in the same style, but fitted to me. knock your eyes out.:rolleyes:
they also made just a standard no snabel SAFARI $109.95/ Eng.$66.00 .all were drilled taped for scope no adj. trigger on this one. came with leather slings.
, Cal's 243,270,306,308,308 Norma, not advertised but Ive seen 7x57 for sale. most went to Canada seen them on sale there no where else.:confused:. IN US -INTERNATIONAL GUNS INC, 67 WARBURTON AV. NY. :cool:<>< DK
 
#39 ·
Santa Barbara actions on Parker Hales

Some, at least, of the Parker Hale rifles were made on Spanish Santa Barbara actions. These were also used by smaller manufacturers in the US after the supply of military 98 actions started to dry up. I remember these as being described as "rough but serviceable" compared to the FN's. The Yugoslav actions that Heym used on the western Field contract rifles was derived from the Model 1924/ 48 type intermediate length with enclosed bolt head. The later Mark X was a straight FN clone. :)
 
#41 ·
FN Mausers

A gunshop in my area has a Colt Mauser in .243 Winchester, its
been there for awhile. I like FNs myself, and once owned a factory
sporter in .250-3000 several years ago. At one time Ive been told
FN actions sold very well and were all the rage in the gunsmithing
trade.
 
#43 · (Edited)
A gunshop in my area has a Colt Mauser in .243 Winchester, its
been there for awhile. I like FNs myself, and once owned a factory
sporter in .250-3000 several years ago. At one time Ive been told
FN actions sold very well and were all the rage in the gunsmithing
trade.

that caliber commands a premium in any rifle, be it Remington, Winchester, Ruger, etc., or milsurp sporter. It's hard to find anything chambered in 250 Savage, for less than $500 anywhere- there was a Ruger M77 for $300 in the local paper and it was gone in 1/2 a day- and another was a single shot break open T/C barrel for $300, and that was barrel only- I anted up last winter and bought a Ruger M77 w/20" barrel for $540 OTD because I got tired of waiting for a deal. If I could find a 22" barreled gun, I'd trade over to it. I was dead set on a Savage model 99 but just can't seem to find a deal on one.
 
#44 ·
Re 1896swede's FN

I've had a chance to catch up only a bit on the later posts here. (I echo the general observation that there certainly is a lot to learn from the community of posts!)

Naturally, like a four year old, I'm attracted first to color photos. So I'd just like to contribute a couple of comments for swede1896. First, congrats on your nice FN. My guesstimate is that it was manufactured in the 1952-53 period. The 10,000 to 11,500 serial range (approximately) were produced in 1951 per barrel dating which appeared on some (but curiously not all) FN sporting rifles made in that year. (See exemplary rifle photo from this range) By 1950, FN production was ramping up a bit, but I think it unlikely that they were producing more than a couple of thousand rifles per year at the very most. In some subsequent years I believe that they produced substantially less. Also, in all probability their sporting work filled in between the larger military contracts. (Recall that the FN 49 semi auto rifle production was also ramping up then.) In those times they seem to have geared sporting production to orders. That is, they did not likely warehouse large sporting rifle inventories against which orders were periodically filled. Also of course, only complete FN branded rifles were accounted in the FN serial range. This meant that substantial numbers of actions to be sold were accounted in production figures but not captured in serialization. You also reference the flattened and checkered underside of the bolt ball on your rifle. This was something of a unique identifier for their sporting action whereas FN based Husqvarna rifles likely specified an unaltered full ball pattern.
 
#45 ·
You also reference the flattened and checkered underside of the bolt ball on your rifle. This was something of a unique identifier for their sporting action whereas FN based Husqvarna rifles likely specified an unaltered full ball pattern.


interesting, the Peruvian 1935 Mondelo sporter I recently acquired, has a flat/checkered underside on bolt, i.e. someone either changed the bolt handle, or changed the entire bolt.
 
#51 · (Edited)
that is a fine rifle, and a fine specimen of old school craftsmanship- but if I could add something with all due respect, that type of peep sight is all but passe'- to my knowledge no one uses them anymore for hunting, and the only target shooters using them would be those required to do so by some sanctioning body match rules. The problem with peep sights for hunting is, they block the field of view. When the shooter ages, and I'm in this category at age 47, we need a scope to see and shoot like a young man again. I have a hard time focusing the front/rear open sights on my BCD Mauser with the target, and will have to get it drilled/tapped for scope soon so I can shoot it with a high degree of accuracy.

on another note, my Kodiak went to its new owner yesterday, he was quite happy with it.
 
