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The Mysterious Belgian Shotgun

27K views 35 replies 18 participants last post by  jjk308 In Memoriam RIP 
#1 · (Edited)
#4 · (Edited)
What are the proofs? If the ELG/* in oval has a crown over it, then after mid-1893. No crown, then before that date. Almost certainly no later than mid-1914. The "Belgium" stamp indicates a date after one of the US tariff acts (mid-1890s, can't recall exact date - 1894 or 1896, I think) that required nation of origin markings on imported items (including firearms)

I show Acme Arms Co. as a trade name used by Cornwall Hardware Co. in NY (and I wouldn't be surprised to learn, others as well). So - you have a Belgian gun made sometime from the mid-1890s to mid-1914, for a hardware company in New York and marked for it. Utility gun, useful when new and of modest interest now but little cash value. I'd say, in current economy and pictured condition, $125-150, and mainly as a decorator. It isn't a gun I'd feel comfortable shooting, what with the Damascus tubes, age, and who knows what care and use in the past before being left in an attic for years. It probably sold for maybe $10 new, possibly less.
 
#9 ·
What are the proofs? If the ELG/* in oval has a crown over it, then after mid-1893. No crown, then before that date. Almost certainly no later than mid-1914. The "Belgium" stamp indicates a date after one of the US tariff acts (mid-1890s, can't recall exact date - 1894 or 1896, I think) taht required nation of origin markings on imported items 9including firearms)

I show Acme Arms Co. as a trade name used by Cornwall Hardware Co. in NY (and I wouldn't be surprised to learn, others as well). So - you have a Belgian gun made sometime from the mid-1890s to mid-1914, for a hardware company in New York and marked for it. Utility gun, useful when new and of modest interest now but little cash value. I'd say, in current economy and pictured condition, $125-150, and mainly as a decorator. It isn't a gun I'd feel comfortable shooting, what with the Damascus tubes, age, and who knows what care and use in the past before being left in an attic for years. It probably sold for maybe $10 new, possibly less.
I mostly agree with Clyde. From myself I will add that this thing is not worth buying, period. Save your money. If you do not want to save money, then buy something worthwhile like CZ-82, Romanian TT, Polish TT or Yugoslav TT, these things will appreciate in value. There are old shotguns that are valuable, this particular one is not one of them.
 
#17 ·
Belgian companies produced a lot of cheap firearms for export back then.
I agree with all the comments above; if you can clean it up nicely it could make a nice piece to hang over the fireplace; but again, it's nothing special.
If it is very very cheap you might consider it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
BTW: In belgium we speak Flemish and French. Gunmaking industry was (is) located in the french speaking part of the country. So most belgian guns are marked in French, except the ones obviously made for export.
Best regards, A
 
#18 ·
There are many fine Belgian shotguns. But in the USA their reputation was swamped by a flood of cheap imports like the one you show whose domestic competition were the inexpensive hardware store guns made by Crescent/Folsom, slightly better than the Belgians but still clunkers.
 
#19 ·
There are many fine Belgian shotguns. But in the USA their reputation was swamped by a flood of cheap imports like the one you show whose domestic competition were the inexpensive hardware store guns made by Crescent/Folsom, slightly better than the Belgians but still clunkers.
Make that "Davenport, H&A, Crescent et al, often slightly better" and you'll have it nailed, Jake.
 
#20 ·
In French we call this type of gun:" Quincaillerie Liégoise". One could translate it as "Some hardware junk from Liège". See it this way: "Not all Belgian frenched fries are edible ... some are dangerous for your health" :rolleyes:.
Cheap Belgian guns of the past didn't gain any quality in aging. I'm Belgian, so you may be inclined to believe me on my word.

BTW, would the English word "laminated" be the same as "Damast steel"? A REAL Damast steel barrel would never have been mounted on a cheap gun. There was/is "false Damast" of course (acid you know!).
 
#21 · (Edited)
There were a variety of types of "Damascus" steel barrel blanks. The least in quality are usually called "laminated" and they really are. Usually just a couple of skelps brought to red heat and wound spirally around the mandrel, MAYBE twisted together in the process, and hammer-welded. Cheap enough to use on cheap guns. And NOT of high quality.
 
#24 ·
Yes, that isn't a problem. In fact, there are BP-charged factory shells available from specialty sources so you don't even have to roll your own. BUT - there are other potential problems with Damascus-type tubes, especially those of the least expensive varities, exacerbated by questionable storage over a long period. Just not a gun most of us would feel great comfort with shooting without taking steps to insure it is "in proof", the cost of which would exceed the value of the gun by some significant multiple. Probably three or four times the cost, maybe more.
 
#25 ·
A friend tried to sell me one just like it once, cept in much better shape, for a hundred dollars. I passed.
Wallhanger for a shed or cabin. Never would I shoot it or the one in this thread. Afraid to say its not worth a hill of beans.
Steamer
 
#26 ·
fcw60

i have the same gun in 16 gauge(acme). i use it to kill squirrels and rabbits. no offense , but yours makes mine look brand new. i also have a excelsior (belgium 12 gauge) and 1887 ithaca baker 12 gauge double. i reload brass shells with black powder. kids think i'm crazy , when i use them on clays and doves.
 
#27 ·
Laminated, damascus, whatever tends to corrode and crack along the weld lines. Some enthusiasts have even resorted to Xraying the barrels for flaws but without very good results. You can easily end up holding a bunch of steel and iron wires instead of a shotgun barrel, even with black powder loads.
 
#29 ·
Spent a good deal of time searching on this one...
There were "hardware store" exports, made to be sold cheaply to the average farmer in need of a reliable double barrel, and then there were high grade fancy and ornate shotguns competing with some of the best makers in England at the time.

I was attracted to this one, covered in dust, sitting in a rack in a little gun shop. It didn't move for over a year and finally the price came down. Found it under the tree one Christmas.
Just a damned pretty wall hanger and the damascus barrels really stand out. It is hand engraving and finely done on all areas, including screw heads!
 
#32 ·
I have an Acme shotgun. I have no idea what the guage is. It is in fairly decent condition. My dad left it to me prior to passing on. He alerted me to the issue on Damascus Steel. Im more interested in finding some decent rustic looking hooks to hang it and my Beaumont Vitaly on the wall than I am finding cartridges for shooting them.
 
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