Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: My Research Pertaining to the Geha/Remo/Hard Hit Heart Shotguns...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default My Research Pertaining to the Geha/Remo/Hard Hit Heart Shotguns...

    Hello all! I had been, for multiple years, on another forum, researching and posting the results of said research on the Geha, Remo, and Hard Hit Heart converted Mauser '98 shotguns. All I request is that you read this research before deeming the guns to be junk. Perhaps it will change a few minds, anyway. I'll post it like a timeline.

    First draft of Geha/Remo/Hard Hit Heart essay posted 10/29/06 (sorry I didn't do a bibliography...if you'd like to know my sources, I'll gladly state them)...

    http://ltgoodlife.com/features/JohnG/1/GEHA.htm

    2/23/07

    I now have some limited additional information as to the GEHA manufacturers, as well as pictures!

    First, the info. It seems the GEHA was not discontinued as early as I'd believed. An additional manufacturer, Rheinmetall, has also turned up in a Stoeger sales brochure. Rheinmetall manufactured the GEHA late in its production run. The sales brochure is from 1937, and I've found information indicating that production ceased in 1938 (the Stoeger sales brochure does NOT feature the GEHA as being produced that year). I will rexeamine each of the companies that built GEHA's, too, and try and see if I can find any information indicating if they ceased manufacture/conversion later than I'd figured.

    Another interesting thing I've observed on all GEHA's (although this does NOT apply to Remo shotguns...I've also been unable to examine the Hard Hit Heart shotguns as to this) is that they feature Spandau subcontracted Gewehr 98 receivers. All of them. Either Siemens & Halske or Pieper of Liege. I have no idea why this is, although if I had to merely guess, these receivers might have been cheaper to buy based on the fact they were subcontracted.

    Now, for the pictures (thanks for letting me borrow the gun, Rob!)...



    Above is the GEHA 12 Gauge shotgun. Note the military Gewehr 98 stock and intact rear sling swivel stud. Also the enlarged triggerguard made to accomodate the new trigger.



    Here, we see the GEHA's barreled action. Note the professionally bent bolt and the top of the safety being filed flat (what I mean when I say "filed safety").



    The GEHA's bolthead is of unique, springloaded design. Here it is resting in the middle of the barreled action.



    Here's a side view of the detached bolthead.



    The bolt, sans bolthead, front view. Note the unique modifications made to the existing Gewehr 98 bolt.



    Here's the trigger. Note that the GEHA does NOT utilize a military, two-stage trigger. Instead, it features a single-stage shotgun trigger.



    This is the shell deflector/receiver strengthener. As you can see, it's held on by two screws. Also note the manufacturer-applied mark "Germany."



    The Geha's magazine assembly.



    Here's the receiver subcontractor marking on the bottom of the receiver. This one's Pieper of Liege. Note the matching numbers.



    The sighting plane. This notch cut in the receiver allows the front bead to be seen.



    The stock medallion. This is what makes the GEHA a GEHA.



    The serial number on the forend. Note that it matches all other GEHA parts. Although just a pet theory right now, I'm wondering if these were the original Gewehr 98 serial numbers and the companies doing the converting just added onto them.

    10/29/07

    Here's my Hard Hit Heart, a variant of the Geha I managed to get my hands on this summer.













    Unlike the Geha, the Hard Hit Heart featured a finished stock and had the metal refinished (The Geha's receiver was refinished, but other parts were as they were on the Gewehr 98). However, mine is an extreme oddity in that it's choked improved modified. I've examined the barrel to the best of my abilities and have concluded it's original. The full and cylinder chokes must also be joined by the imp. mod. I've found out a little about the "Triple H," but not that much. It seems to have been imported by the Crescent Firearms Company, for one. For another, the proofs present are much later than the Geha's typical early Weimar proofs. Lastly, the gun is manufactured on one of the Spandau subcontract receivers (Pieper of Liege in this case) like a Geha. I'd place remanufacture around 1934-1936. Incidentally, I also purchased a 12 Gauge Remo shotgun and that earlier gun should provide some insight into just how the Geha and Hard Hit Heart were developed. I also believe I've found a manufacturer for the HHH in Geco (mark on the buttplate). Was Geco was the only manufacturer of the HHH? I don't know. The HHH is by far the toughest of the trio of Mauser Two-Shot Shotguns to find anything about. What little there is is grouped with the Geha.

