Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    333

    Default Pre-War Mauser and German Guild Variants

    Print Page | Close Window

    Pre-War Mauser and German Guild Variants

    Printed from: Gunboards
    Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=191538
    Printed on: 09/10/2007

    Topic:



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Topic author: Finn Collector
    Subject: Pre-War Mauser and German Guild Variants
    Posted on: 10/30/2006 9:48:21 PM
    Message:


    The purpose of this topic is to gather as much data and showcase Pre-War Mauser and German Guild rifle and cartridge variants.

    Please feel free to post pictures, data or anthing else on the topic that you wish to share.

    Your time and interest is most appreciated

    Thanks,

    Kevin

    Replies:



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 10/30/2006 9:54:24 PM
    Message:

    The following is a Pre-War Germania Waffenfabrik Mauser in 8x57JS. From what I can gather, Germania Waffenfabrik was somehow connected to Anschutz and possibly Walther.

    The scope is a Zeiss Zielmar with unknown manufacturer mount.




    Download Attachment:
    21.46 KB

    This is the best pic I can take of the DRGM.. Its right next to the turn down on the right side.

    Download Attachment:
    15.41 KB



    Download Attachment:
    128.44 KB



    Download Attachment:
    126.99 KB



    Download Attachment:
    153.25 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 11/11/2006 9:38:58 PM
    Message:

    Here is a pictorial of Don S's Mauser Type "C".


    Download Attachment:
    46.61 KB

    Download Attachment:
    236.15 KB

    Download Attachment:
    138.66 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Don S
    Replied on: 11/11/2006 10:03:19 PM
    Message:

    This is the rare Army Type C which was Mauser's basic hunting rifle. Built in 1912 and chambered in 30-06, it has a factory mounted Lyman 48 peep sight. The Serial No is one digit off from the one shown in Jon Speed's book on pg.113. Jon stated it was one of the best C's he had seen.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 11/16/2006 12:11:05 AM
    Message:

    Here is another fine Mauser Nordheim Model B in 9x57 Mauser. This is from the personal collection of Don S.

    Download Attachment:
    6.4 KB



    Download Attachment:
    10.6 KB


    Download Attachment:
    13.49 KB




    Download Attachment:
    14.13 KB



    Download Attachment:
    13.32 KB



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 11/21/2006 10:48:19 PM
    Message:

    Mauser Model A from our friend Don S.

    A 1926 Mauser Type A in 7x57. Square bridge intermediate action with factory installed Zeiss scope and mounts numbered to gun. This rifle is pictured in Speed's book on pg.404


    Download Attachment:
    106.09 KB

    Download Attachment:
    259.15 KB



    Download Attachment:
    202.29 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Don S
    Replied on: 11/22/2006 08:04:33 AM
    Message:

    A 1926 Mauser Type A in 7x57. Square bridge intermediate action with factory installed Zeiss scope and mounts numbered to gun. This rifle is pictured in Speed's book on pg.404


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: vaughn99
    Replied on: 01/04/2007 9:00:57 PM
    Message:

    Don S is there a way i can send you my pics of a commerical 1931 mauser im guessing to be a model B to get a 100% this is what you have type of report i have over 66 pictures. click my name here in gunboards the email address there is vailid and i receive all emails.

    thanks
    vaughn


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: daniel phillips
    Replied on: 02/24/2007 9:06:25 PM
    Message:

    dont have the pictures close? but i owned an 8mm 26in barrel,ligh weight german mauser, it was a kornbush an son,side pannels,snabble had some river (oberspree-----)? name on the reciver ? too many years ago? 3 digit 186 sn on left side of barrel no numbers any where else, but what was really unusal a 98 action "no third locking lug"? not military convirsion? brought home ww 1, got from the same family they said know one had shot it? it was 99% all over. i shot potugese 8mm 100 yards to an inch. so thin so balenced i didnt even know it was a very thin 26 inches until it was put in a gun cabnet next to a husky,only thing i could find with that name was a ww1 malitary. traded it for a browning medelist and $250. 20 years ago. wish i had it back. im a little fogy about specifics but the wood was exceptional, small but plate of steel no crossbolts in stock, light engraving not a fancy over done gun not the usual german short german stock the builder wanted light and for a long armed man ,small three leafed engraved express sights, proff marks pre war 1, powder, bullit weight under wood 19? no military marks that i could see. sold lewisburge w.v. dan phillips


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: daniel phillips
    Replied on: 02/24/2007 9:17:52 PM
    Message:

    ps proof mark dobble headed spread winged bird holding a ball thing? kind of like the russian bird,or austrian empire bird not german bird? this was on above top of bolt handle , nu. 3 on trigger dan phillips


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: obsessed
    Replied on: 04/02/2007 9:54:09 PM
    Message:

    Got my first one! At least I think it is. I've heard it called a german cigarette rifle. Guild rifle is much classier! Then again, a supposed cig. rifle was traded to a american soldier for cigs. as the story goes. This one has Germany stamped on the right side of the buttstock. So I think it is an import. I'm still figuring out the caliber. So far I'm thinking 8x57J. Here's pics of the metal, stock maybe tomorrow.

    Download Attachment:
    95.35 KB

    Download Attachment:
    143.46 KB

    Download Attachment:
    84.68 KB

    Download Attachment:
    109.53 KB

    Download Attachment:
    102.78 KB

    Download Attachment:
    102.79 KB

    Download Attachment:
    93.78 KB

    Download Attachment:
    109.66 KB

    Download Attachment:
    100.43 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 04/02/2007 10:08:46 PM
    Message:

    Obsessed,

    Hey nice find with scope, mount and all. I cant wait to see the entire rifle with stock.

    Please make sure you check the diameter of the bore. Hey do you know if S&B manufactures 8x57J? I just bought some JR for cape gun but have not looked into J.

    Congrats on a great find.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: obsessed
    Replied on: 04/02/2007 10:16:10 PM
    Message:

    I'm glad you brought up that rimmed thing! The chamber seems to be reamed for rimmed ammo, a big shoulder. I noticed last night while pushing various rounds in. I compared it to a K98 chamber which is sharp and the 8mm turk ammo just fell in, the same round stays out about a half inch out of the chamber of the guild barrel until its pushed in with the bolt. The bore seems to measure the same as the k98. I can't tell with the plastic mic. I've got.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: obsessed
    Replied on: 04/03/2007 5:48:10 PM
    Message:

    Here's pics of the aforementioned rifle. Still don't have anything on caliber yet.

    Download Attachment:
    153.89 KB

    Download Attachment:
    217.49 KB

    Download Attachment:
    105.43 KB

    Download Attachment:
    184.77 KB

    Download Attachment:
    45.13 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 04/03/2007 6:29:25 PM
    Message:

    Hey, that is SHARP. Great optics as well. Congratulations.

    Hey most all of the rimmed cartridges were utilized in drillings, capes and other "break open" type arms. I have never personally seen a magazine fed Mauser or Guild utilize a rimmed cartridge. Saying that new things always pop up. I would have a gun smith check out the bore diameter. If I were a betting man, I would guess it would be the J or .318 due to the age but again, have a competent smith check it.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: obsessed
    Replied on: 04/03/2007 7:07:57 PM
    Message:

    Thanks again Finn C. I'm working out how to get side by side comparison photos on the two rifles mentioned above. The bore on both are mint, but a big difference in the chamber throat. Could just be the difference 30 or 40 years make in production?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: graf
    Replied on: 04/22/2007 2:40:19 PM
    Message:

    I wouldn’t call this a "cigarette" rifle or Guild rifle, as this is a commercial sporter based on a Kar98a receiver and dates to 1919-1922? (Danzig re-started 98a production in 1918 and curtailed its Gewehr98 production the same year… not a lot is known about Danzig, - before, during or after the Great War, even Dr. Storz book offers little insight…)

    I know of a dozen or so of these variations, most by Danzig, though Amberg have been seen as well- all the Danzig's so far are very near identical to yours.
    It certainly isn't post WWII assembled (so not a Cigarette rifle), -but most probably a made for export commercial rifle like you state made immediately after the war by either the Imperial German arsenal before it was expropriated (by the IMKK with the actual machinery going to Poland in the early 1920’s- not a lot on this subject in print) or by the Free City of Danzig before the equipment was hauled off? – Probably before under Germany considering the “Germany” found on all these…).

    By the way, this Gewehrfabrik Danzig also made a good number of .22 sporters very similar to your rifle- very cool rifle by the way and in nicer shape than most I have seen.





    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by obsessed

    Got my first one! At least I think it is. I've heard it called a german cigarette rifle. Guild rifle is much classier! Then again, a supposed cig. rifle was traded to a american soldier for cigs. as the story goes. This one has Germany stamped on the right side of the buttstock. So I think it is an import. I'm still figuring out the caliber. So far I'm thinking 8x57J. Here's pics of the metal, stock maybe tomorrow.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Dalko110
    Replied on: 06/02/2007 6:52:56 PM
    Message:

    On top is a Thieme & Schlegelmilch Gewehr 88 Sporter in 9x57. Marketed under the brandname Nimrod-Gewehrfabrik. Louis Schlegelmilch, who was the manufacturing hyalf of T&S, was the Kaiser's personal gunsmith and also ran Spandau Arsenal in the 1890's. I need optics for it, but fortunately know where to get them (though I don't have them). I need claw mounts, though the bases are there, but again, I know where to get them. In the middle is a Teschner-Collath Drilling. But moving on, on the bottom is a Waffenfrankonia Wuerzburg '98 action sporter in .30-06. From the little I know of this rifle, it was called an "Exportmodell," and basically made for the US market in the late 1930's. Note the lack of claw bases with a fixed iron sight. Condition is incredible...until I shot it, I doubt five rounds had been put through it. Snagged that one for $550. Shoots like a dream, loves S&B ammo.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 07/20/2007 08:39:29 AM
    Message:

    Here are some photos of Don S's Mauser Type B in 10.75x68 with 6x Zeiss scope built in 1930.



    Download Attachment:
    63.03 KB

    Download Attachment:
    52.14 KB

    Download Attachment:
    94.47 KB

    Download Attachment:
    128.9 KB




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 07/21/2007 11:14:14 PM
    Message:

    Friends,

    I am posting some pics here of Don S's 1904 Mauser actioned British Rigby.

    This Rigby was built in 1904 using a Mauser barreled action made special in 1902 for Rigby. Known as the short intermediate action with slanted magazine for the British .303 flanged round. Only 100 of these rifled were ever produced and used mainly in Africa. They carried their own special serial numbers. These rifle are quite rare in original unaltered condition.



    Download Attachment:
    59.87 KB

    Download Attachment:
    17.68 KB

    Download Attachment:
    16.21 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 07/27/2007 09:59:15 AM
    Message:

    Don S's Collection:

    This Mauser is the centerpiece of my collection. Original Type M in 8x57 built in 1935. Standard length action, double square bridge, solid left wall (no thumb cutout), factory cut for scope. This configuration is the Holy Grail for Mauser collectors. The Zeiss 4X Zielvier scope is factory installed with numbered Mauser mounts. Are there any other commercial Mauser collectors out there?


    Download Attachment:
    254.63 KB

    Download Attachment:
    27.71 KB

    Download Attachment:
    256.58 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 07/27/2007 10:09:49 AM
    Message:

    Don S's Collection:

    Original Mauser Type S built in 1941, in 7x57. Most 7x57's use intermediate length actions, but this one uses a standard length action. The scope is a rail mount 4X Hensoldt with claw mount bases. It also has the stamped GECO (Gustav Genschow) distributor mark on the top of the receiver ring.


    Download Attachment:
    169.36 KB

    Download Attachment:
    169.96 KB



    Download Attachment:
    187.61 KB




    Download Attachment:
    153.75 KB




    Download Attachment:
    298.31 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 07/27/2007 10:10:01 AM
    Message:

    Don S's Collection:

    Original Mauser Type S built in 1941, in 7x57. Most 7x57's use intermediate length actions, but this one uses a standard length action. The scope is a rail mount 4X Hensoldt with claw mount bases. It also has the stamped GECO (Gustav Genschow) distributor mark on the top of the receiver ring.


    Download Attachment:
    169.36 KB

    Download Attachment:
    169.96 KB



    Download Attachment:
    187.61 KB




    Download Attachment:
    153.75 KB




    Download Attachment:
    298.31 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Finn Collector
    Replied on: 08/08/2007 3:36:53 PM
    Message:

    Don S. Collection: Here is a very rare Mauser Type S built in 1946 during the French occupation of the Mauser factory in Oberndorf. It carries a special serial number issued by Walter Roll, the last director of the Mauser Sporting Arms Department. The caliber is the rare Mauser designed 6.5x57 round. It also has a Zeiss Zielacht 8X scope.

    Download Attachment:
    112.96 KB

    Download Attachment:
    146.9 KB



    Download Attachment:
    160.4 KB

    Download Attachment:
    70.55 KB

    Download Attachment:
    109.58 KB


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Reply author: Carcano
    Replied on: 08/09/2007 4:25:06 PM
    Message:

    An extremely elegant stock, and a very rare and treasurable piece. Just a bit small a rifle for such a mammoth scope...



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Gunboards : http://old.gunboards.com/

    © 2000-2006 Gunboards

    Close Window

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    N. Kentucky
    Posts
    360

    Default unknown Guild rifle

    Since all the pictures were lost in the old forum...Here is one by a maker I can find nothing on. Top of barrel is faintly marked Fr Neumeyer Freising. Proof marks show 9.3x57 with a re-work crown. Barrel slugs to a 9.5mm. Let me know if anyone can identify the maker.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1468.JPG   IMG_1469.JPG   IMG_1472.JPG   IMG_1466.JPG  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    115

    Default

    I know about Neumeyer. Or at least that they did make other '88 sporters. The site I bought my Remo off of (do we have a policy against mentioning where we buy these things? If not, I'll amend it to show the site) had an Fr. Neumeyer Kar88 Sporter in a Mannlicher type stock. Caliber was 6.5x57. Beautiful rifle!

    EDIT: It would seem they were only making ammo during WWII. The code was "u."
    Last edited by Dalko110; 12-03-2007 at 02:37 PM.

  4. Default

    Do any of these markings give a clue to the maker of my Model 98 9X57 sporter or is it simply a guild gun?




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    296

    Default

    Gewehrfabrik Erfurt, a royal Prussian rifle factory or armory. Just after the end of WW1, November 1918, they tried to convert to civilian production. In 1919 they were renamed "Reichswerke Erfurt" -RwE and finally closed down by the allied disarmament comisson in 1921. So this dates your rifle too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    349

    Default

    Just bought my first scoped rifle - couldn't resist the quality look - and am trying to find out more about it. My guess is that it's a German guild weapon, based on a Mauser action. The top of the barrel is marked: "VALENTIN KERN NURNBERG". Left side of the receiver ring is marked: St.m.G. (over) crown, crown over N, 112gr (over) 19963. Right side is marked with a small eagle (wood blocks anything under the eagle). Various metal parts are lightly engraved with decorative markings. Scope is marked: Zielvier/Nr. 2865/CARL ZEISS/JENA. Bore measures .28 cal. at the muzzle. Rifle and scope are in VG condition; optics are clear and sharp. Price was $839 out the door. Would appreciate any info about Valentin Kern, about when the rifle and scope were made, and how I did price wise. No photos available, but the auction site has detailed shots. See Echoes of Glory International Military Auction House - Auction. Then see their 26 March 2011 auction, Lot 128. Thanks.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •