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12-15-2009, 06:23 PM #1
Custom 1917 Enfield Project (Another Rifle, continued)
Some of you may have watched my last project with my K98 Mauser in .220 Swift. Well being that that rifle is almost finished, I have decided to start on my next project. It is going to be a mid-weight Customized P17/1917 Eddystone Enfield military conversion. It will have a Hart Stainless #4 contour barrel with 1-10" twist, and most likely a Richards-Microfit Dual Thumb hole stock on it. It's going to be chambered in .308 Norma Mag. Everything else will be explained and added as I go along.
Now before your head pops off in a outburst of rage because I'm customizing a "collectible" military rifle, I bought the thing already sporterized, with the rear bridge contoured and it was a converted hunting rifle when I bought it. So I didn't disgrace any old military rifle, and yes, I know how much an original is worth. That being said, this rifle will most likely be worth more than an original when I am finished. It will be a fine custom rifle that was made by hand and not in a factory somewhere.
The following posts will be of my progression along the way. I'm hoping to get this one done in 3-6 months. My last K98 project will have taken about 10 months when it is all said and done.
I have most of the parts already for this one. I have the barrel and the gun parts. All I need to buy yet is a new Timney trigger, and a stock. Everything else ether needs to be done by hand or at the smiths. I will be headed up to my fiance's grandfathers to put the barrel on, so if he lets me do some of the work I'll take a bunch of pics, otherwise I'll still try and get some. The Bluing will most likely get outsourced, and everything else will get done by me.
If anyone has any questions as always please feel free to chime in and I'll do my best to answer any questions, and comments are always welcome!
Here are the before pictures. This is what this gun looked like when I bought it. Still enough material to work with, but not the best looking thing in the world. I bought it as a parts gun but the only thing that was really wrong with the gun, other than the stock, was that the extractor had been messed with. I replaced it and everything else is fine.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 02-27-2011 at 08:13 PM.
12-15-2009, 06:37 PM #2
Day 1... kinda.
I will say before I say anything else that the way I do things may not always be the accepted way, or the easy way, but it works for me, and I don't intend others to follow my actions, but to observe and for the some of the less experienced, give a chance to see one way that some of this stuff can be done. Most of the stuff that I do here I learned or am copying work that my fiances grandfather has done in the past 40 years of working on these Enfields. If I have questions... I can ask one of the top Enfield guys in the country, Her Grandfather! .........phew... OK.... now lets get onto it!
I bought this thing a while back and have been sitting on it. When I first got it I took to the receiver and cut off the rear bolt stop spring button, and contoured it to match another custom P17 that I have. That was done a while ago, and tonight I finally got back to the old mans shop to do some more work on it.
First thing I wanted to do was to take off the rear stripper clip guides. It was fairly easy to see what I wanted because I had pictures and another rifle, to go off of for a pattern. I started by cutting off the majority of the material with a plain old hack saw. Then A course metal file, and then A mill bastard file of a couple different shapes and sizes. Everything was followed up with some 320 grit sand paper to clean everything up.
One more thing, I did straighten the bolt on this one when I first got it too. This was my first Bolt Bend, and it turned out fairly well. Since then I have done about 12 more bolts, Enfields and Mausers and I have gotten really good at making these things look perfect. The bolt originally had an engine turn pattern on it, I buffed most of that out and will buff the rest of it out when I am finished.
Here is what I ended up with.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 02-27-2010 at 08:57 PM.
12-15-2009, 06:44 PM #3
Saftey weight loss!
The other thing I did tonight was to grind down the saftey lever. I never thought about this till the other day when I was in Corky's shop and saw an Enfield that he had finished a while back, but the receiver was in for final finish. Corky's is my fiances grandfather by the way, the Enfield guy, and he's a gunsmith if you haven't caught on to that by now.
Anyways there is a little lip on the outside of the lever that sticks out and I ground it down. Every little bit helps on these things, they are relativley heavy if you have never held one. It should be fairly manageable by the time I'm done. I'm hoping it will weigh in somewhere around 10 lbs or so when finished with a scope.
I ground it down using an regular hand grinder and a 120 grit sanding disc. Took about 3 minutes to do.
Here's a coupld more pictures. I don't know when I'll get around to working on this again but I'll keep everyone updated when something gets finished.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 02-06-2010 at 05:15 PM.
12-17-2009, 06:01 AM #4Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Thanks Very Much|!
Thanks very much spitfire__er, for the great information and excellent photos!