    11/02/07

    Okay, my Remo arrived at the gunshop and I went and brought it home. As with every other Remo, taking the stock off reveals no subcontractor mark. The gun is fully choked and probably chambered for 2 9/16" shells despite being a 12 Gauge (the Germans standardized shotshell length a while after we did...I find it easier just to shoot 2 1/2" shells rather than go through the hassle of having my chamber length checked out). This is where a LOT of the "Geha=dangerous" myth comes from. I've seen Auto-5's effectively destroyed by shooting 2 3/4" shells in a 2 9/16" gun, and they're the strongest semiauto I've ever seen not counting some of the recent Italian guns. Anyway, back to the Remo.

    I was absolutely amazed by the workmanship put into this gun. Everything was hand-done. The checkering, the stock carving, the sighting plane, the bolt that was so caringly and artfully bent; just everything. It then occured to me that Remo-Gewehrfabrik's original intention had nothing to do with saving the German arms industry (though in effect, their design allowed it). Time and again, German gun designers would build what could be best called contraptions and they still caught on. One of the most famous of these contraptions is of course the drilling (and the slightly less famous vierling...why stop at three barrels?). On the Gewehr 88 forum, a company marketing a workable Gewehr 88/break-action shotgun combination can also be seen in all its Rube Goldbergesque splendor. They built this gun because THEY COULD.

    With so many Gewehr 98 actions available after the Great War, someone at Remo (who did make guild sporting rifles as well as better-known components for Zeiss Optics) got the idea of making another gun like that '88 combo...another whacky idea that was incredibly efficient but also really seemed to lack a target market: a luxury quality bolt-action shotgun. The earliest Remos (not mine) were engraved out the wazoo and cost as much any high-end guild sporter. But even Remo realized that was probably just a tad over the top, and they started making middle of the line shotguns...which is what I have. One of their slightly later, middle of the road guns. It has some interesting features not seen on the Geha.

    The first, and this is also the most interesting, is an emergency locking lug placed directly below the bolt release. Several other German break-action guns at the time featured similar "emergency locks" good enough to hold a ruined gun together for maybe one shot. It also has more than one purpose...it contains the overly complex ejector assembly, too. That in turn is tightly sprung against the bolt and makes follow-up shots quicker. The Remo's bolthead is held in place with a flat-head screw as well as a spring. These two features make the quick follow-up shots that are impossible with a Geha to be as easy as one can work the bolt with the Remo.

    Another "improvement" over the Geha that also probably took too much time to make was the magazine follower. Unlike the flat follower found in a Geha, it's concave to conform to a shotgun shell, resulting in (I guess) quicker lock-up. In theory. In practice, the difference is probably very little. Another feature of the magazine that seems positively useless is a small, brass nut holding the rear half of the magazine spring in place. Yes, the spring goes down pretty cleanly, but a good number of Remos are actually missing this doohickey and still work fine. Oh, yes, and it also makes the gun impossible to remove from the stock without undoing the nut. But since's it's brass, I'm sure a lot of people accidentally forgot and when they took off their stocks, yanked 'em off, and stripped the nut.

    I've basically come to the conclusion that the Geha and Hard Hit Heart people deserve a lot more credit than is given for their marketing strategy. Sell these Remos without all the bells and whistles to the Americans; they'll buy it, and besides, it works. Though Remo profitted off licensing their gun design to the various Geha firms and whoever made the Hard Hit Heart (both of which sold far more than Remo), they aimed their product at the wrong market and paid for it in sales. That said, it's a really nice gun. Just kinda odd.



