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Custom 1917 Enfield Project (Another Rifle, continued)

51K views 65 replies 17 participants last post by  spitfire_er 
#1 · (Edited)
Some of you may have watched my last project with my K98 Mauser in .220 Swift. Well being that that rifle is almost finished, I have decided to start on my next project. It is going to be a mid-weight Customized P17/1917 Eddystone Enfield military conversion. It will have a Hart Stainless #4 contour barrel with 1-10" twist, and most likely a Richards-Microfit Dual Thumb hole stock on it. It's going to be chambered in .308 Norma Mag. Everything else will be explained and added as I go along.

Now before your head pops off in a outburst of rage because I'm customizing a "collectible" military rifle, I bought the thing already sporterized, with the rear bridge contoured and it was a converted hunting rifle when I bought it. So I didn't disgrace any old military rifle, and yes, I know how much an original is worth. That being said, this rifle will most likely be worth more than an original when I am finished. It will be a fine custom rifle that was made by hand and not in a factory somewhere.


The following posts will be of my progression along the way. I'm hoping to get this one done in 3-6 months. My last K98 project will have taken about 10 months when it is all said and done.

I have most of the parts already for this one. I have the barrel and the gun parts. All I need to buy yet is a new Timney trigger, and a stock. Everything else ether needs to be done by hand or at the smiths. I will be headed up to my fiance's grandfathers to put the barrel on, so if he lets me do some of the work I'll take a bunch of pics, otherwise I'll still try and get some. The Bluing will most likely get outsourced, and everything else will get done by me.

If anyone has any questions as always please feel free to chime in and I'll do my best to answer any questions, and comments are always welcome!

Here are the before pictures. This is what this gun looked like when I bought it. Still enough material to work with, but not the best looking thing in the world. I bought it as a parts gun but the only thing that was really wrong with the gun, other than the stock, was that the extractor had been messed with. I replaced it and everything else is fine.

 
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#34 ·
bolt modifications.

I don't see if I posted much on the use of my 14 bolt in a 17 action, so I'll post some photos here, and try and clear things up a little on the bolt.

I'll get some photos and more info up tomorrow but it's getting late.
I'll try and cover the
-14 bolt lug modification
-Cock on Open conversion
-bolt handle straightening
-firing pin lightening
-new spring

and anything else I can think of. I know a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll get that all taken care of tomorrow.

Stand by...........
 
#35 · (Edited)
Bolt Mods....

Alright here goes. First off, These modifications were all done under the supervision of a highly quilified gunsmith of 50 years. These are a little above the hobbists abilities, so take note that this is more of an explination of what it takes to modifiy these bolts.

First up is just a couple different bolt handle configurations. I have bent quite a few of these straight, but there is also the original configuration on the bottom, which some people prefer.


Next up is the cock on open conversion cocking piece. I know that Dayton trister makes these, and I have found another person that sells them, but not sure on the manufacturer. Ether way they both work great. This picture just shows the difference between the new cock on open (top) and the cock on close (bottom). Once again some people like the cock on close, but many prefer to do the conversion.


Sometimes when the new cocking pieces are added the firing pin protrusion is not correct and needs to be fixed. The way I was tought by Corky was to make a little larger cut in the cocking surface of the bolt. This is the way he does them if they even need tinkering. The top bolt has been modified, whereas the bottom bolt did not need any modification and the new cocking piece worked fine. You can see the "deeper" cut in the bolt on the top vs. the original contour bolt on the bottom.


Another thing which may be done, which sometimes needs to be done to allow for proper and safe use of the saftey function is to very lightly buff, or polish the bottom of the cocking piece where the sear engages. Depending on the problem sometimes the bottom and the front need to be modified.


Next up is the front of the bolt. Just a few pointers with the difference between the 14 and 17 bolts. You can see on this photo the two bolts, the bottom is the M1917 and the top is the Pattern 1914. You can see the difference in the front of the extractors. The 14 has a triagular shapped extractor claw, and the 17 on bottom has the flat claw. Both work equally well, but the 14 bolt needs an extra cut in the rear of the barrel to allow for the triangle to set back in the barrel. The original 14's had a flat back to the barrel, whereas the 17's had a cone. To allow the 14 bolt to fit in a coned barrel, you need to contour the left lug to the 17 contour. The pen is pointing the modified lug on the 14 bolt. Last but not least the 17 bolt is originally for the .30-06, so it has the standard bolt face. The 14 bolt had the .303 brit case, which works perfect with magnum cases.


The Firing pin. Shown in the following photo is two pins, the top a modified 14 pin, and the bottom the original 17 pin. With these conversions, we usually lighten the firing pin a little. This is done by extending the flats on both sides of the pin. You can see on the bottom original the flats end about half way down. The top bolt has been modified to extend the flats closer to the front of the pin. This allows for a little quicker lock time with a slightly lighter pin. That along with a new Timney, or Dayton Trister Firing pin Spring, increases lock time for these old war horses!


One last thing. The bolt shroud, The rear of the shroud is usally cut down to allow for dissasembly of the bolt, along with a little bit of lightening. You can see in the photo the top one has been cut down, and the bottom is in it's original length. With the newer stronger firing pin, this allows for easier dissasembly.


Anyways.. Hope you learned something and be sure to know what you are doing if you attempt any of these modifications.
 
#36 ·
Spitfire_er was wondering what were your plans for the 1917 stock that had the drop for the unconverted floor plate. Reason I'm asking is that I have a winchester bbld action in 30-06 but no sporter stock. The bbl has been cut down to 21" short and sweet for hunting. This is how I bought it years ago. Would like to send out the bbld action and get it drilled and tapped so's I can use a scope. The old peepers aren't what they used to be. Thanks, Frank
 
#37 ·
I have never had a stock with the drop belly. I see a couple other guys that posted here have one.

As for the action you can PM me if you have any questions.

P.S. I'm always in the market for one if you want to sell or trade too.
 
#38 ·
Sorry for the confusion, got another poster's pics mixed up with yours. Bought the bbld action some years back. Someone spray painted with black enamel and it looked truely awful. I stripped the paint off and right now just finished polishing it. I have a '17 stock that has been cut down and will use it for cast bullet shooting. Frank
 
#39 ·
Very interesting thread, and I'd like to learn more about "Corky" and his rifles!

Not to depreciate your work, but there is something that always jumps out at me on a lot a sporterizations and reblue jobs etc. and that is rounded corners and wandering profiles and edges. The rotary polishing buff is a great thing, but personally I would rather see a semi-matte finish with clean, sharp profiles that look to my eye, both "factory" and "quality", than the high polish with rounded edges, and worst of all, wandering edges.

There really aren't many places on a receiver where there is room for a rotary buff to work without doing damage. It's slow work, but emery cloth backed by a piece of cold-rolled flatbar or a file is the only way I know of to retain the original profiles.

Just my two cents.
 
#40 ·
Very interesting thread, and I'd like to learn more about "Corky" and his rifles!

Not to depreciate your work, but there is something that always jumps out at me on a lot a sporterizations and reblue jobs etc. and that is rounded corners and wandering profiles and edges. The rotary polishing buff is a great thing, but personally I would rather see a semi-matte finish with clean, sharp profiles that look to my eye, both "factory" and "quality", than the high polish with rounded edges, and worst of all, wandering edges.

There really aren't many places on a receiver where there is room for a rotary buff to work without doing damage. It's slow work, but emery cloth backed by a piece of cold-rolled flatbar or a file is the only way I know of to retain the original profiles.

Just my two cents.
Just let me know and I can tell you all you want to know about Corky.

As for my work, I only buffed the front of the rear bridge so I wouldn't cut myself on the sharp corner. Everything else has been done with emery cloth, and it was semi-sportered before I started. It has yet to be blued and the guy that does my bluing is one of the best around and does an unbelievable job and if you want sharp edges, you'll get them. I have yet to finsh the bolt handle also.

Here's a photo of one of the bolts I did a while ago. I did a batch of about 10 of them a bit ago. This is a 14 bolt.



On top of that I find sharp edges on a hunting rifle to be impractical, this is usually where bluing tends to wear the most and where dings happen more often.

Sorry just confused about your comment a little.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I would agree there are a plethera of them out there. I'm sure you know that these make great "Custom" platforms, and are in my opinion one of the best Military surplus actions to build on. The one thing I like about them is that they are control round feed. I got rid of all my push feed guns after using CRF guns for a while. Also the enfield is unique in that the bolt lugs are not 90 degrees, They have a ~2 degree cant which allows for better extraction of tight cases. I have never had a stuck case in one of these rifles. This is a feature that a couple of the custom actions builders employ. (can't think of their names off hand)

Anyways, I would'nt usually call one my rifles a sporter... and I guess it could be, but for the amount of work that is required, they are customs to me. They tend to shoot as well, or better than many "customs" out there.

