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  1. #1
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    Default My Spanish Mauser bayonets - two peas in a pod!

    I was quite excited to come across this pair of Spanish Mauser bayonets - one for my Model 1916 carbine and the other for my Model 1893 rifle.







    The first is a Model 1893/1913 "long" bayonet for the Model 1916 carbine -





    This one has a P.R.8. stamp and very nice checkered grips -





    The second is a Model 1893 "short" bayonet for the Model 1893 long rifle -





    This one also has a P.R.8. stamp, but, the smooth grips -





    I would love to learn more about the provenance of these bayonets such as the arsenal where they were made. I have found precious little on the P.R.8. stamp. Whether it is a reference to a maker, an arsenal, or an acceptance proof is a mystery to me. Any thoughts?

    What I particularly love about the Spanish Mauser bayonets is the gorgeous leather bodied scabbards that were made for them. On the other hand, what I hate about them is how scarce the correct leather frogs are. Speaking of which, anyone have any spares or know of someone that does?

    Tim
    Last edited by tsellati; 10-17-2009 at 11:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Very nice examples. Like the MP8 stamp on refurbished post SCW rifles, the PR8 is a mystery, but the answer will turn up eventually.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsellati View Post
    I would love to learn more about the provenance of these bayonets such as the arsenal where they were made. I have found precious little on the P.R.8. stamp. Whether it is a reference to a maker, an arsenal, or an acceptance proof is a mystery to me. Any thoughts?

    What I particularly love about the Spanish Mauser bayonets is the gorgeous leather bodied scabbards that were made for them. On the other hand, what I hate about them is how scarce the correct leather frogs are. Speaking of which, anyone have any spares or know of someone that does?

    Tim

    Hi Tim,
    I've been told by some Spanish collectors that P.R.8= Parque Regional 8, an armaments repair facility located in the Balaeric Islands off the eastern coast of Spain.

    Best regards,
    Len
    ..of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants. -Alexander Hamilton , The Federalist Papers

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    Hi Tim,
    I've been told by some Spanish collectors that P.R.8= Parque Regional 8, an armaments repair facility located in the Balaeric Islands off the eastern coast of Spain.

    Best regards,
    Len
    Len,

    This is excellent information that I had never heard before. Thanks for passing it along. This explanation certainly makes more sense than what the seller of the one bayonet told me which is that P.R. = Puerto Rico .

    Tim

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsellati View Post
    Len,

    ... This explanation certainly makes more sense than what the seller of the one bayonet told me which is that P.R. = Puerto Rico .

    Tim
    Wow! Who knew the Spaniards were making bayonets in their super secret underground arsenal in Puerto Rico eighteen years after the Span Am War? Where are you in upstate NY?

    Len
    ..of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants. -Alexander Hamilton , The Federalist Papers

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    Where are you in upstate NY?

    Len
    I live just outside Albany and I shoot at the range owned by the Fish and Game Protective Association.

    How about yourself, are you nearby? If so, perhaps we can go shooting sometime. "Vernz" another board member lives just a little north of me.

    Tim

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsellati View Post
    I live just outside Albany and I shoot at the range owned by the Fish and Game Protective Association.

    How about yourself, are you nearby? If so, perhaps we can go shooting sometime. "Vernz" another board member lives just a little north of me.

    Tim
    Hi Tim,
    No I'm in sunny south Florida now. I grew up on Long Guyland and lived in Albany while going to the State U. (Class of '75. Rah, rah, go Great Danes!). Great town with some great bars.

    Len
    ..of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants. -Alexander Hamilton , The Federalist Papers

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    Hi Tim,
    No I'm in sunny south Florida now. I grew up on Long Guyland and lived in Albany while going to the State U. (Class of '75. Rah, rah, go Great Danes!). Great town with some great bars.

    Len
    Wow, what a coincidence as I grew up on the Guyland as well. For a while I lived in Hempstead, Sayville, then North Babylon before moving out of state for postdoctoral training. Now I am back, but upstate, since 2000.

    Small world .

    Tim

  9. #9
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    A very small world indeed! I grew up in West Babylon.
    ..of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants. -Alexander Hamilton , The Federalist Papers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    A very small world indeed! I grew up in West Babylon.
    Len,

    Believe-it-or-not West Bablyon is where my wife-to-be lived with her parents. I actually lived with my in-laws for awhile after my father-in-law passed away. We sold our small Co-op apartment in N. Babylon and moved in with my mother-in-law and grand-mother-in-law in W. Babylon.

    My wife and I go back to L.I. occasionally to visit family and it's like going back in time, especially when you hear the "classic" Long Guyland accent while grabbing something to eat in a local diner .

    Tim

  11. #11
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    Any idea if the "long" and "short" models are interchangeable on Spanish Mausers?
    Today at my local antique mall I found a "P.R.8 1915" long bayo hiding in a corner for $15. It has smooth wood grips not checkered like yours. No scabbard. Will this fit on any model spanish mauser?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 148Infantry View Post
    Any idea if the "long" and "short" models are interchangeable on Spanish Mausers?
    Today at my local antique mall I found a "P.R.8 1915" long bayo hiding in a corner for $15. It has smooth wood grips not checkered like yours. No scabbard. Will this fit on any model spanish mauser?
    Yes, both the "long" and "short" model bayonets are interchangeable on Spanish Mausers. The $15 price tag certainly is reasonable for a "long" Model 1913 bayonet, however, unless I am mistaken the handles should be checkered. If they are not then they may replacements from a "short" Model 1893 bayonet.

    Tim

  13. #13
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    Hey Tim,
    Thanks for the info. Now that I look at it closer, I can tell the wood WAS checkered, but it is so worn, that it has smoothed out. Overall its fairly beat up, so its not a great deal, but for the $ I couldn't say no.
    Do you know anything about the German made Simson and Co Suhl short bayonets? I think the same dealer had one of those, but it didn't have a price on it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 148Infantry View Post
    Hey Tim,
    Do you know anything about the German made Simson and Co Suhl short bayonets? I think the same dealer had one of those, but it didn't have a price on it.
    I do not know too much about them. I see them around a little less frequently than I do the "Artilleria Fc National Toledo" marked bayonets (see photo below) and perhaps as frequently as I do the P.R.8. stamped examples.

    Not sure if they truly are rarer and thus command a higher price or not. If the price is right and you don't have one I suspect you cannot go wrong.

    Tim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 148Infantry View Post
    ...
    Do you know anything about the German made Simson and Co Suhl short bayonets? I think the same dealer had one of those, but it didn't have a price on it.
    I don't know know if anyone else has found it to be true but ,in my experience, the Toledo bayonets won't mount to a German made Spanish M93. I went through about a half dozen Toledos that wouldn't go on my Ludwig & Loewe made rifle but every Simson fits it like a glove. From a historical point of view the German made weapons were shipped to the Spanish Colonial Armies ( "Ejercito en Ultramar ") which means a Simson bayonet might well be a SpanAm War bringback.

    Len
    ..of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants. -Alexander Hamilton , The Federalist Papers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    I don't know know if anyone else has found it to be true but ,in my experience, the Toledo bayonets won't mount to a German made Spanish M93. I went through about a half dozen Toledos that wouldn't go on my Ludwig & Loewe made rifle but every Simson fits it like a glove. From a historical point of view the German made weapons were shipped to the Spanish Colonial Armies ( "Ejercito en Ultramar ") which means a Simson bayonet might well be a SpanAm War bringback.

    Len
    Len,

    This is an astute observation and an important point made. The interchangibility (not a real word? ) to which I was referring is between my Spanish-made P.R.8. marked bayonets and my Oviedo arsenal-built Spanish Model 1893 and Model 1916 rifles.

    Tim

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsellati View Post
    Len,

    This is an astute observation and an important point made. The interchangibility (not a real word? ) to which I was referring is between my Spanish-made P.R.8. marked bayonets and my Oviedo arsenal-built Spanish Model 1893 and Model 1916 rifles.

    Tim
    For poor interchangeability I think the Austrians have the worst record hands down. I've three Austrian rifles and six bayonets, and only one fits with any degree of smoothness.
    Turning relics into near-relics since 2005.

  18. #18
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    I actually have two Spanish Mauser bayonets. One stamped 74025 and the other stamped P.R. 3977. Both have the leather scabbards. All in A-1 condition. Do either of you know where the 74025 was manufactured?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilE View Post
    I actually have two Spanish Mauser bayonets. One stamped 74025 and the other stamped P.R. 3977. Both have the leather scabbards. All in A-1 condition. Do either of you know where the 74025 was manufactured?
    Someone more knowledgable than I can correct me if I am wrong, but, I do not think the 74025 number relates to where or when the bayonet was manufactured. My understanding is these numbers may simply be the serial number of the rifle to which the bayonet was mated.

    Sometimes one can find a date of manufacture stamped above the Maker/arsenal stamp shown on the obverse of the ricasso pictured in my post above.

    Tim
    "Vertroue in God en die Mauser" --"Faith in God and the Mauser."

    - Anglo-Boer War of 1899-1902

  20. #20
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    I cannot find any other markings on this bayonet. Serial number makes sense. Both the base of the blade and the handle are stamped. Thanks for the reply.

    NE

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