    That's what I have so far. I'm trying to obtain a late 1920's Gebrueder Rempt catalogue, or at least a reprint thereof, to gain more information about the Remo.
    Last edited by Dalko110; 05-23-2008 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    N. Kentucky
    Posts
    360

    Default

    Dalko,
    Thanks for posting on a relatively overlooked chapter in German firearms history.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Art,

    No problem!

    I'd actually like to publish this information eventually, but feel that I don't really have QUITE enough information pertaining to manufacturers, the more obscure variants, the Hard Hit Heart, and also what "Geha" means (I'd believed it was an acronym until recently...hence "GEHA" in earlier posts...but recent information and looking at some of the earliest Gehas would indicate it might not be; it may merely have been a trade name agreed upon for unknown reasons by the various firms making it). Another bit of info that I've uncovered is that there are two medallion variants on the Geha...a metal medallion and a wooden one. I'm not sure which came first (I've only examined ONE Geha in person with the wooden medallions and overlooked the proofs), though the Hard Hit Heart (which WAS known to be made during the mid-1930's) also used wooden medallions. Perhaps the metal version came earlier? However, the lowest serial number on a Geha I've ever seen (643) had a wood medallion. But then again, Geha serial numbers seem to be merely Gewehr 98 serial numbers with some extra numbers stamped on. I'd literally have to see multiple catalogues and/or receipts of purchase to see which material came first. However, I DO know the wooden one is less common.
    Last edited by Dalko110; 11-24-2007 at 01:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Hey, thanks for the sticky! I'll soon be getting a Remo catalogue, so this thing won't just stay here and have no activity.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalko110 View Post
    Hey, thanks for the sticky! I'll soon be getting a Remo catalogue, so this thing won't just stay here and have no activity.
    Greetings, Not sure if this will be of any value in your research or not, but here it is: I have a GHEA action minus the safety, firing pin, bolt head. All parts match. Appears to be in good condition. All parts that are marked have 6786 on them. It is marked Germany on right side of the receiver ring. Has the same shot gun type trigger you describe. On the bottom of the receiver ring is a marking - an H tilted enclosed by a partial ring. Also a U. If this is any help in your research - great, if not no harm done. If you have any questions about the action please feel free to ask.
    Coinshooter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    "On the bottom of the receiver ring is a marking - an H tilted enclosed by a partial ring. Also a U."

    That's the less common of the two receiver variants...it's actually an "SH," and stands for "Siemens & Halske" (one of the two subcontractors for Spandau Gewehr 98 receivers that show up on Geha's).

    "I have a GHEA action minus the safety, firing pin, bolt head."

    A Gewehr 98 safety and firing pin should work in their place. The bolthead is the tough part to get, though IIRC, Springfield Sporters has some.

    You have helped with my research and I appreciate this a great deal...your serial number has been recorded as a matter of record simply so I can differentiate your gun (in this case, action minus barrel) from the others I've kept details on. If you wish, I will not add the last digit of the serial number; I have some recorded with, some without.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalko110 View Post
    "On the bottom of the receiver ring is a marking - an H tilted enclosed by a partial ring. Also a U."

    That's the less common of the two receiver variants...it's actually an "SH," and stands for "Siemens & Halske" (one of the two subcontractors for Spandau Gewehr 98 receivers that show up on Geha's).

    "I have a GHEA action minus the safety, firing pin, bolt head."

    A Gewehr 98 safety and firing pin should work in their place. The bolthead is the tough part to get, though IIRC, Springfield Sporters has some.

    You have helped with my research and I appreciate this a great deal...your serial number has been recorded as a matter of record simply so I can differentiate your gun (in this case, action minus barrel) from the others I've kept details on. If you wish, I will not add the last digit of the serial number; I have some recorded with, some without.
    Either way on the serial number - your call. Glad to be of help with your research. Thank you for the information on the markings and the sources for the missing pieces.
    Coinshooter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default Big, Important Update

    I finally secured a 1932 Remo catalogue reprint and I finally have some solid material as opposed to piecing together a hypothetical timeline based on anecdotal evidence, proofmarks, and sometimes dead reckoning. I'm not sure when Remo produced it (prior to 1932), but their shotgun action was NOT originally Mauser 98-based. Instead, it was a totally original design that relied on an underlug and the bolt handle itself to lock up. I don't know why they switched, but I've stumbled across just one of these early Remos (marketed in the US as the "Remo-Popular," which I will henceforth refer to it as). Without removing the wood/until I physically get the gun, there's no telling when it was made. But I do think I know WHY more of this design weren't produced.

