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Thread: Flintlocks??

  1. #1

    Default Flintlocks??

    I've recently become VERY interested in flintlocks, but I can't find a place to get one at a reasonable price.

    As it is I am mostly interested in the flintlock pistol and then possibly a riffle after that.

    So in short does anyone have a recommendation as to where one would find reasonably priced flintlocks?

    thanks in advance

    J99

  2. #2
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    Default

    I would try Gunbroker. If you manage the auction and not bid to earlier, you can usually find a deal.

    I recently switched over to flint after years of percussion BP and I am still learning but it is a lot of fun.

    I have an 1805 Harpers Ferry Pistol in 58 cal. She is a fun shooter but with the primitive pistol sights, it is not a good competition gun.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Reasonably priced is a loaded statement. What is reasonable for some may appear ludicrous to others. A good flintlock with a tuned lock is worth every penny spent. With flintlocks (and any other firearm, for that matter), you get what you pay for. Do plenty of research first. Many cheap flintlocks are poorly regulated, and frankly use lesser quality locks... and that can lead to much frustration.

    Check out Track of the Wolf for some ideas.

    P.S. Stay away from the Indian made replicas. Pedersoli makes a half way decent piece, and you can obtain parts if necessary.
    Last edited by Deputy Dan; 10-31-2009 at 08:10 PM.

  4. #4
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  5. #5

    Default

    thanks to both of you I'll be checking them out for sure and keep an eye on 'em

    and I completely get ya Dan reasonable is always relative to everyone, but for me I can't go dropping a couple grand on a firearm I'll make sure to look into anything that pops up that I can afford though, as I've ended up with what looked like a good deal and really turned out not so good on a couple occasions lol anyway thanks guys

    J99

  6. #6
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    Default

    Good luck on your quest!

    Take your time, read up on the subject and don't settle for anything less than what you are really looking for.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    Good luck on your quest!

    Take your time, read up on the subject and don't settle for anything less than what you are really looking for.
    thanks and I'll definitely take my time still young so I think I have plenty of it to look into things :D

    regards

    J99

  8. #8
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    Default rocks!

    http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/index.shtml

    I have had good luck with the Indian made flintlocks and wheellock so far. I like the solid feel and prices. These folks have a couple flintlock pistols teasing me right now. Call and talk to them so that you can make sure that what you want is in stock and ready to fire when you get it. Dealers sometimes have "scratch&dents" on special too if you like doing a little amateur gunsmithing.

    Depending on where you live, you might want to catch some of the local 18th century reenactors and see if anyone has one for sale. The perks to this plan are price and that they are probably very willing to show you tricks for how to fire it well.

    BTW - Middlesex has a video vote going on right now.

  9. #9

    Default

    I'm liking that site already :D thank you very much, and you've had good luck with them?

    and sadly I don't know of any 18th century reenactors in ND

    J99

  10. #10
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    Default

    Within the flintlock builders community, those who make a living producing custom flintlocks, you won't find many who specialize in pistols for some reason. One, who was very highly thought of as an outstanding craftsman, recently died leaving only a pair of brothers to specialize in pistols. At least that's all that I know about. Many custom builders will make a pistol, but it's only one along and along I think. I'm told that it takes more time and effort to make a pistol than it does a rifle or fowling piece, and this is probably the reason so few builders will jump on one. Perhaps Mr. Brooks or someone more knowledgable of the building problems will chime in!

    Deputy Dan has mentioned the lock of the flintlock without going into any detail: the lock is the heart and soul of these pieces, and without quality in the lock you will most probably become disheartened pretty quickly with flintlock shooting. Don't! You can overcome a problem lock with a little effort and patience! The delay in ignition that you hear mentioned from time to time....the "klack-poof-BOOM"....with flintlocks should not be part of the firing scenario. With a properly tuned flintlock, proper temper in the frizzen, proper contact angle of the flint to the frizzen etc etc, you will never be aware of any delay in ignition. High speed photography shows that the charge in the chamber will ignite and have the ball on its way down the barrel before the flint reaches the pan! You shouldn't hear any lag at all, and if you do it's time to knap the flint and readjust it in the cock for starters.

    Good luck, and don't compromise too much for your starting flintlock! It's out there and will show up probably when you least expect it!

  11. #11

    Default

    ^thanks man and I won't get disheartened too easily I refuse to have firearms that don't fire properly, so if I have said problem I'll ask around and work on it :D I have no problem with doing a little fiddling if needed

  12. #12

    Default

    Sorry, I have to agree with Deputy Dan (and MANY others) - "Stay away from the Indian made replicas." Here are the good points on the Indian guns:

    (1) Price is nice
    (2) Some have good luck with them as far as function, locks can be made to work reasonably well.
    (3) Some of the sellers stand behind the guns and will help with repairs when needed - Middlesex is supposed to be good about this.

    The bad points:

    (1) The barrels are questionable at best, no doubt about it and don't let anyone tell you any different. The barrel is the heart of the gun as far as safety and shootability.
    (2) If a lock needs repair, parts are not interchangeable and replacement parts must be hand-fitted if available and that can get expensive. Nor are the lock assemblies interchangeable so swapping a damaged one is not easy either - also can be very expensive unless you can do the work yourself.
    (3) The stocks have WAY to much wood on them leading to the guns being heavy and having a cartoon-like appearance. In other words, Elmer Fudd going after Buggs Bunny would be right at home with one. You can remove a lot of the wood if you are good with tools but if not, more added expense or learn to live with the appearance.

    Now, all of the above is my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth. Look at Track of the Wolf's available guns for sale (they even have some Indian guns :eek: ) and look at original guns that these are supposed to replicate. Do some study and make an informed decision, they are not all that is out there and the low price can be negated in repairs and appearance (not to mention safety) upgrades.

  13. #13
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    Default One Word:

    Pedersoli.
    Alden

  14. #14

    Default

    Forgot to add a link to a quality maker:

    http://www.fowlingguns.com/

    Expensive? Yes, but worth it in the long run. You will still be using one of these guns in 30 year when the Indian guns (and many factory made guns as well) are collecting dust sitting in a corner.

    Also, some more eye candy:

    http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/

    Page after page after page after page.... :D

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alden View Post
    Pedersoli.
    Alden
    Alden is right, Pedersoli is not bad.

  16. #16
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    Default

    I have to agree with Deputy Dan on "The heart of a flintlock rifle is the lock" period! What good is a top of the line barrel without a top of the line lock? When firing a flintlock one should hear one solid "Boom" not "Swish Boom".

    R,
    Beck

  17. #17
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    Default Indian option

    Quote Originally Posted by J99 View Post
    I'm liking that site already :D thank you very much, and you've had good luck with them?

    and sadly I don't know of any 18th century reenactors in ND

    J99
    We don't really have any 18th century reenactors in south-east Alaska, yet, but the Russian-American Company was here in Sitka and lost a couple battles to the Tlingit. There is even a blockhouse over in Sitka.

    TP calls Indian guns cartoon like which is an interesting way to put it. Another reenactor I know described them as assembled kit guns. I have certainly trimmed some wood on mine. My locks have been good and my blunderbuss barrel is extremely thick and durable like a blunderbuss should be. They are what I wanted and after considerable tweeking (which I enjoy) I am very proud of my Indian made guns too. I certainly would not discourage anyone from buying a custom American made weapon either. I have seen some so beautiful that I could not adequately describe them.

    I noticed that while folks have mentioned Track of the Wolf (who are usually out of what I try and order but have offered some guns assembled "in the white" which might be nice for you) I have not heard much about The Rifle Shoppe: http://www.therifleshoppe.com/ If nothing else, buy their wonderful catalog to drool over.

    The two pistols teasing me are:



    Have you checked out GunBroker.com too?

    Have folks taken a moment to vote in Middlesex Village's video contest? No matter what you think of Indian guns the videos are fun to watch even if I am about to OD on pirates.

  18. #18
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    Default

    The Rifle Shoppe can be an exercise in frustration. They produce parts after they receive sufficient orders... if you order parts they happen to have on hand, you are in luck. If you order parts they have to produce, I hope you have the patience of Job... you will not see that part for a very long time.

    The problem with TOTW with regard to items in stock is that when a high quality piece is offered for sale, it is almost immediately purchased! I have noticed that things have slowed considerably with the economy, but they are still selling arms like hotcakes. They had a Nock Volley Gun come up for sale that I contemplated purchasing. As I was figuring out how to fund it, someone else didn't hesitate.

    Indian made guns have had many issues... from the noted barrel issues, to poor quality breech plugs, inproperly drilled vents and extremely heavy mainsprings. Sometimes the geometry of the lock is off, and the lock will simply pulverize flints. They can be made to work, but the metallurgy of the barrel is suspect. There have been reports that can be read on the net of burst Indian mfg arms... many living history organizations will not allow Indian mfg arms due to safety questions about the quality of mfg.

  19. #19
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    Default Cautious Suggestion

    Dude;
    For a newbie I URGE u not to buy a) an "India" gun (unreliable too often) nor b) a custom gun (not a great value).

    You CAN'T go wrong with a semi-mass-produced Pedersoli. Yes, the lock is the heart, the best of which are also semi-mass produced here in the US and most back-room makers are really just assemblers (lock, stock and barrel). Nice(r) stuff but U do NOT need to keep their custom fitting in business at this point -- seriously.

    Alden

  20. #20
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alden View Post
    Dude;
    For a newbie I URGE u not to buy a) an "India" gun (unreliable too often) nor b) a custom gun (not a great value).

    You CAN'T go wrong with a semi-mass-produced Pedersoli. Yes, the lock is the heart, the best of which are also semi-mass produced here in the US and most back-room makers are really just assemblers (lock, stock and barrel). Nice(r) stuff but U do NOT need to keep their custom fitting in business at this point -- seriously.

    Alden
    I agree with Alden. While the Indian made pistols can be a bargain and enjoyable to work on and get right, they are best left for someone with experience.

    Pedersoli would be my choice for a first time buyer. They make a quality pistol, and parts are available if needed.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alden View Post
    Dude;
    For a newbie I URGE u not to buy a) an "India" gun (unreliable too often) nor b) a custom gun (not a great value).

    You CAN'T go wrong with a semi-mass-produced Pedersoli. Yes, the lock is the heart, the best of which are also semi-mass produced here in the US and most back-room makers are really just assemblers (lock, stock and barrel). Nice(r) stuff but U do NOT need to keep their custom fitting in business at this point -- seriously.

    Alden

    Okay, I will go along with madcratebuilder for the first time owner on purchasing a factory made gun, Pedersoli, T/C, Lyman, etc. but I can tell you that even the best of the factory made guns will occasionally be found to have lock problems that need to be fixed but at least they are manageable and spares are available.

    Alden, where does the "semi-mass-produced Pedersoli" come from? As received, they are factory made guns, there is no custom work to it. Any custom work (often needed on locks and triggers) has to be done and paid for by the buyer and that work will likely void any warranty.

    Custom guns are a great value if well done by a professional quality maker, they will appreciate in value or at least hold their value very nicely as opposed to the rapid drop in value seen on any and all factory produced guns. Sorry, but that is a documented fact. Few of your so-called "back room makers" are first rate custom gun makers by any standard, but if their work and parts are good, their guns will hold value better than factory guns.
    Last edited by TP; 11-01-2009 at 10:42 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default

    And to add to what TP said, sometimes the vent hole is improperly placed in Pedersoli's product. I had to have a vent welded closed, and a vent liner installed to correct an improperly placed vent on a Pedersoli 1795 Springfield musket... the vent was located near the bottom of the pan. Also, Pedersoli's frizzen springs have a propensity for cracking, but are easily replaced.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    ..................
    Also, Pedersoli's frizzen springs have a propensity for cracking, but are easily replaced.
    Agreed. They are often hard as glass with the toe of the frizzen improperly ground to allow good operation.

  24. #24
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    Default

    Guys;
    My point was that Pedersoli is not GM. Well, GM isn't GM anymore but you know what I mean... Its a relatively small concern, industrially speaking. Factory, yeah. Form, fit, finish, function and support are probably the best value for the money in my opinion. Pedersoli, not GM. But if we were talking cars, I think of Pedersoli as the Cadillac of them -- they ain't cheap nor inexpensive either. No, they are not Ferrari's -- but only someone NAMED Ferrari had one as his first car!

    The artisans here are great, but for the money, I'm unclear why someone just starting off would be guided down the path of one-off, maybe one-man, shop-assembled arms. And should the newbie know what custom-tailoring they might want? Furthermore, I'm being generous that you custom-gun proponents are implying commonly available hardware, barrels, and Siler locks for example being used vs. all hand-made parts otherwise this is an absurd dialogue altogether. I wonder if you might be a little too close to a particular level, aspect, and individuals in this hobby compared to our novice and his inquiry? It's like an average guy wanting a nice powder flask and being directed to the most nationally-reknowned, museum quality, horn worker... May not be the optimal, and certainly not the only, advice.

    I am trying to keep this in context but feel like I'm defending the obvious. The buyer will ultimately have to decide and a custom gun can AT LEAST be a big barrier to entry into this safe shooting sport. I am hoping to encourage and help him avoid that unnecessary obstacle...

    Hmmm, custom made .50, Pedersoli, or both?!

    http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?ite...istole&lang=en

    Alden

    PS: Maybe a T.V.M. would be a better description of a semi-mass-produced arm in this context, comparatively speaking? I dunno... Yes, I'd recommend them too for overall value but not for this acquisition and also further down the road...
    Last edited by Alden; 11-02-2009 at 07:42 AM.

  25. #25
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    Default

    Don't forget auctionarms........deals there too now and then. I scored a 1763 Charleville by Miroku (Japanese) at 1/3 the cost of a new Italian one. May take some time though.....I watched for a Charleville or Bess for 6 months and one finally came along.

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