I also am a fan of the P series Enfields and their commercial cousins the Remington Models 30 and (rare) 720. Their strength and no-nonsense design have always favorably impressed me. I've accumulated more than a few of the military models exemplary of the era of utility sporterization. As such simple styles fell out of fashion, they could often be had quite inexpensively and with much of the customizing already accomplished. I've also always wanted to perform a conversion similar to the one you are undertaking and describing. For some years I used the excuse of insufficient time and tools. That was true, but the underlying fact was really always one of limited skills. "A man has to know his limitations." (From Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry", but oh so true!)
I personally see the best potential for these heavy actions in the long magnum chamberings. While I'm satisfied with them in their original calibers, they do seem overly heavy for most applications. (And what about the big Model 30 in 25 Remington chambering!) Ergo, my vision of one in a heavy big bore mag.
I appreciate your lightening efforts as well as the esthetic factors which you (and/or your inlaw) seem particularly skilled in achieveing.
My particularly preferences in these Enfields also runs to some original design features. First, I rather like the striker cock-on-closing feature as incorporated in the military configuration and carried into the early commercial Remington sporters. I also like the deep-well, 'pot bellied' military magazine configuration which offers the potential of a much slimmer forearm conbined with the possibility of an extra round. This seems particularly useful in heavy magum configurations. This very concept is highly appreciated in the 'dropped magazine' style of mauser sporters, but is completely ignored, if not disfavored, in the Enfield design.
Well enough! Thanks again for the execllent photos and description. I hope that you will continue to post such, which I will follow in my 'Walter Mitty' fashion.
12-17-2009, 12:05 PM #5
Thanks for the kind words. I know that the P series Enfields may not be the best action to start off of for a custom rifle project, but some of the ones that Corky has done have been some of the nicest custom rifles that I have seen outside of the custom target rifles. That on top of when I am finished with this project, I will have a custom rifle that was hand built, not bought off a shelf somewhere, shoots 1/2 MOA or better, is build the way I want it, and I can say that it's one of a kind.
If you use the right material for a stock and do some modifications, these rifles are not that much heavier than a standard rifle. I have another P14 that Corky did that has a #7 contour barrel on it and a heavy laminate stock, and that rifle wights in at 12.5 lbs. I just weighed my custom Ruger in .243 win that I have hunted with for quite a few years and it weights 10 lbs fully loaded with scope and everything. I didn't even notice it weighted an extra pound or two over a modern off the shelf rifle.
As for the floorplate, yes I did straighten it, or at least I found one that was straightend. With the look that I am going for the straight forearm looks much better in my opinion that the deep belly.
And for the Remington Model 30 which was the first commercial sporting rifle that Remington sold. I just got one of those the other day. The one that I have is a 30 Express in .30-06 and weighs in at around 7.5 lbs.
I also converted this to cock on open. I know some people love the cock on close, but I really love the cock on open. For those of you that may not know, Dayton Trister sells a cock on open cocking piece for the conversion.
Here are a couple pictures. One is of the Model 30 Express that I have, and the other is of the P14 that Corky did a few years back. This project will end up looking like the P14 but with a thumb hole stock and a lighter stainless barrel. The guy that did the stock on the P14 did not do a very good job and I was not happy with the work. You can see that there is too much wood around the bottom trigger guard and the wood is not flush with the metal like it should be. Also the finish on it has something to be desired. On this project I will be finishing the stock to make sure that it is done right. I also need to re-do this stock, but am putting it off as long as I can.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 02-20-2010 at 05:43 PM.
12-18-2009, 02:34 AM #6Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
A couple of nice rifles. Perhaps I'm missing something in the pix, but your custom looks mighty nice to me. I guess I don't really see the stock detials you mention as issues. As long as a stock design is good, fits me well and is sufficiently rugged in a mag application, that's really all I need. I want a stock that I can take into the field without too much concern, rather than a work of ar to worry about damaging. I noticed that your photo file names reflect 7 MM. Is it now a 7 MM Remington, or 7MM Mauser, or...?
Re the Remington 30. It surely wasn't Remington's first sporting rifle, but I think that you just misstated your intended remark. Those early models 30 had a terrible stock design that really amplified the felt recoil! I have a couple. One is like yours, in 30-06 and the otheris in 30 Remington. Even the little thirty is not pleasant to shoot. I also have two of the late Models 30 with the much improved and modern factory design stocks. One is in 30-06 and the other in 257 Roberts. Rounding out such, I have three Models 720. None are completely original since they are each D&T for scopes. They are interesting rifles with some nice features, but something of an anomaly with their rather ugly alloy trigger guards and screw secured floor plates! This feature is neither pretty or especially functional.
As a last comment, I've both read of and noted a 'stickeyness' issue in some of the P17 series military models. It was attributed to the nickel steel used. Some rifles seem to have a bit of stickeyness and others do not and it doesn't seem to depend on lubricant issues or manufacturer. None of the commercial Remingtons I own or have examined seem to have this situation. I wonder if you might have ever noted any such?
Thanks for the reply and additional pix!
Last edited by iskra; 12-18-2009 at 02:37 AM.
12-18-2009, 09:11 AM #7Senior Member
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- Sep 2008
The first thing that struck me is that by cutting so much of the rear bridge away and exposing the tail of the extractor your inviting jams you'll notice the Remington didn't do so for a very good reason and for once it was not just cost cutting .
Now I don't understand why you don't make the rear bridge to a reconised profile and in doing so simplify the scope mount options and in doing so you would lose the clips slots like so:-
yet still keep the extractor tail with in the bridge and retain more action strength.
Whilst I don't have any Remingtons I do have this BSA conversion:-
This a a sporterised P-14 and of course is 303 British still :D
A neat way of filling the hole under the rear sight
The rifle as it is now wearing it's new Redfield 70RWH reciever sight and yes the stock has a small schable tip. The conversion is an old one done by BSA sometime between 1949-1953. Notice how BSA straightened out the trigger guard and in doing so slimmed the profile.
I have a much sadder condition one which is a project waiting to be done, it needs new barrel and re-stocking and I am wondering about getting a US 1917 magazine box for it and making it a .300 Win Mag :D but no decisions have been made as yet. The stock will be first to get.
In the wings also waiting is a Century Arms P-14 conversion also in 303 that is not chambered for the 303 Improved cartridge, not the ".303 EPPS" I might add as this one has a shorter neck so more body capacity, this particular rifle needs the rear bridge machined down more as Century only did it half heartily and so far I have been unable to find out what scope mounts it's supposed to use. They left it like this:-
with only half the job done the stock profile is awful with many styling errors like the drop belly to the forestock :-
So the stock will have to be re-shaped and I might just remove the drop to the magazine as well but have not made up my mind on that point yet. But one thing for sure is that the bolt handle needs altering as I don't any forging facilities not experience in doing so I will probably make up a new handle and cut the old one off and drill the stub then pin and weld a new one in place using a MIG rig. I will also D&T the side of the rear bridge to accept a reciever sight which I have already procured and bore out that horrid oval into a round and shrink fit a round bung into the hole that can be Drilled and Tapped for a scope base.
This is the reason I came to look at thsi post to see how others do theirs .
12-18-2009, 09:20 AM #8
are you getting a synthetic or wood stock for it?
12-18-2009, 11:12 AM #9
If you check out my last project the K98, that how I handled the stripper clip on that one.
Also here are a couple pictures of another one that I did. It is not finished but most of the rough work is done. The arrow points out where the little chamfer goes for the extractor. The other show a different configuration to the rear tang area and a different way to place the bolt stop spring. The spring gets bent back and fits into the recess. You can't see it very well in the picture but the spring recess is at a swept back angle to the spring probably about 60-70 degrees. Also a little corner of the rear tang was taken out to cut weight.
I also like to see how others do theirs. It's always neat to see different ways to do conversions.
Oh, and as for you straightening your bolt handle. The way that I do it is to place a heat sink inside the body, coat the entire end in heat stop paste and heat the bolt with an acetylene torch and bend it straight. Then it is ground on with a sanding disc, filed and sanded again with 320 and 400 grit, and polished.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 02-27-2010 at 09:17 PM.
12-18-2009, 12:08 PM #10
As for the Rem 30 this is what I meant, "It was the first high-powered bolt-action sporting rifle produced by Remington". Also I'll take one of those 720's off your hand if you don't need all three!
As for the sticky bolt issue, my P14 has that issue every once in a while but it is very sporadic and does not happen very often. It is not enough to hinder cycling during hunting, but on the bench I notice it once in a while. I'm not sure otherwise. I can ask Corky this weekend and see what he says. If anyone know he would.
12-18-2009, 10:46 PM #11I am putting a wood or laminate stock on mine. Most likely one from Richards-Microfit.
12-18-2009, 11:46 PM #12
12-18-2009, 11:57 PM #13
my second which was way better was for my marlin 336.
kinda hard to see with my cheap camera but the stock has full fiddle.
my third was for my stevens 311 double barrel.
next ill be building one for a p14 that ill be customizing.
its not very hard to learn, just takes patience. best bet would be to try with a cheap piece of wood on an inexpensive single shot 22. the inletting would be easy and if you mess up your not out much.
12-19-2009, 06:07 AM #14Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
In re; In re; In re...
A lot of great information and photos. Some comments, perhaps not in order.
Re 7MM Remington Mag. I have a prejudice for almost anything 7mm and particularly like this RM round. Additional remarks tempting but off topic.
Re Action "stickiness". I am not referring to any kind of binding, but a perpetual condition the opposite of slickness. I have not noted actual binding in any of my rifles of these models. As an aside, the later Remington Models 30 introduced a guide rib on the bolt. I have never seen the utility of this feature since neither the Enfield military models nor earlier Models 30 seemed to require it!
Re Clip guide removal. I see no need for clip slot removal (or even alteration) in all but the long mag chamberings where unfettered access to the magazine box is desirable. Otherwise per Brithunter, if the unaltered appearance offends, then the modification shown in the photos, ala Remington Model 721 style, seems a reasonable alternative.
In relation of larger alteration affecting the extractor operation, Brithunters remarks seem a logical conclusion. Yet the original Oberndorf magnum mauser action also exhibited the same lack of rear support for the extractor in preliminary extraction rotation. This seems never to have caused a problem in these dangerous game guns where functionality was paramount. So my tentative no-harm conclusion is that the same situation would be true of the Enfield/30 actions.
Re Bolt handle configurations. I've always considered the original design a bit strange and do prefer the 720 style. However, I would not alter the original just for esthetics and to me it does seem perfectly functional. (Remington must have thought so too, in the reversed style of the Model 600. Although there, functionality was a consideration via a vis trigger placement.)
Re The 720. Thanks, but I'll hang on to them!
I've wanted to convert one of them to a big long mag. But even though not quite original, they are perhaps still a bit too much in the collector realm to make such alteration reasonable. Actually, a look alike configuration is achievable exceping the wierd bottom metal (and who would want that) and the nice bolt release design.
Re Century sporters. I recall them being offered quite some years ago in the original 303 Br and in 7mm Rem Mag, both at quite reasonable prices. They were offered without sights but D&T for scope mounts and simple commercial stocks. I saw a very decent one a couple of years ago in 303, at only $150. Alas I was out of state which potentially added too much additional cost/hassle. I do like the pictured pot belly stock, although not as well in monte carlo configuration. Again, such based on my ideas of functionality rather than objective beauty. The conjectured slimmed down version on the big Enfield action would seem to have worse proportions.
A final observation. I examine these models whenever I find one. Over the years, more than any other rifles, I've noted a propendency of sporterized military model Enfields to have receivers refinished to the point of removing the nomenclaure! Old work I am sure, dating to the days when such was inconsequential. Still, I wonder if anyone has often encountered this situation?
Thanks again spitfire_er and others for the instructive and entertaining contributions!
Last edited by iskra; 12-19-2009 at 06:20 AM.
12-25-2009, 05:09 PM #15
Re Action "stickiness". I think I know what you are talking about, and that is what my 14 does. It does not catch or bind on anything, it just has a "slow" spot every once in a while, that I would describe as the opposite of "slickness". It does not hinder regular shooting, but like I said before is noticeable on the bench every once in a while. That being said, I'm not sure what the problem is, if it is from a high spot on the bolt/action, or metal treatment. Ether way the 7MM Rem Mag shoots under 1/2 MOA regularly and is a hoot to shoot! None of the other 17/14's I have or have played with have this problem. It can also be the follower, which can be solved by buffing the top rail smooth.
Re Bolt handle configurations. I placed my two bolt handles side by side, an original and a reconfigured one. The placement of the bolt knob on the modified bolt ends up being in about the exact same position as the original. So bolt function, regarding handle placement, should not be hindered with the modifications I have shown above.
Re: past removal of the nomenclature. I have not seen to much of this done on the Enfields, however I have seen quite a bit of it on old Mausers. I can see where in the past it was not as big of a deal to keep the proofs, numbers, and crests on the reciever, and the metal was taken down as far as needed to remove pits, dings, or country of origin marks. Whereas now in most cases original condition and markings on these recievers want to be retained. I know of the ones that I have done with Mausers, I only take off enough to make the metal look good, and I always start with a good reciever, Not a rusted or pitted one, so minimal work is needed and depending on the action, the outside "layer" of heat treating is not hindered upon. I have a Mauser from the former Santa Fe Arms Corp that has been completely stripped of everything and re serialized back in the late 40's early 50's. If I were to buy another 1917/14 action for a sporter/custom project, I would tend to stear clear of the "buffed down" actions with no nomenclature on them, just for the fact that I don't know who did it and what they did to get it there. All of mine have been worked into customs from former sporterized military configurations, or sporter configurations that have had very minimal work if any done to the recievers.
On a side note, I'm most likely taking off for work in a week or two so I don't know If I'll get any photos of the action barrel operations. I'll see what happens, but the next time I see it I might be a finished barreled action. If so, I'll pick up with stock work, finishing, fitting, bedding and so forth. I'm headed out to Corky's here in a few days so we'll see if anything happens then.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 11-15-2010 at 10:05 PM.
12-25-2009, 06:16 PM #16Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 1969
- alvin texas
nice build, there are a few things i would do differently i were building it but its mostly personal preference & there's nothing wrong with the way its going now.
1917 bolt handles bite me during recoil, especially on the magnum sporters i've shot. i would have ran the bolt handle straight down instead of swept to the rear, i think they look better & they don't bite my hand during recoil.
i would completly scrap the safety & go with a ed lapour winchester style 3 position.
12-25-2009, 08:49 PM #17
That safety is neat. I'm not a big fan of the Winchester 3-position safety, but I sent him an e-mail for more information and may use one on a future project. Regarding the bolt handle I guess I have never had a problem with that, but it sounds like it could be an issue for anyone else that may be thinking about building one.
12-27-2009, 06:39 PM #18Junior Member
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- Dec 2009
what did you take to fill that horrid oval hole
12-27-2009, 07:51 PM #19
12-28-2009, 04:39 AM #20Senior Member
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- Oct 2008
One of the great things about the 1917 action is the basis it provides for individual customization. I personally like the original safety very much. I had the same thing on a Remington 725 that I owned. At least at that point Remington thought it a good idea for their upscale version of the 721/722 models. It seems very nice also in respect of the pieces of stamped steel that occupy a similar location on so many bolt rifles! I also certainly don't mind the hole in the bolt handle - or anything similar which offers even a fractional weight reduction! Filling it seems really 'guilding the lilly'! Ah, but that is what customization is really about!
Regarding stockmaking. I am in awe of those who have the time, patience and artistic eye for such! I still victimize myself as noted in the old saying: Please God give me patience and DO IT RIGHT NOW!
01-03-2010, 09:34 PM #21
Update. I dropped off my action out at Corky's today. I did work on a couple other rifles while I was there and will be taking off soon for work, so hopefully when I get back the barrel will be threaded and chambered for .308 Norma Mag. I can then finish the action up and send it off for bluing.
I ended up using my second bare action for this project because it will require less work. I did all the same stuff on the second one except for the rear tang area. The picture above with the cut out for the bolt stop spring is the action that I will be using.
I sent Ed Lapour an e-mail about his 3-position safety. He said he is currently out of the 1917 Enfield safety, but is planning on getting some more made in the next month or two. I don't think i'll use one because as of right now he is asking $275 for the kit which includes the shroud/safety, cocking piece and I believe a new spring. That's a little steep considering I can buy a new barrel for that price but we'll see. They sure do look nice though.
01-12-2010, 07:40 PM #22Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Spitfire_er I think your info will is great and will be very helpful on my Enfield project. What happened to the pics you posted of the Enfield? Did you have a text and pics of your K98 Swift project?
01-13-2010, 12:25 PM #23
02-06-2010, 05:12 PM #24
Well.. I'm still working on the pictures.
While I was out at the smiths today we chucked up and centered the barrel in the Lathe. I'll go back out Monday and hopefully get the threads cut. I'm not sure when we'll get the barrel finished, but sounds like I'll be doing most of the cutting. Corky's getting older and can't stand behind the lathe like he use to. So looks like I'll be getting some hands on barrel finishing time. I'll try and remember to bring out the camera and take some pics.
02-20-2010, 06:24 PM #25
Got the photos back up for those of you that were wondering. I was out at the smiths today but they had a shin dig out there today so no progress on the barrel. If I get time this week I'll get out there, otherwise I will head out there on Saturday to start on the barrel. I'll get some more pictures after that.
As I stated before I chose to go with my other action for this build. I did basically all the same stuff, but here is the back end of the receiver I will use for this one.
02-27-2010, 08:20 PM #26
Spent a few hours today working on my Hart SS barrel. We got it chucked up in the lathe a few weeks back and have not gotten to it till today. I was able to get the threads cut and the chamber half cut before I had to take off. Next thing I need to do is to cut a 42 degree cone on the back of the barrel to accept the enfield bolt. After I get the cone cut I can go back and finish the chamber. Should get back out there in a couple weeks to finish up the barrel.
Pic 1= The barrel on the lathe ready to go
Pic 2= Cutting the Shank down to the thread diameter
Pic 3= Cutting the shoulder and back of shank
Pic 4= Threads, almost there. cleaned it off with a rag so some little rag strands on there.
Pic 5= Fully threaded and the action fits!
Pic 6= Starting the chamber. I still need to cut the cone, but this is where I stopped.
03-13-2010, 09:28 PM #27
Barrel cone and extractor notch
I got out to Corky's today and worked on the ol' Enfield a little bit. While I was gone for the past couple weeks, Corky put the cone on the back of the barrel. I had to cut it back a little to allow for the bolt clearance, but I got it. I also set up the chamber and got it all finished. I ran the reamer in with the lathe till about the rear of the belt was almost covered. Took the barrel out fo the lathe, then finished it by hand. It took about 15 turns with the reamer by hand and I was there. The front of the lug on the P14 bolt was also dressed down to a P17 contour. The 14 barrels are flat on the rear of the barrel like mausers, so for the 14 bolt to work in the cone, we needed to buff off the front of the left lug to allow for the use of the 17 style cone. This is a very precise cut, so care is always taken to just buff off enough on the blot to allow the 14 bolt to close on the 42 degree cone!
I also had to cut the extractor cut which was done with a hand grinder, and then a dremel, then finished with a hand file and a little buff.
I only took one picture not thinking of you guys, but next time I'm out I'll take pictures of all the stuff I just talked about. Here is a picture of the cone and the start of the extractor cut.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 07-14-2010 at 11:47 PM.
05-29-2010, 01:25 PM #28
Alright, Got back to this a little. I did finish off installing the barrel and finish chambering, so everything there is good. I ended up using the P-14 bolt which has an extra 45 degree or so extractor cut along with the straght cut that is only needed for the 17's.
We got the bolt stop spring bent back too.
One big thing I got today was a couple old thumbhole blanks that have been sitting in Corky's shop for years. I got them in exchange for a little help around the place. They are both really rough and just started inletting. I would say I still need to do about 80% of the inletting. They were practice blanks when they first got their stock machine going, and I guess no one ever wanted to finish them off.
They are not perfect, but I think for the price I can make one work for this project. He said they are both cottonwood, and are super strong and really light weight... Perfect!
Here's a few photos, any help that anyone can give about inletting would be nice. I know how to do it (by hand) but any shortcuts would help. I'll try and keep track of my time so if someone else thinks about doing it, they can get an idea of what it takes.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 11-16-2010 at 09:34 AM.
06-02-2010, 11:38 PM #29
I have been working on my stock a little the past couple days. Being that the stock was not inletted I kinda free handed it and it turned out dang close. I used a router and but 80% of everything out and took the guard off and did some fine tuning. One thing I messed up on was when I went to put in the trigger guard, I placed it too far forward for the action. The left a small void on the front of the guard but I have a plan for that.
It didn't get super tight, but I'll fill in the small gaps with some acra glass. I'm also going to bed it with devcon so I'm not too worred about how it looks on the inside. I'm also going to add some wood to the sides of the forearm to wided it up a litte.
I smoothed quite a bit off with a little drum sander on my dremel. I also added a notch, which I don't really like, but it need to be there to allow for bolt operation and removal.
Here's where I'm at now. I have about 5-6 hours into the stock already.
06-03-2010, 02:11 AM #30
Thats pretty good for 6 hrs.I have a P-14 that I am wanting to lighten somewhat,and fit a decent stock to.Its a pity you can't get lightweight synthetic stocks for them....they are a nice action but heavy to lug around the hills for hunting.
06-03-2010, 02:55 PM #31
Once you get them all "trimmed up" they aren't that much heavier than a factory rifle. This one as is is sitting at just over 8 lbs as of right now, Shouldn't go much over 9 by the time I'm done.
Not sure if they ship to you, but "Richard Microfit" can carve one up for you! A future inlaw got a Exhibition grade Maple stock just like mine above, and it weights in at around 2 lbs.
06-12-2010, 10:20 PM #32
Bedding, Wood Patch, and Shooting!
I have done quite a bit lately and have not had the time to post stuff, so here's an update. I got around to bedding the action with Devcon 10110 steel putty. I bedded the entire action, pillar bedded the screw holes and bedded the trigger guard. As you can see I messed up with the guard and cut a little too much wood out.
Here's the fix for it. I added some burl maple that I had which I might change to Ebony becuase I'm not 100% sure I like the way this looks.
And last but not least..... I got to shoot it today! we loaded up some 165 gr Sierra HPBT's loaded with a Norma case, and 72.5gr of H4831SC. This was the last 5 of a string of 10 shots. The barrel heated up and threw the last two shots. If you can't read it my first three went 0.323" the 4th brought it out to 0.636 and the 5th shot when the barrel was getting warm it threw out the total 5 shot group to 1.055". When I get it all finished I'll shoot a good 5 shot and it should stay below 0.4" if I do my part. These were shot at 100 yards as usual.
Oh, we also got the new timney trigger installed, and the new Timney firing pin spring.
I still have a bunch of work to do on the stock and the finish of the gun so stay tuned!
07-05-2010, 12:08 AM #33
Well, after sanding down the stock and handling it a little, I decieded that the forearm was a little too thin for my liking. I ended up added two pieces of ebony on each side of the forearm. I wasn't sure which glue works best, so I ended up just using some acraglass and dying it black. It seems to have worked well.