    Imagine living in Germany circa 1930 (or, considering post-WWI Germany, any time between 1919 and when the Nazis took over). Your money is worth as much as toilet paper and you might as well use bundles of it to give to your kids to build castles with in lieu of wooden building blocks. The little gold or silver money you do have is saved for important things, like food. Think then how much money you could save by finding a safe way of converting wartime Mauser '98 actions that already exist into shotguns as opposed to forging a new receiver and building a new action. It is now my belief that THIS spawned the familiar, 98-based Remo.

    Interestingly, the Remo catalogue features drawings of the original Remo-Popular style shotgun, NOT the Gewehr 98-based model that we're familiar with. The drawings could be old (and that's my theory; you'll why see below), but we can't ignore the possibility they were producing this action all the way up through 1932.

    However, the advertisement in the Remo catalogue states a production figure of "100,000 Remo Repeating Shotguns" being sold. I've seen enough Remos to convince me that this is entirely possible if they started making them in 1919, but have only seen ONE non-98-based gun. In this catalogue, the garden-variety Remo is also finally given a name: The Remo Repeating Shotgun Number 126 (from here on out, the basic Remo is the Remo 126). But just when you thought I was getting interesting (or more likely boring), there was also somewhat of a revelation in this catalogue: starting in 1932, Remo made Gehas (the huge lettering "NEU! NEU!" kinda gave it away as being first year production...).

    Why so odd you ask, since both guns are so intrinsically similar? Because before and after 1932, it seemed every arms maker in Germany had churned out Gehas. Geco, Rheinmetall, Simson, and even F.W. Heym were documented as Geha makers prior to 1932. The obvious thing then would be to assume that Remo (who technically patented the action) finally said enough was enough and bought up the Geha trade name. But in a 1939 Stoeger brochure, we again see Rheinmetall listed as a manufacturer of the Geha, and Geco was documented as making Gehas well into the mid 1930's. Sort of. No one mentions the Geha by name until the Stoeger brochure (by which time Remo-Gewehrfabrik was experiencing serious financial problems). Could it be that these companies retaliated to Remo by making the Hard Hit Heart (a 100% clone of the Geha with a better-finished stock), which perhaps not coincidentally surfaces around 1932-1933? Just a theory and I've nothing to back it up, but it makes more sense than anything else I've tried to think of.

    Oh, and Remo also says we all got it wrong with regards to the Geha's magazine capacity. All the so-called "people in the know" from Frank de Haas to Pete Dickey to yours truly thought the Geha was a 1+1. But it wasn't. It was meant to hold just one shell in the magazine. The Remo catalogue expressly states to load just one shell. I think this does a good job of explaining so many boltheads popping off (Remember, the Remo 126's bolthead is screwed in.). The design drawing of the Geha in the catalog looks like an early Geha (had a forward sling swivel), but has a Remo-Popular style action in place of the familiar '98 action. Considering no Geha exists with this type of action, I'm forced to conclude that they took some artistic liberties. Remo ironically marketed the Geha as a low-budget alternative to the Remo 126. Taken directly from the catalogue [translated from German]: "The GEHA is the economy model of the classic REMO Repeating Shotgun." To sidetrack us for a moment, I find it interesting that Remo capitalized all four letters in the word "GEHA." Perhaps this contributed to the fallacy that it was an acronym? Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand, Remo also gave the Geha a Remo model designation; it was now the Remo Number 127 Single-Shot Shotgun.

    However, what's really fascinating are the other two models that I've never seen: the Number 128 Repeater and Number 129 Single-shot. The Number 128 Repeater is described both as "a Number 126 with a compass inletted into the stock" and "new for 1932." The compass, due to Remo's closeness to Zeiss Optics, is expressly stated as being a Zeiss. Due to the sheer novelty of this gun, I love it. However, due to the sheer impracticality, I doubt it was ever made. The Number 129 is a different story. I have documented two of them (I think), but have never physically seen a whole gun. This gun is advertised as a single shot (think a Geha), but with four custom barrel lengths: 30", 32", 36", and 38" (!!!). I've seen two 32" Geha barrels for sale and one person taking my survery did indeed have a Geha with a 32" barrel (no digital camera, alas). Considering Remo either made few or no Number 128 "compass guns," perhaps they didn't make too many long-barreled Gehas, either. Also consider that Remo production seems to oddly drop off past 1932. As I sit here and type, I'm also playing devil's advocate with myself: maybe I have the order wrong...maybe Remo made its '98 action shotguns from 1919-1932, then figured they had enough cash to release their new action. It tanked and so did they, thus allowing the trade name "Geha" to once again become available. It can't be ignored as a theory, though due to the Geha never being available with the Remo-Popular action, I do think it takes second fiddle. Whew.

    So, to briefly recap, here are my new theories on the types of guns and who made them. If possible, a time period is given after them...

    -Remo-Popular Repeating Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1919-???)
    -"Guild Remo" 126 Repeating Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1920-1925)
    -Remo 126 Repeating Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1925-1933???)
    -Geha Single-Shot Shotgun (Made by companies including but not limited to Remo-Gewehrfabrik [1932-???], Gustav Genschow/Geco [1926-1939 with possible interruption], Rheinmetall [1926-1939 with possible interruption], Waffenfabrik Simson [1920's], and F.W. Heym [???])
    -Hard Hit Heart Single-Shot Shotgun (Made by companies including but not limited to Gustav Genschow/Geco [1933-1939???] and Rheinmetall [1933-1939???])
    -"Remo Economy Model" 126 Repeating Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1930??-1932)
    -Remo Number 128 Repeating Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1932???)
    -Remo Number 129 Single-Shot Shotgun (Made by Remo-Gewehrfabrik, 1932-???)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default Picture of the "Remo-Popular" Style Repeating Shotgun...

    This is a catalogue picture of the Remo 128 "Compass Gun" (mislabelled as the Remo 126) and below it a likely-improvised drawing of the Geha (new to the Remo product line in 1932).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Remopage-2.JPG  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1

    Default 16 ga. Geha

    Hello, I have owned a 16 ga. Geha for over 25 years now, given to me from my grandfather when I was a kid. I've never vested much interest in finding out much manufactural history until recently and very much appreciate your research and availability. The only information that I have on my Geha is from my grandfather who received it from his brother who had taken it off of a German guard soldier. I would like to match numbers and markings if there is a database or an info bank that is available, & if I can obatain more details from my family history I will be sure to post any new information.

    Thank you again for the research that you have posted, as it has been most helpful and informative.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    675

    Default

    Just found this sticky, so pulled out the Remo I've had for about 15 years. On the reciever left is the following:

    Remo Cal 12

    (bird) (crown) 1702
    Nitro W MADE IN GERMANY
    On the reciever right is Germany
    At the bottom of the barrel is a mounted knight mark. There is a spring under the left reciever rail retained by a screw under the reciever ring. The other end is held by a flat tab spring. The long one rises into the bolt release, which doesn't let the bolt out of the reciever. The sear is stamped with a three leaf clover. All numbers match except the extractor ring, which is # 9514. The barrel is 25 1/4", measured inside the barrel to the closed bolt. The follower is retained in it's position by a stud in the rear of the mag. well. The stock is a rather nice Walnut with a slight schnabel tip, and fine checkered pistol grip. The left side of the stock has the number 781 1 inch down from the comb, 2 inched forward of the butt. The butt plate is marked at the toe GERMANY. A tear drop point wraps around the heel to the comb.
    I have not fired it. Hope this is at least interesting.
    Marrage doesn't just happen, you have to get out there and expose yourself to it, you know, like chicken pox.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Hey, sorry I was away. I'll address both responses. First response...

    "The only information that I have on my Geha is from my grandfather who received it from his brother who had taken it off of a German guard soldier."

    Are you sure? The only way I can imagine that being true is if he was Volkssturm (distinguished by a muted tunic, armband with rank, and black felt or black wool cap), since they had no standard weapons. Heck, some literally armed themselves with pitchforks. Capture papers would make your gun worth far more than it is now. Check for swastikas on the receiver...even a lot of (though definitely not all) Volkssturm weapons feature Waffenamt markings of some kind.

    Windage, what you have is a Remo 126 Repeating Shotgun. The barrel sounds a little short, but it also sounds otherwise original (the marking "Germany" being stamped on the buttplate is typically found on later guns). It'd almost certainly be safe to shoot with Polywad 2 1/2" 12 Gauge ammunition (www.polywad.com), though I'd have a gunsmith look at it if you don't know who shot it before you.

    Both guns have been noted and recorded on my survey list.

  13. #13

    Default Remo-Popular

    I have a Remo-Popular that Harry Lindquist brought home from the war. The wood is in bad shape and it is missing it's entire bolt mechanism. The lettering on the top is SRPa. The number 3119 with two hallmarks after it, and is also reprinted (3119) under the name Remo-Popular and Made In Germany. I'm looking for the bolt mechanism and/or any info you guys can give me. Thanks. -DW
    Last edited by Hodag-Head; 05-03-2008 at 06:46 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    I'd need photographs of the receiver area and barrel underneath the wood. This is where you will find the gun's proofmarks with regards to when it was made and should shed some light on whether or not it predated the standard Remo Nr. 126. "SRPa"...you sure that's an "S" and not a "D" (they're right next to each other on the QWERTY keyboard)? "DRPa" is a German "Patent Pending" mark.

    As for the bolt, I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but your Remo-Popular is a VERY, VERY tough gun to find. I would go so far as to call it rare (albeit not especially valuable). Finding a bolt is like looking for a needle in a haystack. As for info, read my post entitled "Big, Important Update" for the little info I have on the R-P.

    I'd also like pictures of the gun with the wood on, receiver area, any wood marks...but anything under the wood takes priority.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5

    Default Remo Popular

    I have a Remo Popular 12 ga.with a low 3 digit serial #. If you would like numbers or markings from it let me know. Any info about it would be interesting.
    cz

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default hard het heart 20 ga

    I recently purchased a hard het heart 20ga at a local estate sale. I was told it was a fairly tough gun to find. It is in almost perfect condition. Can anyone give me an idea on how much to insure it for? It has the heart and the hard hit heart on the stock.Thanks, Mike
    Last edited by sgtmfitz13; 07-28-2008 at 10:46 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    164

    Default

    My new Remo Popular 16 gauge

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4XcYybme98



    Scott,:D

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default REMO but missing the orignal stock

    I think I have a REMO...it came to Me via My Dad....and to Him from a vet of the Philippine Campaign...I got it and a LOOOOONG tale...

    the gun came back as a bring-back from the Philippines...it was real nice and complete...the feller that brought it back was a man of small statue...and he complained that it kicked baddly... some time inb the late 40's he shot it and the recoil caused Him to fall..and in doing so broke the stock at the wrist...He repaired it crudely with two pieces of brass, some screws..and wrapped the break with baling wire...Apparently the kick was bad enuff he never shot the thing again...and Mt Dad ended up with the gun...I don't know the whole trade...

    Later My Dad took a job at the now defunct Brookley AFB in Mobile Alabama...and He and Mom bought a place about 20 miles south of the base....He had a "hobby" farm...raised cows and chickens built a barn crib hen house...etc...The old Mauser shotgun became our varmint gun...Dad bought what he called "high-brass" shells for it...#4's and # 8's...and we shot lotsa of varmints with the old Remo...until the repaired stock simply gave up..
    Then...My Granfather was called upon to re-stock the old 2-shot...and he made a real mess of the inlettling......gun stayed in limbo for an aweful long time...then I asked a friend to see if he could fix it with glass-bedding...that didn't work out well either..again the bolt-gun is laid away...in 2001 I returned to Mississippi and brought the REMO back with me...a Donor Mauser stok and a real good friend that is a stock maker has got the REMO on the road to recovery..it will work now and feed as it should.....NOW the kicker....the reason the old girl kicked us all so baddly is the fact we were feeding her 2 3/4" shells...hi-power ones at that...and she is chambered 2 9/16"...I guess it has been "proofed"...