Three shot Barnes 168 TSX Match (only had three bullets to test)


5 shot group. Shot on hardy backer so the group stayed on the paper. 168 Gr Sierra Match. Norma brass, WLRM, 72.5gr 4831SC. (same load as above)


In following tests, the Barnes will hold under 1/2" 5 shots, which in my opinion is pretty good for a magnum with a #4 contour barrel.

anyways, here is the almost done rifle. I still need to have it blued this winter, polished barrel, and put another 56 layers of oil on the stock. :thumbsup: Total weight ended up being a pound heavier than I thought, which I can live with. I carried it hunting last weekend and it works well for me. Final weight is 11 lbs on the nuts. I also don't mind an extra pound on a magnum rifle because it makes it a little more pleasant to shoot. That along with the 1" decelorator pad. The ebony scales and additional expoxy added an extra 1/2 lb. These were an after thought so I came in pretty close to my original 10 lb goal. If I really wanted I could get a different maple stock and loose that pound, but then it wouldn't look as cool!
 
#44 ·
Forming 308 Norma Brass

Here is a quick how to on turning .338 WM brass into .308 Norma.


Step #1-Virgin .338 WM brass.
Step #2-Necking down to .308 diameter.
Step #3-Fire Formed brass. Using regular load.
Step #4-Finished product. (this is actually a Norma case, notice the longer neck)

That is the only down side to using .338 brass is the shorter neck. Other than that it works great.
 
#45 ·
this thread is unbelievable i have been building a lot of custom mausers and just recently acquired a P-14 enfield and there is little to no resources on the internet about customizing it, There is tons of aftermarket possibility for Mausers but the enfields are a dying breed. I am rechambering mine to a 404 Jeffery i been cropping the action and what not i have been really nervous with how to go about it and i still have a lot of questions but i will keep watching the threads and see what pops up. Thanks For posting such great knowledge
 
#46 ·
That's good to hear and thanks. If you have any questions I can do my best to help you out with a build. You can ether post questions and photos here or pm me. I'm not the only guy here with knowlegde on these things.
 
#47 ·
Spitfire-
I to just purchased a pre-butchered remington 1917. The ears have been milled flat. Previous owner put a butt ugly side mount scope. Does anyone know of commercial two piece scope mounts that would fit. The Remington model 30 is a 1917 with the ears cut off. Does anyone know where I can get some over the counter scope bases for my rifle?
philinchaos
 
#49 ·
Spitfire-
I to just purchased a pre-butchered remington 1917. The ears have been milled flat. Previous owner put a butt ugly side mount scope. Does anyone know of commercial two piece scope mounts that would fit. The Remington model 30 is a 1917 with the ears cut off. Does anyone know where I can get some over the counter scope bases for my rifle?
philinchaos
There are a few you could use, but has it been drilled and tapped for two holes in the back? if not it will need to be of course, and you might be able to get away with some Weaver 61's in the rear, and ether a 46 or an 11 in the front. Not sure with that combo though, the 61's might end up being too high, and you could modify them to fit, but without doing a little more research I don't have much more for you at the moment. I know they use to make a one piece, but that doesn't sound like its what you want, and I don't prefer them ether.

Another option would be to recountour the rear to the front shape, or to a lower profile, which would allow for several leoupold/weaver options.
 
#48 ·
i have a 1917 based remington 26" hart heavy barreled gun in 300win mag that i use for tactical matches,the only drawback is it is a single feed with the blockoff plate and no mag provision. when i got it , it had the palma sights on it, i pulled the mounts and used an EGW remington long action 1 piece mount, i had to contour it to fir the rounded off area where the rear ears were and drill 1 hole, as the others lined up
 
#50 ·
Seems like I missed this thread while it was ongoing. My first centerfire was a 1917 sporter with a blind magazine and several extra pounds of wood. I've always liked Enfield sporters. The couple I have shoot very well with the issue barrels and cast bullets. Seeing your Remington M/30 and Brithunters BSA conversion reminds me of what Enfields can be. I have a very nice Remington M/30S. The "Special" had the later stock design, much like the BSA shown, and handles like a dream in the field or on the bench. Though I've tried, I can't get through deer season without taking these 2 gals out, alternating from one to the other. All the other stuff I've built or bought hardly gets field use unless the weather is bad. Thanks for all the pics and the write up. It reminds me that there is a tired old 1917 sporter that needs updating and a really nice 1917 Winchester barreled action in the shop that needs to be stocked. I like the coloring of the laminated stock you showed that Corky had done. Maybe I'll look along those lines for the Winchester. As much as I like them, I don't really need 4 of basically the same rifle... Maybe the tired old sporter should be .256 Newton or 257 Roberts and stocked like the 30S... Cabin fever's killing me and I need to work on something besides frozen up broken farm equipment. Thanks for sharing!
 
