Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default Peiper/Bayard .22 self ejecting .22

    Shown are pictures of a .22 rifle that a Canadian sold me this weekend. He was stationed in Holland and bought it from another soldier. Pulling the bolt back, cocks and opens the action. The lever on the left side releases the bolt. Firing causes the bolt to cycle open and the case is blown into the chamber area. There is a pushout rod screwed into the bottom of the buttstock to dig a case out if required. While the barrel is marked .22 short, long and long rifle, I doubt that high speed long rifles would be good for it as it is of pre WWI vintage. The buttstock carvings may be in Flemish or Waloons and seem to say Canada's glory and Holland's ruin.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bayard1.jpg   bayard2.jpg   bayard3.jpg   bayard4.jpg   bayard6.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    argentina
    Posts
    2,214

    Default

    Interesting piece, I even like the carvings-I shoot high speeds on my prewar rifles, even the simple ones like the Ortgies.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Minn.
    Posts
    188

    Default

    I had one kind of like this without the carvings I shot shorts in it and it would eject the empty, a kind of singleshot semiauto. I sold it to a friend, I think mine was short only someone said it was a Bayard. a fun and different toy. winsted

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raul View Post
    Interesting piece, I even like the carvings-I shoot high speeds on my prewar rifles, even the simple ones like the Ortgies.
    While there might not be a problem with high speeds in a bolt gun, consider the early Colt Woodsman .22 pistols had broken mainspring housings due to design/material defects using high speed ammunition. Colt had to redesign the housing.

    The self ejecting design is balanced to work with the then available ammo--standard velocity. Since bullet weight is the same between standard and high velocity--to get the higher velocity a higher chamber pressure is required. This may not adversely affect the rifle but I don't have spare parts available and a catatrophic failure can ruin your day. It is not worth the risk when standard velocity will work anyway. These guns are for fun--not target work.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I have one of this a Bayard only pic and info could find was on www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20s%20a%20anciens%20ets%20gb.htm - 27k -IF ANYBODY FINDS MORE ON THIS GUN PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

  6. #6

    Default

    I too have one of these curosities. It's a Bayard/Pieper "half automatic" single shot boys rifle chambered for .22SH. I believe that they were manufactured before WWI, about 1909. There's a brief description of these little rifles in the Dope Bag section of an issue of American Rifleman, can't remember what issue at the moment, and in James Grant's "Single Shot Rifles - Finale", pg. 122.

    Here's a few pictures of my example:








    LDHare
    Last edited by LDHare; 02-03-2008 at 07:06 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Daytona Beach area.
    Posts
    145

    Default Nice Rifles.

    If and when I ever decide to add foreign-made to my .22rf single-shot collection, the Bayard/Pieper would be one of the first I'd start searching for. Right now I've go enough on my plate with just U.S. and Canadian.

    Good looking pics, LD.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ FloridaFialaFan

  8. #8

    Default

    GGN: Thanks for the compliment. I'm a little confused though since I thought you also collected Gevarms, in addition to the Fiala's. At any rate, the europeans did make some very interesting firearms. Some were a bit unusal, especially some of the Belgium and French examples, so you maybe missing out on some really neat oddballs.


    LDHare

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Daytona Beach area.
    Posts
    145

    Default About Those Gevarms...

    I can understand your confusion LD. To set the record straight - my main thrust in collecting is for older, .22rf single-shot pistols and rifles. At the head of this group is my Fiala herd.

    All others in the collection are of secondary interest and I am concentrating on obtaining only ONE of each variety I happen to like, rather than buying multiple specimens - like the Fialas.

    Over the years I've owned a dozen of the little E1 Gevarms. I have only one left now. Also have their beautiful Model A7, which is at the other end of the scale for their .22rf rifles.

    Nowadays they're just out of sight in price. There's an E1 on GunBroker right now with an opening bid of $500! That's the same gun that sold for $49.95 at K Mart back in the '60s!!! I can no longer afford to COLLECT THEM!

    I love most guns, especially the more unusual ones. Recently added two such single-shot .22s on revolver frames, from two of America's largest iconic handgun makers: a Colt Camp Perry and a S&W Model of 91. A side latch and a top-break, both from Greg Martin out in CA. One WITHOUT recoil shields and one WITH the shields!

    I digress.... Anyway, LD, Fialas are my main squeeze, but I'm guilty of having the occasional "affair" with some other oddball U.S.-made, S-S, .22rf, pistol or rifle.

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ FloridaFialaFan

    Have you seen or heard about THIS oddball? Should be on its way to me...
    Photo furnished by seller...
    Last edited by FloridaFialaFan; 02-09-2008 at 11:14 PM.

  10. #10

    Default

    Hello Breakeyp

    You can translate Hollands roem by Hollands fame or Hollands pride. They carved a mill in the buttstock, and a mill is something typical for Holland. They have a great history in that and nowadays you can still find them around there.

    Good luck with the nice piece of belgian craftsmanship you have!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Thank you. The translation was from the owner but your make more sense. best, p.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default

    I have one of these, but unfortunately, even a standard velocity .22 short proved too much for the striker. It's fractured, but not broken through, and if anyone has a spare.... hey, I can dream, can't I?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebc View Post
    I have one of these, but unfortunately, even a standard velocity .22 short proved too much for the striker. It's fractured, but not broken through, and if anyone has a spare.... hey, I can dream, can't I?
    Since you have the part and it is relatively whole, you can use it as a pattern to make a new one. A true gunsmith might be expensive. Try the local high school machine shop class. Our school does car repair and the like.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Good idea, thanks.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Just for fun, will your broken gun chamber accept a .22 long rifle cartridge? I wonder if someone opened the chamber and fired .22 high speed resulting in your broken part. That would confirm my admonisment to not use high speed ammo in these old guns.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    minnesota , USA
    Posts
    1,531

    Default

    FFF thats a nifty looking handgun - suspect homemade grips - wonder what the originals looked like ?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Daytona Beach area.
    Posts
    145

    Default

    A Square 10, my thoughts exactly.

    Regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Good thought - and yes it does accept a .22 long. The only history I have for the rifle is that a previous owner was using very low powered rounds called "buzzbees" in it, and that it had a very healthy ejection- the brass apparently really flew quite a distance. I inherited it literally in pieces mixed up with other bits, and put it all back together. I didn't notice any problem with the striker, but then, I wasn't looking either. I managed to put a very few .22 shorts thru it before it jammed and I found the striker to be broken.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stevebc View Post
    Good thought - and yes it does accept a .22 long. The only history I have for the rifle is that a previous owner was using very low powered rounds called "buzzbees" in it, and that it had a very healthy ejection- the brass apparently really flew quite a distance. I inherited it literally in pieces mixed up with other bits, and put it all back together. I didn't notice any problem with the striker, but then, I wasn't looking either. I managed to put a very few .22 shorts thru it before it jammed and I found the striker to be broken.
    Healthy ejection does not equate with a "low power" load unless the bolt return/retardation spring has collapsed. Good luck, it is certainly worth working on.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Hi All, first time poster here! I inhereted a rifle from my grandfather when i was a child and am now looking into restoring it (some 25 years on). I kept it because i was told it was rare (semi auto single shot) and being much older and wiser now I understand a litle more about it and its workings. I have had a hell of a time finding info about it until i found this page - so a huge thanks!

    It appears to be exactly like the two specimens shown here! the barrel seems to have been affected by external rust pitting prior to me getting it and hence the markings were almost unidentifiable however with some super-sluthing i can make out what is clearly pictured in the first post.

    My piece has a broken stock but apart from that; with a good clean, new stock and a thorough service i can't see why it wouldn't be able to fire once agian. Any info about a replacement stock would be greatly appreciated along with any info from someone else perhaps even in Australia that may have a similar piece... also... can someone post picutres of the face of the bolt. Mine appears to be rough like blow back damage to the face of the bolt or is this normal??

    Thanks again and thanks in advance for any further info - Cheers Ben

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3

    Default

    FYI - here is the content of an info sheet i have compiled on my gun... Thought it may come in useful for someone and i can't post pics so sorry this is all i have - but PM me if you'd like some pics and i can email them to you.

    Thanks Ben

    Hand-Me-Down Rifle

    Cal .22 Semi-auto single shot rifle (or Half Auto) possibly Bayard??

    Barrel Markings:
    ANCIENS ESTABLISSEMENTS PIEPER HERSTAL BELGIUM BREVET S. C.(0. or G.?)D.G. PATENTED JAN (or CAN?) TE? (or MONTH, DAY, YEAR)

    Specs:
    • Has a rifled barrel (looks like left hand twist) which is about 24 inches long from muzzle to mounting surface where bolt pull back handle strikes when breach shut.
    • Has one solid notched back site held in with a single screw with one front site post on muzzle.
    • Hard-wood (Walnut??) stock with no butt-plate, single brass fitting on underside of butt (could be tapped) near rear sling swivel.
    • Front sling swivel on leading edge of stock facing 45 degrees forward.
    • Stock can be removed from gun with single bolt/screw in forearm.
    • Stock approx 24.5-25 inches long.
    • Some pattern carving on hand grip.
    • Removable trigger guard held in with 2 screws.
    • Single shot, not magazine fed and when fired ejects casing right and bolt stays open - been told...
    • Left-side rocker-type action closer
    • Safety on left side as well


    Apparently these were manufactured from 1907-1939 and existed in two types this one is the standard. The n° 1 (standard) measuring 980 mm, barrel 485 mm for a weight of 1600 gr. There was a longer luxury model also. Also came with a “pick or stick” to help clear obstructed barrels when the casing didn’t properly eject that screwed into underside of base of stock in brass fitting.

    http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20s%20a%20anciens%20ets%20carabine%20gb .htm

    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Eq2Dnj4sDZIC&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=bayard +half+auto+.22&source=web&ots=sapynaQCxQ&sig=xpNXY WPkvyTOJzD5zidfjLnJE90&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&r esnum=9&ct=result

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=14565

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
    42

    Default

    benhl, here are some pics that may help out-

    First, from an old catalogue:


    top of the bolt:


    bolt face:


    bolt face:


    underside of the bolt, and bolt face:


    underside and striker:


    and again:


    Take a close look at the striker, where the square section joins the cylindrical bit. That's where mine is fractured, so check yours out just in case.
    I still haven't done anything about mine, but it's fairly low priority, really. One day...

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thanks Mate - your bolt face looks far more "intact" than mine. Mine compared to that has severe pitting/blow back damage which may indicate a loose fitment when the bolt mechanisism is closed is suspect...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I have these guns my father bought 2 in eqypt and 2 possibly in Vegas, one states "Pieper & C (ie) Brevete 5751. And the others, I'm not sure where they are from, I replied on this post because the gun posted above looks very similar. Thanks for everyone's help on this one!
    Attachment 267496Attachment 267495Attachment 267497Attachment 267514Attachment 267513Attachment 267512Attachment 267511Attachment 267510Attachment 267509Attachment 267508Attachment 267507Attachment 267506Attachment 267505Attachment 267504Attachment 267503Attachment 267502Attachment 267501Attachment 267500Attachment 267499Attachment 267498

    I have this gun my father bought 2 in eqypt and 2 possibly in Vegas, one states "Pieper & C (ie) Brevete 5751. And the others, I'm not sure where they are from, I replied on this post because the gun posted above looks very similar. Thanks for everyone's help on this one!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default Bayard 22

    I have been given the same gun from my father. I am in the process of restoring this gun and cannot find any diagrams or pictures of parts. I am missing a spring and striker, but I do not know what else is missing and none of the local gun smiths can even find this gun in their literature.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    melbourne, australia
    Posts
    73

    Default

    I had one of these interesting rifles , until I fired a HV .22 LR . round through it, causing the cocking knob to blow off flying past my face , phu!! Needless to say I soon lost interest in this little shooter. One thing that bugged me was you couldn,t tell when it was cocked, because when the action was closed , there was no cocking indicator. Yer , I know it is marked for short or long cartridges, my own fault. Sold it at auction, and was surprised how much it went for. Cheers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •