Hahn Machine M14 quesitons

[Handsome Devil]

Many years ago when I first got Shotgun News, there was a guy in the St Louis, Mo area {St Charles ?} called Hahn Machine. He was a class 2 FFL and rebuilt/welded M14's to full auto. This was legal at the time. He also sold welded M14 receivers with the FA lug ground off, re-serialized and marked the bottom of the receiver "Hahn Machine". I had called him a number of times because I wanted one and was curious as how legal it was. He stated he had a letter okaying from the ATF and he openly marketed these for years. I think he retired and is probably gone now as it has been years since I saw these ads. I know all about the rule of "once a machine gun always a machine gun". I also am aware that MKS got all of there welded semi auto receivers recalled by the ATF as they didn't have a letter with approval or possibly for leaving the FA lug on, even though it was welded closed. I have never heard of any trouble with the Hahn Machine SA M14 receivers being illegal? But I never see or hear of them for sale? Maybe people are scared to sell them or they feel they are valuable and don't want to sell them? The next time I go to Knob Creek I will try and remember to ask.

My question is value on one of these. I saw one on auction a few years back, tried to save it so I could watch it to see the final selling cost, but lost the auction. I think it was on Auctions America or some similar site that I don't go to now or then. Found it by a fluke of luck. I also do not know what a "fluke" is. So if one came up for sale what would they be worth? Heard of one built up with all TRW matching parts. Doubt I will pursue it, but the Hahn thing has always got me interested. I have seen Hahn Machine full auto rewelds for sale, but never hear anything about the welded Semi autos. I suppose I could call ATF and ask them, but thought maybe someone here would know. Obviously MKS got out of it and I talked to them too at Perry one year as they had one on display. Real nice work too, crying shame to have to give one of them back. I do not see myself paying big bucks for what my SA INC M1A will to and it is paid for, just for an original mfg stamp on the back of receiver. But had always been a dream years ago. Any knowledgeable info on this?

I had on loan many different NM M14s from our state association and they didn't shoot any better than commercial M1A's. A well tuned rifle will shoot as good as the shooter can hold, a worn rifle will not. Many of our state M14s were worn out, the few that had good barrels were kept in closets by people who didn't shoot them. The worn out ones were available to new shooters like I was at the time. Sure wish I hadn't had to turn mine back into the system. They are all gone now, probably rebuilt and on duty in the mid east.

Cheers, John

[Clyde]

I think MKS was Mike Kelly - and if so, he didn't, exactly, "get out of it". Wound up with a conviction in Federal Court and minor time and some probation, i believe. Had the case and out-come at one time (I got subpoenaed to appear asa witness - long story that - but the subpoena was withdrawn when the case plead out prior to trial). No idea where the file I kept is now, likely in a box in storage. Waiting for the mood to strike me to shred some more retired files.

[Handsome Devil]

I am pretty sure it was MKS as I wanted to buy one of there receivers, but they were very expensive. Guess that goes along with good workmanship. Never followed real closely what happened, just heard that people were getting calls from the ATF to turn in the receivers. This is kind of why I keep trying to find out about these Hahn Machine rewelds without the lug and all the BS that Hahn Machine did to make them remanafactured and do so legally. Thought it was a father/son venture. They had a great product. Didn't they re-emerge as yet another company with drop forged receivers, again with excellent workmanship? I got out of the M14 type rifles for the most part, sold most of my spare parts. But it is still my favorite rifle in the semi auto mode. Keeping them in top match grade condition when your using them a lot can be a little work. And they do require a little voodu at times, but you got to love "em".

Cheers, John.

[Ordtech]

Just get a newly manufactured reciever like a Springfield Armory Inc or Fulton. There is some controversy and much supposition about the MKS recievers, but they were few to begin with and not likely to be cheap if found, assuming ATF let any stay in circulation. Anyone else who tried to market reweld M14 recievers did not get permission from ATF to market them.

[Handsome Devil]

I wasn't really questioning the MKS ordeal or legality of their receivers, to much controversy for me. Only mentioned it because I know of the fine line drawn in the past with ATF and the some of the trouble they had. I have two M1As for match rifles so it is not that I am really needing one. My real question is value on the Hahn Machine built receivers that were sold for many years through shotgun news. He also built and sold class 3 welded M14 receivers that are still occasionally for sale in the class 3 realms. I don't hear anything about the semi-auto. Saw one on auction a few years ago and that was the only semi Hahn Machine receiver I have seen for sale.

Being that he was a lic 02 FFL and was building and selling class 3 weapons as a business, advertised in Shotgun News for quite a few years is why I am asking. It was not an overnight operation and was not underground he was quite in the open back then. Don't know how many he sold because if I remember right you could buy a new SA INC receiver for the same money and not have to worry about the welding/workmanship on the rewelds. I know he added or changed sn# and stamped the bottom of the receivers with his company name. Either people who bought them are afraid to talk about them or not many were sold. I never heard from anybody that he had troubles with ATF about them and he actually did have a letter of some sort to re manufacture those cut receivers with the select fire lug cut or ground off. Supposedly there was a copy of the authorization from ATF floating around, but I have never seen it. Just hoping someone out here had experience with the Hahn Machine receivers or knows of their value. Thanks, John.