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  1. #1
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    Default Fireball load for Mosin-Nagant carbine

    Does anyone have a favorite fireball load for a M44 carbine?
    I want to load some just for fun , not worried about accuracy or velocity.
    I will be using pulled 150 grain .311 diameter FMJ bullets from Wideners and once fired Prvi-Partizan brass. I have several powders available;IMR 4320, H4895, IMR4198, H414, Red Dot, Blue Dot, and Accurate #5.
    Thanks in advance.
    kyswede

  2. #2
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    Actually the rifle powders you have wont produce that kind of a fireball that you seek I assume your looking for milsurp ammo flame thrower and shock and awe effect?:D
    What you need and want is slow burning powders ! H380 and slower preferably ball powders. and use a regular non mag primer!
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
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    Why not just buy some milsurp ammo if all you want is the fireball and you're not concerned with accuracy or velocity?


    .
    "The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament..."

    I'm starting, to suspect that I, don't know how to use commas.

  4. #4
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    The only surplus 7.62x54R ammo I have is Czech silver tip. It doesn't make a very big fireball compared to the Prvi-Partizan 203 grain soft point I have been shooting. I plan to reload some serious ammo for my 2 91/30s,
    2 M44s,and my M38, but I just want some shock-n-awe loads to start out. Maybe the lighter bullet in the Czech has something to do with the small fireball.
    kyswede

  5. #5
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    You're gonna wear out alot of brass quickly.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyswede View Post
    The only surplus 7.62x54R ammo I have is Czech silver tip. It doesn't make a very big fireball compared to the Prvi-Partizan 203 grain soft point I have been shooting. Maybe the lighter bullet in the Czech has something to do with the small fireball.
    kyswede
    The reason is the heavier bullet is loaded with a slower burning powder and does not burn completely/effeciently in the shorter barrelled carbines. The CZ light ball is loaded with a powder "similar" in burn rate to 4895

    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
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    Please excuse my failing memory. I checked the last box of Prvi ammo I have and the bullet weight is 150 grains. I must have been thinking about the box of Barnual 203 gr. hunting ammo I got at a gun show. Also the pulled bullets from Wideners are 147 gr. not 150 gr.
    Has anyone noticed a difference in fireballs between Russian,Hungarian or Bulgarian surplus? Maybe I need to try something besides the Czech light ball.
    kyswede

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyswede View Post
    Does anyone have a favorite fireball load for a M44 carbine?
    I want to load some just for fun , not worried about accuracy or velocity.
    I will be using pulled 150 grain .311 diameter FMJ bullets from Wideners and once fired Prvi-Partizan brass. I have several powders available;IMR 4320, H4895, IMR4198, H414, Red Dot, Blue Dot, and Accurate #5.
    Thanks in advance.
    kyswede
    I also have to add, fireball load. That is a new "term" for me, although I understand the meaning.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  9. #9
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    Back in March of this year my son and daughter-in-law came in from Germany (both in Army). We had a family get together with the usual shooting of many firearms. There were about 15 people and about 20 guns ranging from 22s to 8mm Mausers. The crowd favorite was my Mosin-nagant M38 carbine. Everyone loved the muzzle blast and big fireball it produced.
    kyswede

  10. #10
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    Default Fireball Powders

    Hi
    I have two powders for you. One is H335 the other is Ball C2. They both produce a Lot of flame out of a fairly short barrel. A moderate load out of my 18" 7.65 Arg Carbine really lights up. It is accurate too. They are also good powders for the 223 round in a mini 14. If you use these powders in much longer barrels you will not have the fire or much less of it.
    n.h.schmidt

  11. #11
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    If my memory serves right .I always thought the Albanian and Chinese LB loads were the biggest flame producers in my carbines.I do know it makes the most noise when I load the pulled down powder in my 223 ,Every highpower shooter on the line knows when my rifle goes off, but good consistant powder though.


    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the help everyone, I will try some of the powders suggested.
    kyswede

  13. #13
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    Default

    What exactly is the point?

  14. #14
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    I concur about BL-C2 producing a huge flash.

  15. #15
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    The formula should be easy.

    Just look for the slowest burning powder listed for 7.62X54R in your reloading manual (or, even better, the slowest powder you can find after checking several manuals) and keep inching the charge up TOWARDS, BUT NOT OVER the maximum recommended charge weight until you either get the results you are looking for, or you get pressure signs.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhBee View Post
    What exactly is the point?
    Eventually someone wants to reload for reasons never posted on the internet. Quite an achievement
    when one considers the competition .

