I had the thought that there's a good selection of relatively inexpensive .380 handguns (Bersa, Kel-Tec, etc) which might very well be able to fire 9x18 if the chamber could be safely modified to fit that cartridge, or if there were replacement barrels available in 9x18. Anyone have any insights or suggestions? I don't know enough to know whether this is even feasible; any constructive input is appreciated.
We had a similar discussion over here and on KTOG about the P3AT, but the consensus there was not positive - too close to the edge of the P3AT's limits, and 9x18 wouldn't fit in the P3AT's mag
If I can find the KTOG thread I'll post a link to that as well. I think best bet would be to take a PF9 down o 9x18, instead of taking a P3AT up. Of course, the PF9 isn't as much of a pocket gun so it would kind of defeat the purpose.
Thanks for the reply. I read through the thread you posted and it confirmed my suspicions that modifying the existing barrels isn't feasible. I agree, powering down a 9x19 gun isn't a worthwhile endeavor.
There is a company in Belgium that makes a drop-in barrel for the Glock 17/19 so you can have a Glock 9x18 Makarov if you want.
They claim their target audience is focused toward the countries that are still using the 9x18 mm Makarov cartridge which they see as mainly Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Asia.
They say "while the 9 mm Makarov is a extremely reliable defense pistol, the tactical accessories for it are completely outdated. Our conversion allows the use of the old 9x18 ammunition stock in a new weapon with a lot of tactical accessories. The Glock 17 / 19 with a 9x18 conversion set gives a new life to the 9x18 caliber. "
It will be interesting to see if any of the kits make it to the US.
had I known about that, I would never have sold my G27! That 7.92mm round seems to have some serious capabilities, too - 610mm penetration in gelatin = ~24"!
Thanks for sharing. I would like to get my hands on some of that ammo or bullets even for reloading.. Is it safe to assume that it will function in any 9x18mm caliber pistol?
If your talking about the VBR-B 9x18 KATE Ammunition then the answer is no because they increased the over all cartridge length to 29.6 mm. It is for the converted Glock only.
I have been curious about a Glock 17 / 19 makarov conversion for some time. Since Makarov is a lower pressure round than the 9mm luger, it seems like you could take a 9mm rifled barrel, over bore is from .354 to .359, then rifle to .362. The chamber would need to be shorter for the 9x18 round, butm luger and 9mm makarov share the same base size? Instead of makring the chamber tapered for the 9mm luger, a straight sided chamber should be easier to cut than a 9mm luger.
Finally, hot 9x18 ammo approaches low 9mm para ammo in strength.
Lone Wolf could probably do it. Of course, a certain amount of conceal-ability would be lost - Glocks are on the thck side, after all, though the possibilities of 33 rounds of 9x18 in a G 17/19/26 are pretty astounding, and it would open up a whole new universe of accessories and options. For that matter a 22/23/27 frame would work as well, with 9mm mags.
Personally, I'd rather see a 9x18 barrel option for the PF9 or P11 because they fit in well with the needs and personality of the Mak community:
1) Inexpensive platforms - 280-320
2) Accessory options, particularly the PF9, which has an accessory rail.
3) Light polymer construction - existing guns are small, but HEAVY
4) A handful firing 9mm, should be pretty docile with 9x18.
5) Delayed-blowback operation is easier to hand-cycle than straight blowback
I sent a email to info@innovativearms.com asking about custom 9x18 barrel for a Kel Tec PF9 and got this response back.
Thanks for your inquiry. It sounds to be a feasible idea. Just off the top of our heads, a 9mm barrel blank would run about $150.00 (if none were scraped the blank would make about 4 barrels). We would need your weapon/barrel to copy outside dimensions, and the magazines/followers would have to be permanently modified to take up the length loss with the Makarov round. We also think another recoil spring may need to be used. Ideally we would like an order for all 4 barrels to make it worth the effort.
Regards,
Phillip & Jenny Woodell
INNOVATIVE ARMS LLC
Do Keltecs do well with steel-cased ammo? I've heard of people using steel-cased .380 in their P3ATs. But I believe some of them were experiencing a good number of FTEs.
Youngest son recently bought one of the Keltec .380's. He ran two boxes of LVE green box thru it with no problems. The only ammo that I know of he had problems with was some older Federal hp's that he had some FTF's with.
Can't say about the 3AT, but my S2K doesn't like it much, and KT recommends against it. I got rid of all my steel-cased 9mm - x39, 9x18 even 223 are great, but 9mm just seems to be a consistent problem for me.
I've not seen any of it in several years, ST was hunting some a while back and I don't think he found any. What I have I got from Dans @10 years ago for $90/1,000 shipped. Now that youngest son has a .380 I'll have to keep a eye on it. Sure do miss the Green Box LVE and esp. the old prices.
Two years ago at the Puyallup gunshow in Washington a guy was practically giving away 380 green box. I think it was $5 a box and he couldn't find buyers.
I don't own a Kel Tec PF9 now but I think I would buy one if I could get a 9x18 Makarov barrel for it. Small, thin and light with the power or the 9x18 would make a good CCW and maybe even be more suited than the 9MM PARA to the little PF9. Does anyone else think this sounds like a interesting hybrid? MoMaks
Innovative Arms does have some really cool stuff - I like the LCP and Hi-Point carbine in 32NAA
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