After a little sanding and shaping, it ended up looking fairly well. Up to now, with a couple coats of true oil on, I have about 25-30 hours into the stock. I'm sure by the time I am done, I will have close to 50 hours of time into the stock including inletting, sanding, laminating, and finishing.
I found an old style Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14X40 AO scope for a good price, so I'll use that. I have had a few of these scopes and for the money, you can't beat them in my opinion. I'm not a fan of the newer ones just due to the fact that I like the AO, and not the newer side focus AO scopes.
I still have several coats of oil to put on the stock, and It still needs to get blued and polished, but the bluing and finishing of the metal will get done this fall. I'll take a few more photos, when I get the scope and shoot it a little more. Also when it is completely done, I'll post some photos.
For the most part it is done, shootable, and usable. I'll have to fine tune a load, but i'm not too worried about its capabilities bases on my test firing. I'll also do a cost run up on what this project cost me and try to include my time... which ends up being worth not a lot in a monetary sense.
Anyways, here's a few photos, and as always comments are always welcome.
07-14-2010, 11:54 PM #34
I don't see if I posted much on the use of my 14 bolt in a 17 action, so I'll post some photos here, and try and clear things up a little on the bolt.
I'll get some photos and more info up tomorrow but it's getting late.
I'll try and cover the
-14 bolt lug modification
-Cock on Open conversion
-bolt handle straightening
-firing pin lightening
and anything else I can think of. I know a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll get that all taken care of tomorrow.
07-15-2010, 08:51 PM #35
Alright here goes. First off, These modifications were all done under the supervision of a highly quilified gunsmith of 50 years. These are a little above the hobbists abilities, so take note that this is more of an explination of what it takes to modifiy these bolts.
First up is just a couple different bolt handle configurations. I have bent quite a few of these straight, but there is also the original configuration on the bottom, which some people prefer.
Next up is the cock on open conversion cocking piece. I know that Dayton trister makes these, and I have found another person that sells them, but not sure on the manufacturer. Ether way they both work great. This picture just shows the difference between the new cock on open (top) and the cock on close (bottom). Once again some people like the cock on close, but many prefer to do the conversion.
Sometimes when the new cocking pieces are added the firing pin protrusion is not correct and needs to be fixed. The way I was tought by Corky was to make a little larger cut in the cocking surface of the bolt. This is the way he does them if they even need tinkering. The top bolt has been modified, whereas the bottom bolt did not need any modification and the new cocking piece worked fine. You can see the "deeper" cut in the bolt on the top vs. the original contour bolt on the bottom.
Another thing which may be done, which sometimes needs to be done to allow for proper and safe use of the saftey function is to very lightly buff, or polish the bottom of the cocking piece where the sear engages. Depending on the problem sometimes the bottom and the front need to be modified.
Next up is the front of the bolt. Just a few pointers with the difference between the 14 and 17 bolts. You can see on this photo the two bolts, the bottom is the M1917 and the top is the Pattern 1914. You can see the difference in the front of the extractors. The 14 has a triagular shapped extractor claw, and the 17 on bottom has the flat claw. Both work equally well, but the 14 bolt needs an extra cut in the rear of the barrel to allow for the triangle to set back in the barrel. The original 14's had a flat back to the barrel, whereas the 17's had a cone. To allow the 14 bolt to fit in a coned barrel, you need to contour the left lug to the 17 contour. The pen is pointing the modified lug on the 14 bolt. Last but not least the 17 bolt is originally for the .30-06, so it has the standard bolt face. The 14 bolt had the .303 brit case, which works perfect with magnum cases.
The Firing pin. Shown in the following photo is two pins, the top a modified 14 pin, and the bottom the original 17 pin. With these conversions, we usually lighten the firing pin a little. This is done by extending the flats on both sides of the pin. You can see on the bottom original the flats end about half way down. The top bolt has been modified to extend the flats closer to the front of the pin. This allows for a little quicker lock time with a slightly lighter pin. That along with a new Timney, or Dayton Trister Firing pin Spring, increases lock time for these old war horses!
One last thing. The bolt shroud, The rear of the shroud is usally cut down to allow for dissasembly of the bolt, along with a little bit of lightening. You can see in the photo the top one has been cut down, and the bottom is in it's original length. With the newer stronger firing pin, this allows for easier dissasembly.
Anyways.. Hope you learned something and be sure to know what you are doing if you attempt any of these modifications.
Last edited by spitfire_er; 07-15-2010 at 09:10 PM.
07-18-2010, 01:32 AM #36Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- New Iberia, Louisiana
Spitfire_er was wondering what were your plans for the 1917 stock that had the drop for the unconverted floor plate. Reason I'm asking is that I have a winchester bbld action in 30-06 but no sporter stock. The bbl has been cut down to 21" short and sweet for hunting. This is how I bought it years ago. Would like to send out the bbld action and get it drilled and tapped so's I can use a scope. The old peepers aren't what they used to be. Thanks, Frank
07-20-2010, 10:38 PM #37
I have never had a stock with the drop belly. I see a couple other guys that posted here have one.
As for the action you can PM me if you have any questions.
P.S. I'm always in the market for one if you want to sell or trade too.
07-20-2010, 11:50 PM #38Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- New Iberia, Louisiana
Sorry for the confusion, got another poster's pics mixed up with yours. Bought the bbld action some years back. Someone spray painted with black enamel and it looked truely awful. I stripped the paint off and right now just finished polishing it. I have a '17 stock that has been cut down and will use it for cast bullet shooting. Frank
11-05-2010, 11:43 AM #39Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 1969
Very interesting thread, and I'd like to learn more about "Corky" and his rifles!
Not to depreciate your work, but there is something that always jumps out at me on a lot a sporterizations and reblue jobs etc. and that is rounded corners and wandering profiles and edges. The rotary polishing buff is a great thing, but personally I would rather see a semi-matte finish with clean, sharp profiles that look to my eye, both "factory" and "quality", than the high polish with rounded edges, and worst of all, wandering edges.
There really aren't many places on a receiver where there is room for a rotary buff to work without doing damage. It's slow work, but emery cloth backed by a piece of cold-rolled flatbar or a file is the only way I know of to retain the original profiles.
Just my two cents.
11-15-2010, 10:15 PM #40
As for my work, I only buffed the front of the rear bridge so I wouldn't cut myself on the sharp corner. Everything else has been done with emery cloth, and it was semi-sportered before I started. It has yet to be blued and the guy that does my bluing is one of the best around and does an unbelievable job and if you want sharp edges, you'll get them. I have yet to finsh the bolt handle also.
Here's a photo of one of the bolts I did a while ago. I did a batch of about 10 of them a bit ago. This is a 14 bolt.
On top of that I find sharp edges on a hunting rifle to be impractical, this is usually where bluing tends to wear the most and where dings happen more often.
Sorry just confused about your comment a little.
11-15-2010, 11:51 PM #41Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- New Iberia, Louisiana
Keep this going as I'm sure there are a lot of bubba'd enfields out there that need some cosmetic work performed. Thanks for sharing. Frank
11-16-2010, 09:05 AM #42
Anyways, I would'nt usually call one my rifles a sporter... and I guess it could be, but for the amount of work that is required, they are customs to me. They tend to shoot as well, or better than many "customs" out there.
Three shot Barnes 168 TSX Match (only had three bullets to test)
5 shot group. Shot on hardy backer so the group stayed on the paper. 168 Gr Sierra Match. Norma brass, WLRM, 72.5gr 4831SC. (same load as above)
In following tests, the Barnes will hold under 1/2" 5 shots, which in my opinion is pretty good for a magnum with a #4 contour barrel.
anyways, here is the almost done rifle. I still need to have it blued this winter, polished barrel, and put another 56 layers of oil on the stock. Total weight ended up being a pound heavier than I thought, which I can live with. I carried it hunting last weekend and it works well for me. Final weight is 11 lbs on the nuts. I also don't mind an extra pound on a magnum rifle because it makes it a little more pleasant to shoot. That along with the 1" decelorator pad. The ebony scales and additional expoxy added an extra 1/2 lb. These were an after thought so I came in pretty close to my original 10 lb goal. If I really wanted I could get a different maple stock and loose that pound, but then it wouldn't look as cool!
Last edited by spitfire_er; 11-16-2010 at 09:21 AM.
11-16-2010, 11:01 PM #43Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- New Iberia, Louisiana
I think you did an excellent job. Frank
11-23-2010, 11:15 PM #44
Forming 308 Norma Brass
Here is a quick how to on turning .338 WM brass into .308 Norma.
Step #1-Virgin .338 WM brass.
Step #2-Necking down to .308 diameter.
Step #3-Fire Formed brass. Using regular load.
Step #4-Finished product. (this is actually a Norma case, notice the longer neck)
That is the only down side to using .338 brass is the shorter neck. Other than that it works great.
12-03-2010, 04:57 PM #45Junior Member
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
this thread is unbelievable i have been building a lot of custom mausers and just recently acquired a P-14 enfield and there is little to no resources on the internet about customizing it, There is tons of aftermarket possibility for Mausers but the enfields are a dying breed. I am rechambering mine to a 404 Jeffery i been cropping the action and what not i have been really nervous with how to go about it and i still have a lot of questions but i will keep watching the threads and see what pops up. Thanks For posting such great knowledge