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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    5

    Default Greener GP 12g Shotgun

    Hi all

    After some help from here i have found a date of manufacture for my Greener GP, its a 1961, does anyone know what MK (variant) this makes it ...

    Im thinking MK2?

  2. #2

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    The "mark" variations are to do with the way that the pins through the cation are secured. On an original GP they are held by retaining screws that have to be undone.

    In a "Mark II" by circlips.

    There are also Webley assembled GPs after they took over Greener. Some will have used Greener barrels with a "knox form" others a standard shot gun barrel with no "knox form".

    These can be found with and without the circlips.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Under the big sky, in the shadow of the Sweetgrass Hills
    Posts
    3,093

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enfieldspares View Post
    The "mark" variations are to do with the way that the pins through the cation are secured. On an original GP they are held by retaining screws that have to be undone.

    In a "Mark II" by circlips.

    There are also Webley assembled GPs after they took over Greener. Some will have used Greener barrels with a "knox form" others a standard shot gun barrel with no "knox form".

    These can be found with and without the circlips.
    Circlips was an abomination added by Webley's when they took over the manufacture of the guns in 1965.

    MK I was a police gun in 13 bore
    MK II was a police gun in special 14 bore-restricted chamber
    MKIII was a police gun with a three prong striker.

    Now while researching this I came across this bit of info on the GP.

    GP is is for Gaffer or General purpose shotgun. According to Greeners book the exact number of GP shotguns made is impossible to be determined as the serial numbers of these shotguns were not recorded untill 1968.

    If your gun is a Police gun then the serial number look up I did for you is correct. If your gun is a GP then it's not possible to determine the date made by serial number.

    Two models of GP are referenced. Standard model has no checkering and a barrel band. The second model had a better finish, checkering and looked more like a sporting weapon,

    The Greener Story by Graham Greener has a lot more on this gun and other Greener arms. The book is a bit spendy but I have found it quite useful in my Martini hobby. There are contradictions in the book. The text makes no mention of a MK designation in GP's. It refers to the checkerd version as Model number 2. A picture directly below the text of a checkered stock model is titled The Greener GP Mk I

    You should be able to look at the side of the action and see what it says to determine if you have GP or a police gun..
    Douglas

    "And don't forget. That isn't your Martini you have. It belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone. Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it." Malcolm Cobb, The Martini Henry Note-book
    *********
    To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com

  4. #4

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    The date that the gun was sent to British Proof Test can be found out. Look on the side of the barrel and there will be a code. It will have been so marked within a few weeks, certainly the same year, it was finished. It may have remained in stock with Greener (or Webley) but that will date its year of manufacture. If you visit http://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm

    Greener GP Mk II does exist as a Webley made version, with circlips, of the standard civilian GP. They are quite awful but also quite rare. However that does not automatically confer value! 1961? Yours if it is a GP and not an "EG" or "Police Gun" will be the standard GP that wasn't in its civilian version given a "Mark" number. Only in civilian guise the "Mark II".

    Here is a picture of one with those typical Webley features of no knox form on the barrel. Also if the image I've copied from elsewhere has come through the Mk II impression on the action. In the UK www.kirklees-guns.co.uk apparently have or had one for sale. In thirty years I'll admit to only ever seeing two of these GP Mk IIs! One last year and one about twenty years ago or more.

    Last edited by enfieldspares; 12-16-2009 at 07:28 PM.

  5. #5

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    Here's something I found on the internet...how much is 100% correct I don't know but it is an interesting read:

    "This futuristic weapon was built for riot control in Egypt during the early 1940's (serial number 417XX) by W. W. Greener of England. The shotgun was based on an improved Martini action, and was specifically designed to equip the Egyptian Ghafir police force with a weapon that would become useless if it fell into the wrong hands!

    Production of the earlier Mk. I and Mk. II Egyptian shotguns (13 and 14 gauge, respectively) began in 1922, with the intent that a criminal who bribed a police officer for his weapon would quickly run out of ammunition in these two obscure calibers. This worked reasonably well until the early 1930's, when enterprising bandits realized they could wrap a standard 16 gauge shell in tape and get it to fire. This practice was somewhat hazardous to the shooter, and one murderer was injured by the resulting blowback of his improvised cartridge which revealed the trick to the Egyptian authorities.

    The Mk. III was the result of further design changes designed to remedy this situation. First, the Mk. III chamber and Mk. III cartridge were bottlenecked, making the tape-wrapping work-around much more difficult. But that wasn't the most interesting design change: the firing pin of the Mk. III is shaped like a fork with three prongs, the outer two being longer than the center prong which contacts the primer. To complement this arrangement, the face of the Mk. III round has an annular groove encircling the primer, such that the two outer prongs of the firing pin are accomodated and the center prong may then strike the primer. Barring accomodation of the outer prongs of the firing pin, the shotgun will not even close on the round. Even if a conventional shotgun round was somehow forced to chamber, the contact surface of the firing pin would never be able to reach the primer, thus rendering the weapon useless.



    According to the book The Greener Story, just under 60,000 total Mark I, II, and III shotguns were made 1922 through 1964. 44,000 of these went to Egypt (serial numbers 1001 through 45000), and the subsequent 15,846 went to colonial police forces and prison services in such far-flung places as the Bahamas, Bechuanaland, British Guiana, Brunei, Ceylon, Cyprus, Fiji, Ghana, Grenada, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Kenya, Malaya, Nigeria, Northern Rhodesia, Nyasaland, Penang, the Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Somaliland, Southern Rhodesia, Sudan, Tanganyika, Tanzania, Turks & Caicos, Uganda, Zambia, and Zanzibar. "


  6. #6

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10

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    Just a general question; Were the first Greener police and prison guns re-made from actual Martini mark1V actions or were they a new gun based upon the Martini mark 1V action?

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