    Haven't loaded any short shells for her....and can't decide whether or nott I want to lengthen the chamber..I don't ever plan to shoot her with 2 3/4" shells again, tho...

    So much for what Folks are inclined to say about REMO's being weak...its a LOT of whooey..

    if any one is intrested I'll dig her out and copy down all the markings...

    the orignal stock had a VERY slim wrist...it was checkered on the grip and on the foreend...no engraving of the metal work, however...it had the "cheeks" at the side of the action...the schnaubel(sp?) fore-end...and had finger-groves in the fore-end as well...the orignal stock was FINE grade walnut...too badd its gone...


    [email protected]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
    2,734

    Default Question about similar bolt action shotgun

    Gentlemen:

    does this gun look like a Remo to you? Most stocks that I had seen, seemed to be military sporterized, but this one isn't:

    Thanks, Carcano

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dayton, NV
    Posts
    1

    Thumbs up Remo l 16ga

    Mr Dalko,
    I appreciate the history on the Remo ll shotgun. Unfortunately I have seen no reference to the Remo l. All the pictures posted and history relate to the Remo ll. Is there a source for information on this particular shotgun?

    Thanks,
    russS

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Gentlemen,

    after I posted some Remo relating info in this thread:

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=98895&

    I found this thread here. I guess, the info provided in the other thread will be interesting also here.

    1/ Gebrüder Rempt (Remo)

    Rempt owned two patents:

    A/ German patent #328446, which was filed September 19, 1919 in German Patent Office and was granted in 1920.

    Consequently, you will not find a Remo shot gun made before September 1919.

    B/ Rempt also had a second German patent # 443437 (the US version of it is enclosed), which was filed in German patent office on December 31, 1924 and which was for a different repeating shot gun, namely the “Populär” (Popular). Rempt’s Populär was offered in the 1927 Geco catalog for 55 Reichsmarks. The Gew. 98 conversion wasn’t offered in said catalog.

    2/ Geha

    Interestingly, I found a German patent # 337013, which was filed August 11, 1920 in German Patent Office and was granted in 1921. Owner of said patent was a Emil Hengelhaupt in Erfurt. It seems to me, that the bolthead in the patent is exactly like the bolthead on Gehas.

    Regards

    Martin

  22. #22

    Default

    Hello. This is Dalko110...back after a long hiatus and a move. Sauerfan, you've gotten some incredible information there and I can't thank you enough. One of the reasons I was never able to turn the research I'd done into a book (which is ultimately what I wanted to do) was that I'd only found second-hand and third-hand sources...never the real thing. Only anecdotal evidence. What you've found aids me so immensely and corrects many of the blunders I'd made not only in listening to information that turned out to be bogus, but also the assumptions I'd made that turned out to have bad conclusions. Do I have your permission to repost this material in my thread over at the Parallax Forums?

    Carcano, to first answer your question, I've never seen one like that. The bolt handle and stock are unfamiliar to me.

    russS, to answer your question, there isn't quite such a thing as a Remo I. A Remo II is a Remo 16 Gauge. A Remo (no I or II) is a 12 Gauge.

    "So much for what Folks are inclined to say about REMO's being weak...its a LOT of whooey.."

    So long as you have a bolthead in there, you should be fine.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    77

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalkowski110 View Post
    Do I have your permission to repost this material in my thread over at the Parallax Forums?
    Dalko,

    you're welcome. Yes, you have my permission.

    Best regards

    Martin

  24. #24

    Default

    Martin,

    Thank you! I'll transfer said info a little later tonight!