#51 ·
Thanks,

I am currently doing another Winchester 17 that is going to be a 6.5-280 RCBS (30 degree Imp) with a Shilen SS 1-8" twist so I can shoot the heavier bullets long range. I'll have to post a few photos, but it's basically the same thing as the Norma I built, but the stock will be different. They is a lot of work to make them look nice, but you end up with a nice rifle in the end. Although I really like the 17 and 14's I might start using Savage 110 actions to build off of for ease and speed of the build.
 
#52 ·
New rifle in 6.5-280 30 degree shoulder

Got another one put together. Sorry I didn't take any photos of the work I did, but I can explain a little. This is a M1917 action.
-Shilen #5 1-8" twist SS Match grade barrel.
-Have yet to put it on, but it will sport a Timney trigger.
-Firing pin has been lightened.
-New spring and Cock on Open installed.
-Filled the rear oval with a steel bar stock ground to fit the hole near perfect then silver soldered it in place then leveled it off to match contour.
-I had to shorten the firing pin because the protrusion was way too much. I cut it down and buffed it round until it was round again.
-Cleaned up the bolt handle by straightening again like usual.
-Drilled and tapped for #46 weaver bases front and rear.
-Safety has been shaved down.
-Rear ears were removed when I got it, just cleaned it up to match front ring.
-Fajen copy stock made out of cottonwood dyed black
-Glass bedded entire action
-Burl maple butt stock pad, and forearm tip.

Anyways, It still needs bluing and final polishing on the barrel and bolt parts, but other than that It's done. I fired one round down the barrel to form a case from a standard .280 Rem case. Here's a few photos of the rifle, and a pic of some cases. Cases from left to right are .270 win, 6.5-06 standard, and 6.5-280 RCBS 30 degree shoulder.


 
#53 ·
Very nice, that 6.5-280 RCBS must be very close in case capacity and length to my 60's vintage .264 WinMag conversion, and fit in the magazine much better. I used Dayton-Traister speedlock conversion and trigger, seem very satisfactory.

Can you describe how the firing pin is lightened, that would improve locktime and would I think be an improvement? Where do you remove weight without adversely affecting stiffness?

Thanks
Steve
 
#54 ·
You can make it dang near match the .264 Mag, but you'll be pushing the limits of the cartridge.

As for the firing pin, I think I have a photo on here a while back showing it, but I'll revisit it a little.



This picture shows what is done. Basically you extend the flats of the pin forward. It doesn't take off a ton of weight, but every little bit helps. A stiff speedlock spring helps quite a bit too. If you really want tot take the weight down, and you have access to a milling machine, you can mill out some groves on the flats down into the pin, leaving ridges on each side. An alternative to this would be to drill a series of small holes down the pin. I might do this with my current rifle, but I'm going to see how it shoots first. When doing all this stuff, it is better to leave too much than leave not enough. I don't know the % increase in speed, but with the new spring, and the weight loss I would put it in the 16-18% increase range. Timney claims theirs will do 15% better over the original. So if you take your pin down like I did, you might gain another 2-5% decrease in time.

You have already done this, but one big thing to keep in mind is that when you change your cocking piece over from cock on close, to cock on open, you are loosing over 1/2 of the pin travel too. A standard issue set-up will have about 0.715" of pin travel. With a new cock on open cocking piece, you shorten the pin travel down to 0.271"! (on the last rifle pictured anyways) that is a 62% decrease in pin travel, and in theory the lock time should increase by at least half, and maybe up to that 62%. That along with the 16-18% from the spring and pin, you are sitting around or up to a 80% increase over standard issue. Keeping in mind that the original lock time is slooooooowwwww! My numbers may not be 100% correct, but I would say they are close. Ether way, doing the things listed above will increase your lock time by a lot!

Hope this helps.
 
#55 · (Edited)
Spitfire
Thanks very much. As in the theory that even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, I carried my freshly barreled Winchester 1917 action into a local gunshop in Santa Monica about 1960, already a fairly good hobbiest machinist but quite ignorant of Gun topics, and asked what could be done with the military trigger. In less than 5 seconds he had looked at it, reached under the counter and pulled out a plastic bag labeled $14, and said "here". It contained the Dayton-Traister "Speedlock" kit cocking piece, spring, and trigger assembly, and instruction how to deepen the cocking ramp in the bolt. Followed directions and it works beautifully. Talked to the man at Dayton-Traister a few weeks ago, asked if their new stuff was any better, he said no, the trigger housing is cast instead of laminated, works the same. Not a critique, I'm sure the Timney trigger is at least as good.

So I will machine the long grooves in the pin the next time I have it out of the safe, have proper machines now. Thanks again for your answer.
BTW after I replaced a scope that had a loose objective lens mounting, it put the first three shots it had fired in the last ten years into touching holes at 100yds, it probably was the first .264 Ackley's shop did in 1958, my local gunsmith sent it there, I didn't know who Ackley was either. Later I went into a shop in Pasadena about getting the whole thing blued and it turned out to be Harry Sanford's shop, I didn't know who he was either, did a beautiful job. I machined a one-piece Pickatinny rail for it this year, mostly because i have one on the Remington Custom Shop 40XB 22-250 that has a Nightforce scope and mounts on it, now scopes are more or less interchangable, also with my sons Savage Model 12 .308.

Steve
 
#57 ·
Hey Steve, I wish you could still get that set up for $14, that would be nice. I forgot to mention the cocking cam cut. That is the tricky part about the kit as you know. I have had to make that cut on most of the conversions I have done, but the last rifle I did up did not need this cut. Sometimes the pin needs to be shortened too at the point.

Sounds like you have some history behind that rifle, kinda neat. I have been tempted to try a dayton trigger, but have yet to. I have not purchased a trigger for the new rifle so who knows, maybe i'll get one. One of those mounts you fashion up would be cool. I would like to see a photo of that mount if you have one handy.

Oh, and as far as that cut on the pin. I was just looking at it. Sounds like you're pretty handy, but if I were making that cut, I would go about 0.1" wide and 0.04-0.05" deep on each side keeping it about an inch inside each end. This of course after you mill the pin flat. I would also make sure to leave a little material behind the shoulder of the pin so it's still round and not mill it completely flat all the way to that shoulder. I would also be interested in knowing how much weight you loose by doing this. I have never actually weighed one before and after.

Subvet,

You are right on the conversions. The first rifle I did on this thread was done in a magnum with a pattern 14 bolt. As for the cracking recievers, some of them do tend to crack, but if you make a relief cut forward of the shoulder, you should be good and not crack an action. I have not read up on rifles cracking during refurb, but I wouldn't doubt it. I have heard that to make the barrels time properly, they would just keep tightening them till they timed. Which would make sense in a mass production environment.
 
#58 ·
Thanks for the comments Spitfire, I have pictures in this computer, I'll try to figure how to send them, but it's late now. I never heard of any Winchesters cracking, they are different steel. I have worked a lot with 4130 and 4340 aircraft steel and this is very similar, at the ears you can hacksaw, file, weld (on the bolt handle). Welding useing thin strips of 4130 as filler, it is impossible to notice color change after polishing. paid $5 extra to get the Win action. Didn't hunt after 1962, so rifle sat unloved in closet mostly for long time, till friend got me moving 4-5 years ago. Mine now is hard to tell from Model 30 Rem. More later.
 
#59 ·
Finally! I sent my action off about a month ago to get blued. Well, I got it back about a week, and the metal looks great.



The metal turned out great, I'm not happy with the stock. It originally started out as a try it and see, and now I want it to look nice, so I'll spend some time on it, reshape it a little and hopefully turn it into something great.
 
#61 ·
I know this thread is really old, but it's kinda neat to look back on basically my first couple years into building rifles. I look back at some of these photos and realize how horrible some of that stock work was and not the best machining work. That being said, I still have a lot of great information in this thread that is sound as far as some of the modifications that can be done to these actions to make them more pleasurable to use and shoot.

For you guys that like photos. Here are a few more recent rifles that I have built. The Walnut stocked rifle is a 6br and I did several youtube videos on it through Patreon. The maple stocked rifle I carved from hand and there is a time laps video of that on youtube as well. It was my first stock doing by hand with mainly hand tools. I've come a long ways.

YouTube channel is
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcPJKV6vkcadDE2PJQq9-wg
 
#62 ·
Just found this thread...WOW has inspired me to complete my work on my M-17 an old BSA rifle that grampa bought post WW1, gave to my dad and I inherited it in '85. Cerakoted, port opened and modified to 300 Winchester Magnum, Bob Jury custom barrel, firing pin hole re-centered, Timney trigger, new follower and spring and the mag box lengthened, muzzle brake, and MPI glass stock with a blind floorplate. A bit more polishing and fine tuning to be done but its getting there. Scope mounting....its definitely not a Remington base machining but thinking Winchester model 70??? Anyways the base holes are in need of modification to 8-40 as 2 of them are stripped . Wood Tool Air gun Table Trigger

Wood Tool Air gun Table Trigger
 
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