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Thread: Greek Mannlicher-Schonauer worth?

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    Default Greek Mannlicher-Schonauer worth?

    What would a Greek Mannlicher-Schonauer military rifle be worth in good condition, carbine or full length rifle?

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    DG13

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    In my experience, the Mannlicher turnbolts listed are about 1/3 of real value if the rifle is knowledgeably marketed. The last Mannlicher Schoenauer in top condition I saw sold, an early Greek long rifle, went for $4,200.

    The Romanian turnbolts (M1892/93) are listed at about 25% of what the few available have sold for...again when sold by an informed collector.
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 12-02-2007 at 10:13 AM.

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    I guess I didn't do too bad with my Greek 03 post-WW1 refurb then at $395 Aus (plus $200 for bayonet)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulch View Post
    I guess I didn't do too bad with my Greek 03 post-WW1 refurb then at $395 Aus (plus $200 for bayonet)
    I hate you! I hate you! :
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

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    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Can I get a little hatin' too?
    $300 US, all matching.
    -----krinko
    Last edited by krinko; 06-05-2008 at 06:51 PM.

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    I got a long rifle in good shape for $100.00 but the stock has been cut, and missing handguard. The barrel bands came with it tho. Picked up a carbine with a poor bore and bubba'd for $75.00 several years ago. I keep watching the gunshows and pawn shops for some stocks.
    Last edited by Capt Zorro; 12-02-2007 at 10:17 PM.
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    I both a Greek MS M 1903/14 Rifle a month ago for 430€ not in good condition and deaktivated.
    But here in Germany they are very rare.

    Regards George
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wall View Post
    In my experience, the Mannlicher turnbolts listed are about 1/3 of real value if the rifle is knowledgeably marketed. The last Mannlicher Schoenauer in top condition I saw sold, an early Greek long rifle, went for $4,200.

    The Romanian turnbolts (M1892/93) are listed at about 25% of what the few available have sold for...again when sold by an informed collector.
    Regards,
    John
    I don't know what "knowledgeably marketed" means exactly, but if it means knowing where to locate a lunatic with more money than brains, then I get the drift of it.

    While the prices shown on that website might be a $100 low, they seem in my opinion to be generally in the ball park for all the common folk.

    M

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    The cheapest decent one I have seen was $950. I passed not because of the price, but because of the condition. Had it been less worn out than it was, $1K wouldn't have stopped me. Um... what does this make me - a lunatic with little brains and little money?
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The cheapest decent one I have seen was $950. I passed not because of the price, but because of the condition. Had it been less worn out than it was, $1K wouldn't have stopped me. Um... what does this make me - a lunatic with little brains and little money?
    Will all the people here on this forum who have EVER spent $4,200 on ANY bolt-action military rifle please speak up?

    M

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    Default Mannlicher Pricing

    Quote Originally Posted by MGMike View Post
    Will all the people here on this forum who have EVER spent $4,200 on ANY bolt-action military rifle please speak up?

    M
    That is my thought too! If 250,000 GI M1903s were made, and only a few thousand commercials, then a commercial M1903 must be worth $5000-$10,000, and we know that is not true. The same reasoning applied to lesser production commercial models drives the pricing off the chart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMike View Post
    Will all the people here on this forum who have EVER spent $4,200 on ANY bolt-action military rifle please speak up?

    M
    Guilty as charged MGMike! I have spent more than $4200 on several rifles in my collection, but would hardly pay that much for a Mannlicher Schoenauer. I would place the Model 1903 and 1903/14 in the $500 to $1500 range price wise with all of the usual considerations.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
    Last edited by JPS; 12-08-2007 at 02:12 PM.

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    Guilty too your honour - Lithgow Experimental "Rifle, Shortened and Lightened, Intermediate". $5000 Australian, plus another $600 for the bayonet.

    Never seen a Greek 1903 over $500 here, including some excellent ones. Only ever seen 6, and one of them is now mine :D

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    I ain't telling what I paid, I will just let you guess how much a 33.M would be... if you know what a 33.M is, of course.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    On reflection my choice of the terms "lunatic" and "brains" was too harsh, though I did not intend them literally to mean insane or stupid; I should better have used the terms "fanatic" and "judgment".

    In my opinion those who spend $4,200 or more on a bolt action military rifle are either very focused collectors for whom money is no object to own a unique or truly rare item, or are impatient beginners neck-deep in disposable income. Last weekend I saw a Japanese Garand that changed hands for $35,000, so it DOES happen--but to me it does not make much sense.

    I don't think it is necesssary to spend that kind of money to gather a nice representative collection. One just has to be patient and assiduous. My own collection of long guns now numbers nearly 300, the preponderance being semi-auto and bolt-action military rifles; not much is "mint" but very little is reworked "junk". Until just a few years ago the most I ever spent was $2,200, for a .276 Pedersen which IS, like Vulch's Lithgow experimental, a genuinely rare gun; most of the others were, at one point or another, imported in quantity, and were purchased in the $100-500 range. Greek Mannlichers are NOT "rare"; I have seven or eight, none of which cost more than $250 (No, they are not for sale, so please don't bombard me with PMs).

    I have a rule: I never spend more to buy a gun than I could take it to a gun show and sell it for a week later. When you start spending $4,200 for a nice example of a commonly-owned military rifle, the circle of equally avid financial astronauts who will take it off your hands at that price is very small indeed. Too risky for me.

    Just my 2 cents after 50 years of accumulating.

    M

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMike View Post
    ...No, they are not for sale, so please don't bombard me with PMs...
    I think you would sell them if someone bombarded you with enough $$$. After all, not many are patient enough to wait for 50 years...
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I think you would sell them if someone bombarded you with enough $$$. After all, not many are patient enough to wait for 50 years...
    Nick, I don't think so; I'd rather have the guns. In any event, I bought the most recent of those Greek Mannlichers at an estate sale in 1995, not that long ago, in excellent condition save a mismatched bolt for $250. As I've said, they may be infrequently encountered but they are not "rare".

    "Rare", in my view, is the most overvalued and overused word in collecting vocabulary, second only to "mint", or its bastard cousin "minty". The notion that an item is valuable merely because it is scarce is a concept promoted primarily by sellers searching for some way to inflate the value of their merchandise.

    M

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMike View Post
    ..."Rare", in my view, is the most overvalued and overused word in collecting vocabulary, second only to "mint", or its bastard cousin "minty". The notion that an item is valuable merely because it is scarce is a concept promoted primarily by sellers searching for some way to inflate the value of their merchandise.
    This might be true; however, we don't buy the guns because of their intrinsic value. We buy them because of their perceived value, which is built pretty much the way you describe it. Thus, no matter how logical/illogical the perceived value is, it is real and is reflected in the "market price" discussed above. You got lucky, and you are an exception - so are the prices you quote.

    You implicitly confirm this with your statement "I'd rather have the guns". If the prices you quote were a true measure of their value - why not?
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    As Amos & Andy would say some of you guy's must be "one of dem Advantaged Collectors"
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    Capt. Zorro

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    for a Greek the mannlicher Schoenauer is the most rear thing to find in Europe and if is thear a way to ship it to Greece.......just name the price

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    Default Greek MS worth???

    Just to stir the pot, let me add that value is the meeting point at which someone is willing to sell and another is willing to buy, which is what drives auctioned items occasionally through the roof and also what drives people like me to spend a small fortune in time looking for bargains (which if you put any value on personal time often really aren’t that much of a bargain). I’ve got more than a few friends that think I’m a lunatic with more money than brains for paying more than scrap value for most of my late 19th/early 20th century “junker” rifles when I could have a rack of the latest whiz-bang short magnums for a lot less.

    I’m with Nick on this one. I wouldn’t shy away from a VG matching original Greek Mannlicher-Schonauer based on a price pushing four figures. If I found one at a pawn shop for $250 I’d be even happier. The question is just how much a given individual wants one and how much time do they have to spend looking for it. At the moment one isn’t on my short list of must haves and I’m not beating the bushes for one. On the other hand there are rifles on that list that I’m sure I’d be willing to pay what many here would consider absurd prices for if the condition was right (like a VG+ Romanian Peabody carbine).

    While I occasionally scratch my head over what prices some people are willing to pay, I am slow to insult their intelligence for doing so. Casting stones at such folks might just land a rock a little too close to home.
    Rich in West Virginia, savoring life one cartridge at a time.

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    It all comes down to; "MONEY IS RELATIVE, I JUST DON'T HAVE ANY RELATIVES WITH MONEY". If you're knockin' down $500 grand a year a couple thousand is front pocket money for you. If you're a working man with a family and mortgage making less than $50K that's alot of scratch for a rifle to hang on the wall.
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    Default Greek MS worth???

    Just about everyone has to set limits to their collecting based on their individual realities. However one's individual circumstances has no bearing on the market value of a collectable, just on one's ability to purchase a fairly priced item. I'm a great admirer of Brit double rifles of the 19th Century, but realize that collecting them in any number is just plain out of my financial league....period end of story. However no matter how much or how little I pay for an item, if I buy it I intend to shoot it....nothing is purchased just to hang on the wall.
    Rich in West Virginia, savoring life one cartridge at a time.

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    I paid $50usd for mine, a 1903/14 Breda rifle in 2001 Does anyone actually shoot theirs? Took me a long time to find the ammo locally. I got two boxes for $20, RWS. The guy was shooting it in a 6.5x55 chambered gun! Maybe I should sell my gun. It's got a dark bore and some fairly minor rust/wear on the outside.

    A local shop had a butchered one at $70 this year.

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    I found a stock for mine on the trader, good shape for $100.00. Now all I need is a handguard...
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    The really nasty part of this question is when the Greek 1903 has been sporterized to one degree or another and is being sold as a M1903 commercial, even though it may still have the GI sights and bolt! It is not uncommon today to see such reworks with asking prices as high as $2500.00. I spend a lot of time policing the web for critters such as that, Most people will describe them as a M1905 or M1914 or M1930 6.5x54mm, and insist that their product is a perfect commercial model, when it has much more in common with a sporterized M98 Mauser or M1903 Springfield. I've looked at a number of these with an eye to reconfiguring them to original Greek milspec, and I still don;t have one.

    LLS
    Mannlicher Collector (commercial)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonclip View Post
    I paid $50usd for mine, a 1903/14 Breda rifle in 2001 Does anyone actually shoot theirs? Took me a long time to find the ammo locally. I got two boxes for $20, RWS. The guy was shooting it in a 6.5x55 chambered gun! Maybe I should sell my gun. It's got a dark bore and some fairly minor rust/wear on the outside.

    A local shop had a butchered one at $70 this year.
    Hey, Moonclip, 6.5x54mm is my primary deer cartridge here in Texas. Took three of our little deer with it this past year, with commercial model Mannlichers, of course. I handload all my ammo using Norma and RWS brass, bullets by Hornaday and RWS.

    LLS

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGMike View Post
    Will all the people here on this forum who have EVER spent $4,200 on ANY bolt-action military rifle please speak up?

    M
    Along with JPS I too have spent more then $4,200 on a bolt-action military rifle. However, it was not on any model of Mannlicher.
    Looking for a BYF luger rear toggle pin number 84.

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    I got this one dirt cheap, ammo is hard to come by, better to roll your own.This one is a bit unique as it is a 1927 Breda 03/14 but in an 03 stock.Love to see more pictures of Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles.This one sure is a crowd pleaser at the range, seems I get more questions/comments about it than any other milsurp I take out.It's a great shooter as well, easily keeping up with my Swede 96.
    Tom

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    Here are a few assorted older photos I have of some of my Greek M-S's. I have a total of nine including three carbines. I have had most of these since the early 90s.

    Enjoy!

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M1903 Greek M-S & M1903-14 M-S Full View R.JPG   T - B - 1903-14 - 1903 - 1903 Car - 1903 Car R.JPG   Model1903Greek Carbines R.jpg  

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    I have been tracking the value of Mannlicher Schoenauer commercial models for over ten years (more like 30 years), and the current value of a commercial is between 600 and 1500 dollars, depending upon condition. A M1903 military is a new case, because they were used so hard and so long, yet many have been sporterized, just like M98 Mausers, and people seem to want the same dollars for a sporterized M1903 GI as for a true M1903 sporter, and that does not compute!!!!. There were a quarter million Greek military models, and only a few thousand commercials. Now, a typical Mauser sporter is only worth 300-800 dollars, why should a Mannlicher be worth any more? Especially, since 90% of the sporterized Mannlichers appear to be "bubba specials". Now, if you really have a 100% original Greek Military M1903 (1905, 1914, 1930) that is something else, but from the get go I will challenge the originality of your rifle, since they have been rebuilt and faked for over fifty years. Caveat Emptor rules this item 100%

    LLS

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    Talking 1903 carbine

    Well I guess I'll chime in. I recently bought a 1903 carbine M/M & arsnally reblued for $800. I've been collecting for 15 years and it was the 2nd I'd seen for sale. I just got tired of waiting for the perfect one and it just about completes my WWI Greek collection. I still need a 1903/14.
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    All matching 03/14 carbine, excellent condition for around $600:







    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    I think the whole point of this discussion devolves back into that most fun aspect of gun collecting- patience versus opportunity versus spending money.

    Mannlicher-Schonauers aren't impossible to find, and they're not as reknowned a rifle as a bringback K98 or the like (as well as having unusual ammunition), and consequently their price covers an inordinately wide bell-curve, with examples found both on the low end at estate auctions and pawnshops by unknowledgeable sellers, and also on the very high end marketed by knowledeable sellers to knowledgeable and impatient buyers.

    Personally, I look with shock and horror at a hypothetica pricetag on ANYTHING recreational over a thousand dollars, but likewise I paid twice that a year or two ago when I had a chance to snap up a Johnson rifle. It's my personal mindset that I'd rather conserve my funds and buy strictly based on patiently waiting for luck and a bargain to bring what may than intentionally hunt for and then pay for a specific piece.

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    tplan makes a very good point about pricing, sellers, and buyers. You need to go to a really big gun show, like the Wanemachers show in Tulsa, OK, to see the total picture. I love to go there, but I leave my wallet and my credit cards behind. The awful truth is that you can also be driven to make an excessive purchase just because that rarity is sitting right there on the table! I sold a rifle this past February that way, and I was absolutely flabbergasted when the buyer came up with the money! It is all caveat emptor, and a lot of dedicated searching for a perfect buy.

    LLS

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    Quote Originally Posted by llsierra View Post
    ....Wanemachers show in Tulsa... I love to go there, but I leave my wallet and my credit cards behind...
    That's why I stopped going there. For the traveling & accommodation expense alone I could buy a nice rifle on-line. I wouldn't even discuss the prices there!
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    By chance does anyone know of a source for stocks for these 03/14's or a stock that can be altered to fit the Bbl'd action ?? Thanks in advance

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    Default Greek Mannlicher Stock

    Hi, i was searching for a good stock for my mannlicher for years. Luckily a Canadian friend find me a rifle in VG and i bought it strip it and keep the stock i need. It was the only sourch i can find.

    Does anyone collect Greek mannlicher bayonets ?

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    Default Bringing the discussion back to the front...

    I just bought this M1903 Greek Mannlicher Schoenauer, chambered in 6.54 rimmed. I bought it from the forum member DSArms.com. This one was made by Styer in 1907; three digit serial number; receiver and stock matches; two Greek characters and the number. Missing cleaning rod and the stacking piece. Leather sling attached.

    I ran a bore snake through the bore twice; strong bore, dark but well defined lands and grooves. Initials carved on stock. Despite the rough looks, the action is buttery smooth; on this one cycling the bolt feels like it is riding on roller bearings...no, check that, it is even smoother then that! I'll leave what I paid for it unknown for now, but it didn't pay lots of money for it... So, how did I do?

    I am reasonably certain this rifle is all original; no import marks,

    I will order some ammo and post a range report...











    Last edited by cwo4uscgret; 09-18-2009 at 10:12 PM.

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    Default Mannlicher Schoenauer

    The War Relics Shop here in Milford, Delaware currently has one for sale for $525.00.

    22955 Argos Corner Rd
    Milford, DE 19963-4762
    (302) 422-5487

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonclip View Post
    I paid $50usd for mine, a 1903/14 Breda rifle in 2001 Does anyone actually shoot theirs? Took me a long time to find the ammo locally. I got two boxes for $20, RWS. The guy was shooting it in a 6.5x55 chambered gun! Maybe I should sell my gun. It's got a dark bore and some fairly minor rust/wear on the outside.

    A local shop had a butchered one at $70 this year.
    Where was that and do they still have it? Even butchered, I'll buy at that price - where do i send the (signed) copy of my C&R tag and the money order?
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  43. #43

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    I have to come to Mr. Wall's defence here as I have been offered a seemingly ridiculous amount for my Greek long rifle in original trim which has not seen any rearsenalling, and retains its sling and bayonet. Greek collectors will jump through hoops to repatriate these guns and condition only drives prices higher. I personally have a weakness for Ross rifles and have made many American sellers quite happy and shocked over the years with what I've been willing to pay. That being said good luck trying to sell your 1903 at your local gun show for anywhere near the price mentioned by Mr. Wall.
    The correct abbreviation for reproduction is REPRO NOT REPO!

    It's a TURRET Press NOT a TURRENT Press!

    Disrespect is not a verb!

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    966

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwo4uscgret View Post
    I just bought this M1903 Greek Mannlicher Schoenauer, chambered in 6.54 rimmed. I bought it from the forum member DSArms.com. This one was made by Styer in 1907; three digit serial number; receiver and stock matches; two Greek characters and the number. Missing cleaning rod and the stacking piece. Leather sling attached.

    I ran a bore snake through the bore twice; strong bore, dark but well defined lands and grooves. Initials carved on stock. Despite the rough looks, the action is buttery smooth; on this one cycling the bolt feels like it is riding on roller bearings...no, check that, it is even smoother then that! I'll leave what I paid for it unknown for now, but it didn't pay lots of money for it... So, how did I do?

    I am reasonably certain this rifle is all original; no import marks,

    I will order some ammo and post a range report...











    I have a bolt head with that same asterisk / sun looking stamp, do you have a close-up photo? Does anybody know if this is typical of these rifles? The bolt head I have is on an 1890 Loewe Gew 88/S rifle, and I have been attempting to identify this stamp for a while now.


  45. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    966

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    This is my bolt head, is this the same as the Mannlicher Schoenauer bolt head?

    lol, think this pic is big enough or what?

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