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Thread: chinese mausers

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    Default chinese mausers

    did anyone see the article on them in this month's american rifleman? superb i thought. but,i know nothing about these. thought the authors had it nailed down pretty good. pics of some chinese guns way beyond condition of any i have ever seen.

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    Just got it in the mail today and it looks interesting. I'm sure it will be a good read.

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    John Wall is online now Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosin46 View Post
    did anyone see the article on them in this month's american rifleman? superb i thought. but,i know nothing about these. thought the authors had it nailed down pretty good. pics of some chinese guns way beyond condition of any i have ever seen.
    Thanks! The Mausers are mine. It tooks only 15 years of searching to find those three. The Chiang Kai Shek rifle is one of ony two I've ever seen that is matching.

    By the way, the rifles and photos are from the Chinese chapter of "Bolt Action Military Rifles of the World" by Stuart Mowbrary and Joe Puleo, both Gunboards members.
    Regards,
    John

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    As soon as I glanced at the article, I saw it was directly from the book. It's a nice little read and it's good that it will reach a large audience. It also reminded me how great the pictures and artwork in the book are. I really recommend this book to any collector of military rifles. Advanced collectors will want more detail on specific rifles, but it's the best general interest book on the subject I've seen.

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    I received my copy today. Very informative! I have seem a couple of Chiang Kai Shek rifles at a nearby gun shop recently, but did not know much about them, so I found this article to be very interesting. I am now quite tempted to pick up a copy of "Military Bolt Action Rifles of the World" for myself.

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    The photos are nice but the article contains errors, such as about the Hanyang Type rifles dating and some captions. Mauser Military Rifles of the World by Robert Ball has fewer errors in the China section. Unfortunately, we still do not have a completely accurate source about Chinese bolt rifles in the English language. I have Mobray & Puleo's book, too, and I am happy with it. It has its own good points but, like most books, it is not perfect.

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    The text I replied in another thread:

    Regarding the article in American Rifleman, there are some points to ponder:
    1. Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931,not “beginning of WWII”.
    2. The markings insert caption - 5 & 6 are incorrect. 5 point star has always been the Hanyang/the 1st Arsenal mark. The 21st was never called Nanjing Arsenal, it’s called Jinling Arsenal before it’s renamed.
    3. Regarding the Hanyang, it should also show the earlier mark with “year – star – month”. All Hanyang produced Hanyang rifles bore that marking during the Republic. Even the earlier 21st produced Hanyang rifles bore year – reversed swastika- month marking. The 21st later switched to banner type.
    4. The 1907 type rifles production started in 1907 in Kwangtung (Guang dong) Arsenal, not 1916. Later others joined and all of them were made in 6.8mm not 7.9mm until around 1917.
    5. The “Chiang Kai Shek” (Zhong Zheng Shi) rifle featured is marked “37”. While the author teaches us how to tell Chinese date, the caption still said it’s made in 1937. It’s marking indicates that it was made in the 21st, not Hanyang.
    6. The Kung Hsien(Gong Xian) Arsenal used double diamond symbol, period, not “a number of marks”. And they were the first one to produce Chiang Kai Shek rifles, they’re not “Other Chiang Kai Shek Rifles”

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    John Wall,

    Yet another reason it's great to have you on this forum. I, for one, appreciate the many, many years of research and effort that you share on this forum and in articles like the one referenced here.

    Thank you!
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryg View Post
    Unfortunately, we still do not have a completely accurate source about Chinese bolt rifles in the English language.
    now that's funny.

    when i lived in china i had some friends in the local military that reminded me that this entire period of chinese history is rather sketchy. the shi years were erradicated from the record by the maoists, part and parcel. the cultural revolution completed the deed. the truth is, not even the chinese know what happened, and it continues to this day. my wife was born in henan in 1982, and learned an entirely different 20th century history than is taught anywhere else in the world, especially in light of the 1920-1960 period.

    some of the china mausers have character inscriptions that are difficult to interpret. the character is all traditional style, rather than simplified, so a taiwanese would be better prepared to read it than a mainlander. the pictographs are sometimes unique to the local militia group which they represented, and not part of the widely understood written language, being created for the purpose of identifying a particular militia group. one such i have is roughly translated as "waves driven by strong wind".

    the stock stampings from guns that went through larger state arsenals are multiple character and complex. the guns stored in smaller arsenals may have single or double character stampings unique to the arsenal, and influenced by the particular warlord who ran the show on that hectare.

    to understand the variation in markings, you must understand the confusion of the era. stillwell's biography Stillwell In China describes it well. the shi government was tenuous at best, and limited in influence. mercenaries from across europe lent influence to warlords for cash in hand and women in bed. must have been one hell of a time. i lived in china 70 years too late for the real fun.

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