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  1. #1
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    Nov 2008
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    Default 7.65 x 53 Mauser cartridge

    I fired 15 rounds of this caliber ammo through a Peruvian Mauser sporter yesterday, this is a VERY accurate gun for the price.

    Comparing the 7.65 mm brass with a 7x57/8x57/9x57, 308 Winchester, and 30-06, much to my surprise, the case actually appears has more case capacity than the 57mm length Mauser round. Although the 7.65mm is shorter overall, the shoulder is HIGHER than the 57mm case, meaning the larger diameter is higher up on the case to hold more powder. Expecting it to look smaller than the 57mm case, it actually looks bigger held side by side !

    The 7.65 is noticeably much larger than the 308 Winchester in case capacity, and nearly as large at the 30-06 case. The 7.65 mm kicks more than the 57mm case as well, it actually shoots/recoils like an '06
    Last edited by locknloadnow; 07-02-2009 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dec 1969
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    San Antonio, Texas
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    Default Cartridge Comparisons

    lockandloadnow, check this out for a visual comparison: http://philipbeekley.com/cartridges.htm.

    I have shot all the different cartridges you mention (but always in their full original mil-spec stocks), and my experience was that the 7x57 was the mildest, with the 7.63 Argy the next mildest, not near the recoil of the .30-06. I wonder if the perceived recoil was stouter since you were shooting a sporterized, and therefore lighter, stock? (The lighter the stock, the more the recoil will be felt against the shooter's shoulder.)
    StraightShooter

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  3. #3
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    Default

    The 7.65X53 is also loaded to a lesser pressure than the 30-06 Sprg.
    The MAP of the 7.65X53 (and the 8X57IS) is 3900 bar (56565 PSI).
    Coagula / Solve

    Baribal; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baribal

  4. #4
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    Nov 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beeker77 View Post
    lockandloadnow, check this out for a visual comparison: http://philipbeekley.com/cartridges.htm.

    I have shot all the different cartridges you mention (but always in their full original mil-spec stocks), and my experience was that the 7x57 was the mildest, with the 7.63 Argy the next mildest, not near the recoil of the .30-06. I wonder if the perceived recoil was stouter since you were shooting a sporterized, and therefore lighter, stock? (The lighter the stock, the more the recoil will be felt against the shooter's shoulder.)

    yes, the stock is a synthetic and quite light. also the bullets are on the heavy side round nose, they look to be at least 180 grain- got them with the rifle- the ammo is berdan primed

    notice the shoulder on the 7.65 is slightly higher than the 7x57, that was the comparison I made- and much higher than the 308 Win

    my previous OP statement contains an error, here's my point:

    the 7.65 x 53 has a higher shoulder than the 7x57 case, one would expect the opposite to be true- this higher shoulder gives the 7.65 more powder capacity than one would expect, in relation to the more popular 57 mm case length.

    and the 7.65 x 53 shoulder is nearly equal in height as the 8x57 and 9x57, i.e. the 7.65 is quite a powerful cartridge indeed, within 100-200 fps of a 30-06 easily

    the 7.65 is quite larger in case capacity, than a 6.5 x 55, or 308 Winchester

    I just put them all side by side and took a picture, see below

    left to right, 308 Win- 6.5x58- 7x57- 7.65x53- 9x57- and 30/06

    Last edited by locknloadnow; 07-03-2009 at 08:01 AM.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baribal View Post
    The 7.65X53 is also loaded to a lesser pressure than the 30-06 Sprg.
    The MAP of the 7.65X53 (and the 8X57IS) is 3900 bar (56565 PSI).


    The 30-06 is 58,700 psi- practically the same pressure as the 7.65 in factory loading. Only a 2,000 psi difference. For all practical purposes, that is the same cartridge, you can load down a 30-06 to 7.65 specs. And you can handload up a 7.65 to 30-06 specs, especially in a rifle as strong as a Mauser 98 action, or other modern action.

    The 7.65 x 53 and the 30/06 are obviously kissin' cousins when compared side by side, 2 very similar cartridges, pic attached

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Laramie, WY area.
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    Default 7.65 chambered in a lot of 1890's steel firearms

    The US might have done well to just adopt the 7.65 mm Belgian/Turk/Argentine but they didn't- probably because they already had a bunch of 30 caliber bullets left over from adopting the .30/40 Krag. They made the .30/03 case plenty big to use the 220 grain bullet because they had had a mis-adventure trying to speed up 220 grain velocities in the Krag to get a flatter trajectory. They were still planning on shooting horses in those days (calvary charges) and wanted the heavy bullet. Truth is, a lot of cartridge improvement for small arms was in place by 1914 and we have seen mostly tweaking since. The .308 Winchester can be loaded to high pressures by the factories because the case was designed for semi-auto/auto use from the start and nothing was chambered for it before 1952. (I know about the military 1893/1895's and others being rebuilt by certain countries but I do not think it was such a great idea! Same for an 1891 reamed to .30/06!!) There are .30/06 rifles factory chambered almost as old as the 7.65's. The .30/06 will normally exceed the 7.65 or the .308 at equivalent pressures because of the bigger case. I have Argentines in both 1891 and 1909 actions and load to be comfortable shooting the 1891. I once jammed a .338 Winchester Magnum round a suprisingly long way into a .30/06 chamber and so I doubt I could keep two levels of 7.65 loads separate.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    292

    Default

    The 7.65x53 Belgian/Argentine and the 7.5 swiss is one of the oldest rimless rifle cartridges next to the 7.92x57/8mm mauser. I enjoy shooting the 1891 rifle with it's nice inline protruding magazine. Purists don't worry, "it can be put back at anytime" but I removed part of the rear sight and the grooves on the base make a nice spot for scope rings and scope to mount to forward of the reciever. That late Victorian "New fangled Smokless pole" will group just nice aways out there

  8. #8
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    Dec 1969
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    Winterland, Canada
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    Default

    4050 bar (58740 PSI) is the CIP MAP pressure. SAAMI specifies 50 000 CUP or 60 000 PSI for the 30-06.
    Anyways, it's the same, the measurement method is different.

    SAAMI / CIP standard pressure; http://kwk.us/pressures.html

    For case volume comparison (from my own brass), the 30-06 Sprg contains 68.5 grains, the 7.65X53 contains 57 grains of water and the 8X57IS contains 63 grains. For a different POV (averaged);
    http://kwk.us/cases.html


    The felt recoil have two components;

    - Free Recoil Energy (ft-lbs);
    - And pulse speed (or recoil velocity) in f/s ;
    You will find a calculator here;
    http://kwk.us/recoil.html

    and the explantion here;
    http://www.zknives.com/bali/brecoil.shtml
    Coagula / Solve

    Baribal; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baribal

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    150

    Default

    The 7.65x53 has fascinated me for years, and it can easily be hot loaded (se the Norma 7.65mm Argentine ammo), so enjoy the cartridge in a strong Mauser 98 action, and be very careful with the older 1891 and earlier Mausers in this caliber. My current 7.65x53 is a VZ 1933 for the Buenos Aries Police.

    LLS

  10. #10
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    Dec 1969
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    4,108

    Default

    Some of the velocities quoted for the 7.65 are taken form 29" barreled rifles.
    When this is done it always looks good compared to other .30s.
    That said neither the .30-40 Krag, the 30-06 nor the .308 would have been needed if the US had adopted the 7.65 long ago.
    In fact it may be better than any of the above. Large powder capacity, adequate neck, and it has more body taper for better feeding than the 7.62 Nato.

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