#52 ·
I agree on your belief on the peep sight. This rifle was built many years ago when "peeps" were more in vogue. One other advantage to "peeps" is they do no obscure the rifles inherent beauty. If you check out custom rifle makers many still offer peep sights. Probably so the "art" of their work is not covered by a ugly rifle scope.:eek:
 
#53 · (Edited)
With High Respect for Receiver Sights

If ‘art’ can be expressed in a fine rifle, then certainly original/period accessories are not only appropriate but can definitely enhance value. I do appreciate the fact that for hunting, kills should be clean and humane. To that extent I would suppose, if a scope provides required assurance then by all means its use is most appropriate. But I don’t believe that hunting is just about extreme shots. Rather it still embraces the qualitative factors of good gun, patience and skill. Perhaps it can be said that the receiver sight optimizes skill at the most refined metallic sight level.

In both shooting and collecting, there also certainly remains a place for using a quality receiver sight. Matches with metallic sights are not engaged as ‘penalty’ work.. If such sights were only a downside, they would undoubtedly cease to exist in sport. It is rather again a matter of skill, pitting man and rifle at a more classically ‘elemental’ level. Further, metallic sights simply possess greater casualty 'survivability’ than optics.

From a collector’s perspective, what should be done with those rifles which came from the factory equipped only with a receiver sight? Examples would include some Winchesters, Remingtons, Savages to name a few. Should their originality be compromised in the name of ‘modernization’? I think not and the collector marketplace seems to clearly agree.

This is not an argument against technology per se and certainly not to disdain telescopic sights. Obviously they have their place and they have claimed the field as the sighting device of choice for the broadest spectrum of shooting sports. Conversely, it is not to say that every rifle can or should benefit from a receiver sight. Hanging them on some rifles may provide utility while at once creating an esthetic mess and compromising value. But for many who appreciate the ‘real steel ‘of a good rifle, a quality receiver sight can be a logical enhancement, particularly when properly incorporated in a rifle for which the factory made provision.

As a last point, observe please the prices that good quality receiver sights fetch nowadays. A good Lyman 48 receiver sight for popular rifles such as Mausers, Springfields or Winchesters can bring 10x to 15x of their original new price in the nineteen fifties. Such marketability reflects both the demand and the respect accorded these small mechanical wizards that can still so superbly align rifle with target!

With due credit to some of the optical masterpieces available today, there remain those wonderful rifles for which the receiver sight provides both period sighting equipment and the aura of pure mechanical sophistication.

Perhaps the epitome of the collectibility argument is represented by an ‘original’ receiver sight configuration expressed in the U.S. Springfield Armory “NRA Sporter” wearing its ‘issue’ Lyman model 48.
Photos appended.

///

Addendum: JimmyC, your rifle is indeed a work of art. It obviously was never equipped with either open (barrel) rear sight or equipped for scope mounting. It is exactly and precisely original in this respect. I believe that the value could only be diminished by any alteration. The Jerry Fisher stock is superb in style and execution. Congratulations on a wonderful piece exuding quality!
 
#54 · (Edited)
if one actually wants to shoot their vintage gun at distances 100+ yards, sights becomes a matter of personal choice and need, based on one's age and eyesight

I like to shoot my guns, but at my age I can't use open sights effectively anymore beyond 50 yards or so, for accurate target shooting. The human eye muscles at my age (47) weaken to the point it becomes difficult to focus the rear sight, front sight, and target together. One or more become blurred. I can still shoot the gun to "minute-of-deer" to 100+ yards, but as accurate as I would like for punching holes in targets.

With a scope, the eyepiece and (sometimes) the objective, can be adjusted to fit the shooter's eyesight, and then suddenly a middle aged or old man, can see like a young man again.

there's no comparison, the scope is better for the over-40 crowd, and actually a properly drilled/tapped scope mounted gun has more value to me, than an open sighted gun- because to drill/tap and buy mounts/rings costs additional money. If it's already done and there, the gun will be easier to sell to someone such as myself, who actually wants to shoot it often, or hunt with it.

collectibility is another issue- but that too depends on the value, i.e. I'm not worried about scoping a $500 milsurp action Mauser- because what's $500 these days ? small potatoes, can't even buy a Walmart Savage 110 for that price

If it was a $5000 gun, then yes that would be another issue. But basically, when I see those vintage peep sights on a rifle that is a true "shooter", and not a "wall hanger" or "safe queen"- the first thing that comes to mind is, that would have to come off, and the gun drilled/tapped for scope mounts. If that's already done, it's a big relief to me.
 
#55 ·
Well,

This one obviously isn't D&T for scope mount... and it's a real keeper. Those peep sights can be adjusted quite easily with a new aperture dia, and even a new front sight or with a target type sight, fitting the same bolt pattern.
But personally, I wouldn"t touch it. And I am the kind of guy who shoots and hunt with his collectibles.
 
#56 · (Edited)
That is a beautiful rifle. I do like the older FN stamp on the top of the receiver. I recently picked up a very nice FN Mauser Supreme in .308 Win that was imported as a Musketeer II by Firearms International. As the last of the FN Mauser Supreme actions brought in by FI, it had the pot-metal trigger-guard/floorplate. I've just sent off the proper steel trigger-guard I got from Numrich to be hot blued to match the rest of the gun. Will need a bit of inletting on the front and then will be ready to go. Couldn't agree more with de Haas about the quality of the FN Mauser Supreme action. Simply exudes quality. Like a pre-64 Model 70.

Now a questiion. I would like to have mine rebarreled and am wondering who might be a recommended gunsmith to do so with mine. Thanks.
 
#57 ·
1934 Mauser 350Rem Mag

I am a relatively new collector and seem to be in the right place to find more info on this beautiful Gun I would like to get as much info and the value of this as possible anything will be appreciated thanks its a 1934 Mauser 350 rem that has been customized I am guessing in 1967 but that's where I'm not sure of anything else it has the spoonbill bolt with the 3 flip up sites last one being 500yds I think there known as leaf sites and there is an added safety to the rear of the bolt also has claw mounts for the scope the steel is a beautiful blue color and the finish is a gorgeous glossy wood grain I'll try to figure out how to put pics on here soon thanks again for your comments they are very appreciated
 
#58 · (Edited)
New Thread Recommended

Hi ARMED,
Nice looking rifle, but you're in a bit of the wrong place here. This series is primarily about Belgian made Fabrique Nationale mausers. Your rifle action is a German Oberndorf produced mauser that began life in military rifle configuration. Yet a rifle of quite high quality manufacture. No harm done in posting here but if you don't get sufficient attention, consider reposting it as a new thread in this forum. Congratulations on your nice rifle!
Good luck!
 
#61 ·
For ARMED

First let me observe that the fact you can competently post photos means that you have mastered a bigger hurdle. So congrats upon that. At the beginning of this forum containing the various threads list, on the left side you will see the "NEW THREAD' button. Click on that to open a new post screen. From there it's just the same as an addition within an existing post.
Nice extra photos of a nice gun! Thanks!
 
#62 ·
Hi all,

First post here. I recently took my father's long guns into my custodianship. I did some searches to learn more about them, and when I looked up our .338 Win Mag, google led me here. I thought I'd add what I know about it and a couple pictures.

The story behind this rifle is... in the 60's and early 70's my father, uncle, and grandfather were all avid hunters. Dad took an elk with his .308, decided it took too many shots to drop the animal, and went shopping. A 338 Win Mag made sense then, as it would now :) To me, this (along with the aforementioned .308) will ALWAYS be "Dad's Rifle", but his health has been not-so-great these days, and my parents moved into a townhouse recently where they have no use for long guns so here they are.

All I really remember him saying about the rifle was "it's a custom Mauser action with a Bishop stock". The receiver is drilled and tapped for Redfield two-position scope mounts. It has Weaver rings and a Redfield 1-4x scope from the late 60's. Jeweled bolt, sliding commercial-style safety, hinged floor plate.

There isn't too much for visible markings on the assembled rifle. The left side of the barrel simply says "338 WIN". On the left side of the action is the FN oval and "Action - Made In Belgium". The stock does have Bishop markings, at least on the recoil pad.

Today I removed the barreled action to clean and oil everything, and see what I could see. Turns out the stock is fiberglass bedded. There are "67" markings on both the action and barrel... not sure if Dad bought this rifle new or not, I'll have to ask him.

There are also a couple of the typical Belgian proof marks.. number 1 and number 19 off this page http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html On the barrel there is "PREM 1-10 ..67.." and also "BLU J.R." and a smaller "M". I think the barrel MAY be a Douglas premium, but I'm not sure at this time. The 1-10 is almost certainly the rifling twist. Seems everything was made in 1967.

There are various other markings, not sure which have meaning to anyone anymore, the trigger assy is marked "FINLAND" (Sako, I imagine).

Anyways, I'd be interested if anyone has anything to add about the possible origin of this rifle... what maker might have put it together and where or whatever. I guess estimated value would be interesting although selling it will be someone else's problem, after I'm gone.

She's not a mint-condition safe queen... she was a hunter and a shooter... but considering the rifle is older than me, I'd say she's also in better shape :lol:

If I can get better pictures with a decent camera I'll update this post but here's what I have to offer for now.



 
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