    Never say never. Reloading for flash is a new one on me. Can't say I ever read a reloading book that addresses this requirement.
    Last edited by milprileb; 02-08-2015 at 05:49 AM.

  17. #17
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    Wouldn't using .308" diameter bullets cause a fireball affect being the smaller diameter will let gasses pass the bullet???

  18. #18
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    Czech bxn-65 surplus had very little "flash" FWIW

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by landtoy80 View Post
    Wouldn't using .308" diameter bullets cause a fireball affect being the smaller diameter will let gasses pass the bullet???
    Nope, that won't work because the 308 bullets don't have much blow-by. Despite this myth that they leak lots of gas due to the .002-.003" difference in bore diameter they really don't. In fact the bullet itself seems to upset and fill that micro tiny space quite well. I know guys who are shooting .308 bullets in various 310-312" bore rifles in competition and doing very well. Guys are shooting Mosins and 303 Enfield snipers using 175gr Sierra matchkings and finding they get better accuracy than some of the "proper" 311" bullets out there will do. So no better for flame.......
    I ran 308 pulldown tracers through my PKM and Bren guns and found they matched the ballistics of the 54R light ball better than they did the 308 at long range. Pretty interesting to see and not what I expected when I first did this back in the 90's. The tracers lit up as well as they did in 308 ammo too.
    Frank

  20. #20
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    What about with a TT33 bore? My bores are both .312" and bullet diameter is .306".
    Is there blow-by with .006" difference?

    My M91/30 has a .315 bore and I tried shooting .308" bullets (did better with .311/312 bullets). I was shooting for accuracy so I didn't pay attention to the amount of blast.

  21. #21
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    The slowest powder might have a tendecy for more flash
    but ball powders like Bl C2 can produce a tremendous flash about 2 feet in diameter far greater than the equivalent extruded powder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    The formula should be easy.

    Just look for the slowest burning powder listed for 7.62X54R in your reloading manual (or, even better, the slowest powder you can find after checking several manuals) and keep inching the charge up TOWARDS, BUT NOT OVER the maximum recommended charge weight until you either get the results you are looking for, or you get pressure signs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ireload2 View Post
    The slowest powder might have a tendecy for more flash
    but ball powders like Bl C2 can produce a tremendous flash about 2 feet in diameter far greater than the equivalent extruded powder.
    I agree, BLC-2 or it's equivalent WC-846 surplus if you can find it. I'm still using a jug for 5.56 & 308.

    Some folks are even going as slow as WC-860, WC-867 and WC-872 surplus powders because it's cheap. Even though they were used in the 50 BMG, there is reloading data out there for large capacity and magnum cartridges. I'd imagine these powders would produce a big fireball.

    Pat's Reloading or Gibrass.com/Bartlett Reloading could help with reloading data.

  23. #23
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    I never saw this thread before but after looking at the post date I understand why. LOL

    If I had seen it I would have suggested the H-414. I've used a lot of W-760 and H-414 and they will produce quite a BOOM from a short barrel and I bet a fair amount of flash as well. IIRC There is data for it too.

  24. #24
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    If you seek visual drama, how about a blank load of black powder and aluminum dust? Better yet, get a flare gun.

    You seem to have forgotten that projectile-firing guns are not pyrotechnic toys.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  25. #25
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    Hilarious! But I thought of a blank load also, we used to play with a black powder hawken when we were drinking tequila for this very reason, the effect on a gathering was outstanding. The memories of youth!
    Here it it comrades, Obama is not going to help us keep our firerms rights, But Bush didnt help us keep our civil rights ! WAKE UP !

  26. #26
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    Referring to the original question: Just go out and buy some surplus Yellow Tip. You will get fireballs galore out of a forty four! problem solved.

  27. #27
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    Wish I could find a can of (as far as I can remember ...Albanian) surp. Not only was the sheet of flame out of M44 or M38 most visually impressive, it was extremely loud! It was sometimes enough to make people in the adjoining booths retreat ...
    Great to sneak a surprise by adding one to the magazine mixed in with silver tip to watch the expression on the shooter's face.
    Fun in the short guns but it would almost completely burn in a 91/30 with no visible flash. Kind of smokey and really dirty powder though.
    Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.
    Thomas Jefferson

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