    John-William

  25. #25

    Default

    Good read, I wondered about my gun for a long time not knowing exactly what it is. Did a search and came to this thread. My grandfather won my HHH 16 ga in a poker game in the mid 60's and gave it to my uncle, who gave it to me. My grandfather was a right handed shooter, who lost his right eye, so he took a hacksaw to the gun stock so he could still shoot right handed with his left eye. Neat little piece of family and gun history. here is a pic

    http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f8...g?t=1267492836

    http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f8...g?t=1267492865

  26. #26

    Default Geha markings

    Hi all, I've had this Geha 12 ga. shotgun for almost 30 years (passed down from my Grandpa) and have never shot it. Grandpa said that I shouldn't shoot it because it wasn't really safe. I found out later that it was because the forward locking lugs were removed from the bolt. All of the numbers match on this gun and I was interested in finding out when/where it was manufactured so I started searching for information... Now I've spent the better part of two days trying to identify the proof marks with little or no sucess. I'm becoming confused because there seems to be a cornicopia of marks, some of which I don't know why they would be on the gun. I've included some pictures of them and hopefully someone here can help me. I can provide more pictures if necessary. Thanks!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010022.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	299.6 KB 
ID:	527912Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010028.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	296.8 KB 
ID:	527913Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010033.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	298.6 KB 
ID:	527914Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010021.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	296.2 KB 
ID:	527911

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1

    Arrow HHH S/N 5098 Wood Medallions, 16 Gauge, Shoots Fine

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalko110 View Post
    "On the bottom of the receiver ring is a marking - an H tilted enclosed by a partial ring. Also a U."

    That's the less common of the two receiver variants...it's actually an "SH," and stands for "Siemens & Halske" (one of the two subcontractors for Spandau Gewehr 98 receivers that show up on Geha's).

    "I have a GHEA action minus the safety, firing pin, bolt head."

    A Gewehr 98 safety and firing pin should work in their place. The bolthead is the tough part to get, though IIRC, Springfield Sporters has some.

    You have helped with my research and I appreciate this a great deal...your serial number has been recorded as a matter of record simply so I can differentiate your gun (in this case, action minus barrel) from the others I've kept details on. If you wish, I will not add the last digit of the serial number; I have some recorded with, some without.
    I recently (last couple years) acquired the above mentioned HHH and was wondering if you're still collecting information for your catalog after all these years. If so, I can take whatever pictures you'd like and post or email them. This forum just seems so old that I'm not sure if the project is still in production or if you'd be interested in information about my HHH. The couple of nice things I found related to this particular gun is the nice shape it is in considering the age, the 5098 serial numbers that all match and appear in so many places (every one match) and the relative rarity of it. I've have several gunsmiths that have thanked me just for taking it in and allowing them to see it. I was bothered by one statement that one said when he said it would make a nice "wall hanger". Another old timer determined it to be of 16 gauge which prompted a search of my old shotgun ammo. I did in fact find some old 16 gauge shells and set out to disprove the wall hanger statement. I shot four rounds through it. The gun fired, accurately with a nice pattern and the bolt worked flawlessly. The extra piece on front of the bolt head face remained in place (I made sure it was still attached in between shots, reducing the risk of catastrophic failure and even more catastrophic INJURY). But learning after the firing that I may not have been shooting the correct ammo (Remington #5's in 2-3/4), I don't know if I should fire it again if without finding out first if I should only be shooting 2-1/2" ammo. No damage was apparent to the gun and the only damage to me was a sore shoulder (boy that gun kicks, HARD!). I sure would like to take it back to the trap range to make that gentleman eat those wall hanger words but I don't want to risk damage to the gun or myself if I'm using incorrect ammo. Please let me know what you think and if you'd like more info and pictures. I'd be more than happy to provide either, or both if you're still interested. If you've moved on to new things, please pardon the interruption and accept my apologies. Thanks, mdhunter2.

  28. #28

    Default

    I also just acquired a HHH SN 7615 in 12ga full choked. Great shooting but my far the most painful gun I own, even more so than my ,375

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •