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Thread: M1A-ID? "help!"

  1. #1
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    Default M1A-ID? "help!"

    Havent been on here in a while.
    Familiar with all kinds of firearms, but expert on NONE! Owned M1s currently & before. Have a chance to pick up my 1st M1A, but am trying to i.d. it first. Have a small window of opportunity to do so.
    The receiver states "US RIFLE M1A- SPRINGFIELD-ARMORY 'with a t in a circle'- ser #118454.
    The barrel has a "P" then following "SAK-7790190-9-68-8037229". Also has a capital letter "M" up near the barrel shankone inch ahead of the receiver & under the handgaurd grooves.
    When I took the bolt out, the underside of the receiver has a protruding number of "1346" then a recessed "1-04".
    Im beleiving the receiver to be a casting, but I have had a couple of "experts" say it is an original m14 receiver, which I dont believe. Looks too good & new with no ware marks to speak of. Has a trw bolt "7790186 TRW ZJ".
    Op Rod states "7267064 SAK P" & trig group "7267030-HR-N".
    Aside from having a surplus looking proof marked stock with the selector cutout dug in the stock & fiberglass handgaurd, I would put it at an NRA 90-95%.
    What is it?!?!?
    Pre-Thanks for all the help!
    Cal50

  2. #2
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    Cast receiver, some GI parts. Typical SA Inc. M1A... is there something in particular you wanted to know?

  3. #3
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    Looks like you have a fairly early Springfield M-1A. I don't know what number they are up to now, but mine was bought new in 1979 or 80 and is 22,xxx SN range. Springfield bought tons of surplus M-14 parts and had their own receivers cast. Investment cast steel which is very good. (Ruger uses nothing else) They assembled the military parts onto their receivers until they ran out of a specific part, at which time they tooled up and made it. I think current rifles are 100% new parts, the surplus ones gone. From the markings you gave, that rifle has surplus parts so is early in the production. Some shooters prefer the military parts, I have no opinion one way or the other. Have heard very few problems with any of the M-1A rifles. All surplus stocks will have the cut-out for the selector and the fiberglass handguard is standard. I considered putting a wood handguard on mine but was advised not too, the fiberglass supposedly lets the barrel run cooler.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALIBER50 View Post
    Havent been on here in a while.
    Familiar with all kinds of firearms, but expert on NONE! Owned M1s currently & before. Have a chance to pick up my 1st M1A, but am trying to i.d. it first. Have a small window of opportunity to do so.
    The receiver states "US RIFLE M1A- SPRINGFIELD-ARMORY 'with a t in a circle'- ser #118454.
    The barrel has a "P" then following "SAK-7790190-9-68-8037229". Also has a capital letter "M" up near the barrel shankone inch ahead of the receiver & under the handgaurd grooves.
    When I took the bolt out, the underside of the receiver has a protruding number of "1346" then a recessed "1-04".
    Im beleiving the receiver to be a casting, but I have had a couple of "experts" say it is an original m14 receiver, which I dont believe. Looks too good & new with no ware marks to speak of. Has a trw bolt "7790186 TRW ZJ".
    Op Rod states "7267064 SAK P" & trig group "7267030-HR-N".
    Aside from having a surplus looking proof marked stock with the selector cutout dug in the stock & fiberglass handgaurd, I would put it at an NRA 90-95%.
    What is it?!?!?
    Pre-Thanks for all the help!
    Cal50
    It's a good one.

    SAK barrel with the "M" in between the HG and the flash hider should really be marked "NM" National Match. It's a standard contour, non-chromelined, USGI National Match barrel....I know because one of my rifles has one too.

    Remaining GI Parts, TRW, SAK, HRN, they're all good to go.

    I'd guess the SN would put the gun as late 90's production.

    Barrel markings should look like this...

    "Nothing says "Obey me" like a bloody head on a fence post." -Stewie Griffin

  5. #5

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    Wait...you said the M was under the HG's?

    Not National Match....still a good barrel though.
    "Nothing says "Obey me" like a bloody head on a fence post." -Stewie Griffin

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys. Sounds like what I was looking for.
    Im sure it wasnt an orig GI rec or anything, but the GI parts with the GI stock had me confused. I can take it for $900-1000 from the owner. Ill think it through for a couple of days as its not going anywhere.

  7. #7
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    standared springfield armory reciver gun with USGI parts my earlyest gun is 29,000 NM made in 1984 i would put yours in the 1979/80 gun is desirable also known as a green lable/box gun,,green box numbers go to around the 65,000/70,000 before going to the blue box,,my last one i got was a new in box gun store trade in 150,000 range had TRW barrel,forged commercial bolt and SA trigger and op rod made about 2003 bought for 1000.00 out the door,,you will not find USGI parts much after 2004

  8. #8
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    With a S/N of 118,454 it is a Post '94 ban receiver... so it can't be a green label.

    If you can get it for $900 and it looks as good as you say, it is a good deal.

  9. #9
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    sorry i read the numbers wrong.dang eyes.the numbers put it in the 2000 year made buy it ..it has USGI parts
    Last edited by mr44; 11-26-2009 at 07:15 AM. Reason: update

  10. #10
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    I agree 100%. A New M1A will have very few GI parts... SA Inc replica parts used in manufacture include (the receiver obviously) bolt, barrel, op rod, trigger group, flash hider... non GI parts may be perfectly servicable, but my preference is for an M14 clone to have as many original parts as permissable. Original M14 parts were manufactured under rigid specifications under scrutiny of Quality Control Inspectors from DOD, and one can be reasonable assured of long service. Replica parts manufactured by SA Inc for their M1A seem to work, but I don't believe that SA Inc's quality control is up to milspec standards... At least they have a warranty to repair any problems.

    Glad I built up a stash on new M14 parts before they started getting expensive!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    Glad I built up a stash on new M14 parts before they started getting expensive!
    Deputy, You were very wise to do so! Unfortunately all of the rest of us maybe weren't so wise, and now have to live with what we can get currently. I've had great service from my SA Inc rifles over the years, and have talked to many who have had the same experience with them as myself. Personally, I also prefer USGI parts above all others just as you do, just a little on the pricey side.

    Michael

  12. #12
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    When the Clinton Administration was sending the M14s to Captain Crunch, there were loads of new and near new rifles being destroyed. I grabbed a load of like new parts from SARCO and new in wrap parts from Tony Pucci when they really didn't have much demand for parts. I also bought a few cartouched WW2 M1 stocks that were extremely nice (SA GHS, EMcF and NFR). Damn shame, all those components came off perfectly servicable rifles.

    Grab a few extra extractors... they always fail when you don't have a spare

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    When the Clinton Administration was sending the M14s to Captain Crunch, there were loads of new and near new rifles being destroyed. I grabbed a load of like new parts from SARCO and new in wrap parts from Tony Pucci when they really didn't have much demand for parts. I also bought a few cartouched WW2 M1 stocks that were extremely nice (SA GHS, EMcF and NFR). Damn shame, all those components came off perfectly servicable rifles.

    Grab a few extra extractors... they always fail when you don't have a spare
    Deputy, The extractors are the weak link I guess on all M14/M1A type rifles, and I don't have any spares. Thanks for reminding me, as it would be bad to be shooting in a match(anywhere, really), and have one fail. I have a birch SA NFR stock that doesn't belong on one of my M1 rifles, and it doesn't match the rest of the walnut furniture that does belong. I'm torn between replacing it with a walnut stock, or just leaving it like it is, as it is a sweet shooter, and locks up very tight. Any thoughts on this?

    Michael

  14. #14
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    A Norman F. Ramsey stock should be walnut... perhaps it is a very light colored walnut. Birch was used as a replacement stock material, and I would expect to find a DAS on it, or unmarked except for proof p. Is the rifle a rebuild? It may be cheaper and easier to replace the upper and lower handguard with Birch units... a fine condition set of birch furniture looks quite nice on the M1. Since it locks up tight, I would think about keeping that stock.

    I would make sure the Lower handguard wasn't original before I started pulling things apart, especially if it is a WW2 rifle with a correct barrel receiver combination.

    Almost all of my WW2 M1s are original (via Scott Duff), and the solid lower band retaining pin is held in place by a single stake mark on wither side of the band... there are no other tool marks to indicate that it was fooled with. Also, the pinion stake mark on the rear sights has no evidence of disturbance of the original stake. A post war rifle's lower handguard is retained by a roll pin, which did away with having to stake the solid retaining pin.

    There are nice oiginal post war walnut M1 stocks floating around for not a huge amount of $$$. As far as mixed wood rifles, many of the Navy Mk II Secretary of the Navy Trophy rifle variations exhibit mixed types of wood.

  15. #15
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    Geeez....
    Hearing about all the milspec stuff, sounds like Id be dumb not to get it. Im borrowing it this afternoon to get a closer look at it & will post pics.

  16. #16
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    $900 is a VERY good price.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    A Norman F. Ramsey stock should be walnut... perhaps it is a very light colored walnut. Birch was used as a replacement stock material, and I would expect to find a DAS on it, or unmarked except for proof p. Is the rifle a rebuild? It may be cheaper and easier to replace the upper and lower handguard with Birch units... a fine condition set of birch furniture looks quite nice on the M1. Since it locks up tight, I would think about keeping that stock.

    I would make sure the Lower handguard wasn't original before I started pulling things apart, especially if it is a WW2 rifle with a correct barrel receiver combination.

    Almost all of my WW2 M1s are original (via Scott Duff), and the solid lower band retaining pin is held in place by a single stake mark on wither side of the band... there are no other tool marks to indicate that it was fooled with. Also, the pinion stake mark on the rear sights has no evidence of disturbance of the original stake. A post war rifle's lower handguard is retained by a roll pin, which did away with having to stake the solid retaining pin.

    There are nice oiginal post war walnut M1 stocks floating around for not a huge amount of $$$. As far as mixed wood rifles, many of the Navy Mk II Secretary of the Navy Trophy rifle variations exhibit mixed types of wood.
    Deputy, It's not the stock that came on the rifle, as Paralax Bill who sold it to me, said the stock was a sought after piece on its own. The rifle is a rebuild as most of these rifles have been through several of them. Sorry for the poor pics, it's an old cam-corder that I'm using for pics. It's for sure birch, NFR, circle P, you should be able to see the contrast between the walnut furniture, and the birch stock. Not sure if you can read the date, of mfg on the barrel, but it's 11-52, SA. I've had it apart once to clean/inspect/lube/etc... But can't remember if it has a roll pin, or the solid pin. I think the mixed furniture gives the rifle a bit of character. Maybe adding the birch furniture might be the way to go. Then I'd have a blond, and a brunette! Caliber50, I'd jump all over that rifle for $900, if you don't PM me, and I will!!! Got M14/M1A?

    Michael

  18. #18
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    Michael

    Your stock is American Black Walnut. Doesn't look in bad shape either.

    A birch stock with an SA NFR final inspection stamp would be a forgery. The rifle below is stocked in birch furniture. If you look at the grain pattern on the handguards, you can see that it is different from your rifle's stock.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deputy Dan View Post
    Michael

    Your stock is American Black Walnut. Doesn't look in bad shape either.

    A birch stock with an SA NFR final inspection stamp would be a forgery. The rifle below is stocked in birch furniture. If you look at the grain pattern on the handguards, you can see that it is different from your rifle's stock.
    Deputy, Thanks for putting me back on the right path. It's just that the wood is sooo much lighter in color on the stock than the other two pieces of furniture. In my pic it looks darker than it is in person. Character it is! SA NFR, what years would this be? Here is a pic of my two babies. Both SA, top one is a NM, bottom one standard military version, both walnut. A good friend of mine that knows these rifles pretty well swears the bottom one is birch, but SA says walnut. I love these rifles, it doesn't show does it?

    Michael

  20. #20
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    Norman F Ramsey was Commandant of Springfield Armory from Oct 44 through Nov 45. There was some overlap in stock markings due to the sudden illness of the previous commandant, George A Woody, who subsequently died. Some stocks were stamped SA GAW during the early Ramsey period, and the accepted reason is that new stamps had to be procured, and that took a few months.

    By your serial number, your rifle was produced in October '43 and would have originally have an SA GAW stock. NFR stocks start to be observed in Jan '45 and continue through end of WW2 production in early '46. Again, there is a the in changing over the correct stamps when the commandant changes.

    I agree in the assessment that the lower M1a in your photo has a birch stock... regardless of what SA Inc says, it is a birch stock.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALIBER50 View Post
    Thanks guys. Sounds like what I was looking for.
    Im sure it wasnt an orig GI rec or anything, but the GI parts with the GI stock had me confused. I can take it for $900-1000 from the owner. Ill think it through for a couple of days as its not going anywhere.
    Jump on it for that price, it's about six hundred under market value. Born on date is in the 1999-2000 era. Not many had a lot of usgi parts then. Sounds like a nice rifle.

  22. #22
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    Finally pics.
    I hate computers..........

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    .

  24. #24
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    Looks good... so, I take it that you purchased it?

    If you did, you did well!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALIBER50 View Post
    .
    Got M14/M1A??? Took my new SA M1A NM to the range today for break-in, various load testing to get some kind of idea of the food it likes the best. There was a family of brothers at the range today, three brothers, and a brother in law. Two brothers were Marines, one teaches a CCW course here, the other a weapons instructor at Lejune, and the third along for $hitz, and grins. They were all ogling my M1A, and making complementary remarks about it, so I could tell they were dying to shoot it. Well I was nice and let them each put four rounds of M118 down range @100yds on my shoot-n-c targets I had up. Needless to say they were all impressed with it's accuracy, and just kept saying, "and that's with iron sights". I told them, "you think that's good with irons, then you should try my M1903 @1,000yds". They all just dropped their jaws. Then I told them that I was just breaking in the M1A, and it should only get better! Caliber50, if you haven't bought that rifle yet let me know, as I'd buy it NOW!!!

    Michael

  26. #26
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    Default M1A Price

    Great price for a M1A with all those GI parts. Grab it ASAP. :D

  27. #27
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    Default M1A Price

    Great price for the M1A with all those GI parts. Grab it ASAP. :D

  28. #28
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    I told him unless he came down to 500, he can shove it.


    ok .bad joke. Im going to give him the greenbacks when he gets back in town this comming week. Yall helped talk me into it with your direction & insight.
    Thanks a lot!
    "for helping me get deeper in debt!" but worth it!

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