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  1. #1
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    Default Dutch Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet

    - The Dutch Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet can be found with two types of locking rings: an unusual locking ring made of two pieces with two screws or a "normal" locking ring having only one tension screw. => QUESTION: Which type of locking ring was made first, the one with two screws or the one which has only one tension screw ???? I'm asking this question because some sources of information mention the locking ring with one tension screw was made first, while another sources of information mention the locking ring having the two screws was the first made. Thanks in advance for any help, Lido 11/11/09

  2. #2
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    I was informed by a Top Dutch collector that the single was first the twin second. The normal practice of simplifying seems to have been missed by the Dutch

  3. #3
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    Actually, I read it was because the two piece ring was easier to make in a document on the history of the Beaumont:

    "The bayonet of the Beaumont rifle is identical to the bayonet for the Dutch Snider rifle except for its dimensions. The Beaumont bayonet is a bit smaller.

    The department of war decided in 1875 that the so called "stormring" (assault ring) henceforth should made form 2 pieces of steel fitted together by 2 screws. This modification simplified the manufacturing. The assault ring tighten the bayonet on the rifle by turning it. The Colonial Army took over this simplification also in 1877.

    The old model socket bayonet had an iron assault ring with 1 screw and had a steel blade that was welded on an iron shaft. This forge could only be done by a very skilled smith. The new model socket bayonet with 2 screws was made entirely from steel. In 1876 bayonet smiths were rare. All socket bayonets for the percussion rifles that were later transformed to Snider breech loaders were entirely made from forged iron."

    The document was on the web, but has now disappeared. I do have a copy. I have lost the info on the author.

  4. #4
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    That makes sense I was forgetting just how old these things are

  5. #5
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    - @ fausto4 & 0ld-smithy: Thanks for your answers. I have one more question: Where the Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet was manufactured ??? In Holland or Belgium ??? Normally the Beaumont M1871 bayonet is well marked on the shank and socket. Lido 11/13/09

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fausto4 View Post
    Actually, I read it was because the two piece ring was easier to make
    Hi

    The operation of welding steel on iron is difficult - not making a single piece socket ring.

    The single piece socket ring has been made during many years and was no challenge in the 1880' thies. The two piece socket ring is more time consuming to produce. The benefit is that ring is easy to remove for inspection and cleaning.

    /Amsfelder
    Last edited by amsfelder; 11-15-2009 at 01:09 AM.

  7. #7
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    - I recently got a Dutch Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet with no scabbard. The socket is marked with "E 298". The shank has a small oval mark with a "crown" over the letter "S" inside; this mark seems to be like other Belgian markings. There is another very small mark stamped on the shank showing a crown and something else. The letter "P" is stamped on the rear side of the socket, under the round bridge. The locking ring is made of 2 pieces secured together by 2 screws; the longer segment of the locking ring is also stamped with a mark and with a crown over a letter. Anyone who knows the meaning of these markings ????? The 2 pieces of the locking ring are made of steel. This type of locking ring is very functional and it can be taken apart in less than 15 seconds. The 2 screws from the locking ring don't have the same length; the screw from above the round bridge is 0.602-in / 15.3mm long and the other screw is a little shorter with a length of only 0.515-in / 13.1mm. Since these 2 screws from the two-piece locking ring have a different length, it isn't possible to put them back in a wrong way. => The cruciform blade of my Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet is not shortened, it is over 20-inch long. This cruciform blade resembles very much the blade of the Russian M1891 socket bayonet but it is longer and the blade tip is sharp, not like a screwdriver. Lido 11/22/09

  8. #8
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    - My Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet weighs 12.25 oz (0.347 Kg) and it has these dimensions: overall length = 577mm / 22.71-inch, socket length = 68.1mm / 2.68-inch and the inside diameter of the front socket = 17.7mm / 0.696-inch. The overall length of the 11mm Dutch M1871 Beaumont rifle (or the 11mm Dutch Beaumont-Vitali M1871/88 rifle) with the M1871 socket bayonet attached is approx. 1830mm / 1.83 m / 72.04-inch. Lido 11/25/09

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by amsfelder View Post
    Hi
    The single piece socket ring has been made during many years and was no challenge in the 1880' thies. The two piece socket ring is more time consuming to produce. The benefit is that ring is easy to remove for inspection and cleaning.

    /Amsfelder
    What is easier, making a trip and bending it into a circle around the socket shank to the correct profile or just making two standard (almost) semi-circlar parts and screwing them together over the shank?
    My own virtual museum, growing one entry at a time. Keep checking back!
    http://militarygunsofeurope.eu/

  10. #10
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    - I mentioned above about a small oval mark (dimensions: 2.5 X 4mm / 0.097 X 0.157 inch) having inside a "royal crown" over the letter "S", mark stamped on the shank of my Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet. I asked if anyone knows where my Beaumont M1871 socket bayonet was made and I also asked about the meaning of that small oval mark but I got no answers from anyone. ---> Well, I was able to find the answer by myself. That small oval mark having inside a "royal crown" over the letter "S" is actually a proof mark of the "P. Stevens" arms company of Maastricht (Holland). "P. Stevens" means actually Petrus Stevens (1800-1863). To verify all this, please enter here at http://www.militaryrifles.com/Holland/BmontVit.htm and go down and click on "Close-up Pics of Action and Sight". The photo at the very bottom shows an item which has 3 markings, the one from left is the small oval mark having inside a "royal crown" over the letter "S". That particular item was manufactured and is marked with "P. Stevens" over "Maastricht". => Note: It amazes me that no Dutch bayonet collector was able to figure out the origin of that small oval mark. Lido 11/30/09

  11. #11
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    Default

    Sorry about not replying awhile back. I think we got caught up in the "storm ring" design. Thanks for the info on the marks.

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