Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    York County, PA
    Posts
    1,094

    HK screws the consumer again! Get your GSG-5 while you still can!

    October 12, 2009

    Re: Heckler and Koch, Inc. vs. German Sport Guns GmbH, American Tactical Imports,
    Inc. Civil Action No. 1 : 09-cv-00039-WTL-JMS (S.D. Indiana)

    For immediate release,

    We are very pleased to report that the litigation filed by Heckler & Koch, Inc. against
    German Sport Guns GmbH and its U.S. distributor, American Tactical Imports, Inc.,
    together with all counterclaims, has been settled.

    The terms of the settlement are confidential to the parties and cannot be disclosed. A
    dismissal of the above-referenced litigation, and all of the party’s claims against each
    other, is expected to be filed in the near future.

    Attorneys for H&K will be issuing a statement. The attorneys for ATI have already
    issued a statement announcing the settlement.

    Production and importation of the original design GSG-5 ceased as of Oct, 8, 2009 with
    the signing of the agreement. The remaining inventory now in the USA can be sold by
    ATI, all distributors and dealers. ATI currently has GSG-5’s in stock.

    All sales of the GSG-5 by ATI must conclude by January 31, 2010. ATI will continue to
    service every firearm that it imports into the USA.

    Thank you for your support.

    Anthony DiChario
    President C.E.O.
    American Tactical Imports, Inc.
    I Swear On My Life, And My Love Of It, That I Will Never Live For The Sake Of Another Man, Nor Ask Another Man To Live For Mine. - John Galt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    806

    Default

    I'm glad I got mine! But I wonder about replacement parts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    So...does that mean CETME can now sue HK over design infringement? Sheesh.

    Keith

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    The Rockies
    Posts
    507

    Default

    What legal "leg" is HK standing on? Design patent? Utility patent?

    EDIT: Nevermind. Reading some about it now.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    644

    Default

    So what gives? Could they sue Scorpion Arms and stop PTR 91 production?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    York County, PA
    Posts
    1,094

    Default

    I think they're standing on the "we're bigger than you, and can afford better lawyers" leg. :
    I Swear On My Life, And My Love Of It, That I Will Never Live For The Sake Of Another Man, Nor Ask Another Man To Live For Mine. - John Galt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    The Rockies
    Posts
    507

    Default

    After reading some, I think the lawsuit is based on the violation of trade dress infringement. How it doesn't relate to PTR and other manufacturers who've flew past the HK radar, I don't know.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    377

    Default

    I'm not sure I understand. H&K sued German Sport Guns GmbH and American Tactical Imports, Inc. for copyright infringement and thats screwing over the consumer? Or am I reading something wrong?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,151

    Default

    I have been reading that release for two months and it just occurred to me that it reads more like they purchased out the GSG5 folks; suit. counter-suit, secret ending, press release. So when does the H&K version hit the market with the extra $200 tacked on for the use of the H&K logos?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,631

    Default

    MJL;
    Apparently it was supposed to be 2/1/2010.
    Alden

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    in a house
    Posts
    3,451

    Default

    When I saw those cargo containers of brand new 1911-A1s and TT-33s being destroyed by some Baltic country as part of a deal with H&K, I promised myself I would never buy another H&K product. Screw them.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    York County, PA
    Posts
    1,094

    Default

    The consumer gets screwed, because the HK MP-5 is a Spanish CETME rifle clone, made in 9mm Luger. German Sport Guns made a clone of the MP-5 in .22LR. The GSG-5 could be considered a CETME rifle made in .22LR. At approximately $500, the GSG-5 is as close as most consumers will ever get to owning an MP-5. I don't think HK is losing customers to GSG, if you have the money to buy an HK MP-5, you're probably not worried about saving money by shooting .22LR. HK is just a bunch of jerks, they're just pi$$ed they didn't think of a .22LR semi-auto version first, so they're throwing a temper tantrum, and throwing their weight around.
    I Swear On My Life, And My Love Of It, That I Will Never Live For The Sake Of Another Man, Nor Ask Another Man To Live For Mine. - John Galt

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    929

    Default

    Here are what is supposed to be coming from HK:
    http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/...and_hk_mp5.jpg
    http://www.onpointsupply.com/cart.ph...22lrs_for_sale

    And the pricing is around the same as GSG's. According tot he info I have read GSG only has to stop importing them into the US and ATI had to have all inventories sold by 01/31/10.

    Finestkind

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Regis Rex View Post
    When I saw those cargo containers of brand new 1911-A1s and TT-33s being destroyed by some Baltic country as part of a deal with H&K, I promised myself I would never buy another H&K product. Screw them.
    This is the first that I have heard of HK involvement in this atrocity against history. I would like to hear more about this.........

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    NJ USA
    Posts
    2,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Regis Rex View Post
    When I saw those cargo containers of brand new 1911-A1s and TT-33s being destroyed by some Baltic country as part of a deal with H&K, I promised myself I would never buy another H&K product. Screw them.
    WHy would a deal with HK require destroying 1911's?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Loganville, Ga
    Posts
    205

    Default

    The deal with PTR is they are using licensed equipment or equipment the bought from the Germans/H&K for the PTR line of rifles. IIRC, I may be wrong or mis-informed

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    in a house
    Posts
    3,451

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis View Post
    WHy would a deal with HK require destroying 1911's?
    Apparently to keep them off the market and cut into H&K's sales. There's a thread about it somewhere on this site. It will make you want to puke.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    536

    Default

    HK doesn't want anyone making a look-a-like of one of their designs. What is wrong with that? HK doesn't give a damn about some plastic POS rifle especially in .22


    Quote Originally Posted by MP517PRCT View Post
    The consumer gets screwed, because the HK MP-5 is a Spanish CETME rifle clone, made in 9mm Luger. German Sport Guns made a clone of the MP-5 in .22LR. The GSG-5 could be considered a CETME rifle made in .22LR. At approximately $500, the GSG-5 is as close as most consumers will ever get to owning an MP-5. I don't think HK is losing customers to GSG, if you have the money to buy an HK MP-5, you're probably not worried about saving money by shooting .22LR. HK is just a bunch of jerks, they're just pi$$ed they didn't think of a .22LR semi-auto version first, so they're throwing a temper tantrum, and throwing their weight around.
    Last edited by TheKid; 12-26-2009 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Keeping it civil......

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    "using licensed equipment or equipment the bought from the Germans/H&K for the PTR line of rifles. IIRC, I may be wrong or mis-informed"

    You are indeed incorrect. PTR's equipment & early batch of parts came from Portugal. As that country has a licensing agreement with H&K maybe that kept the Huns off PTR's back. Plus, its owners were from Argentina, and we all know the Teutonic fondness for that land .............

    If you've ever had to deal with H&K you'd know what an arrogant bunch they are.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    "HK doesn't give a damn about some plastic POS rifle especially in .22"

    Apparently they care enough to collect a license fee for a look-alike POS 22 rifle ..........

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    23

    Default

    ATI says they still do and will continue to have spare parts for the GSG=5 as well as warranty work if I am not mistaken. Their forum they have at AR15.com has the details.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,395

    Default

    Well I love my GSG-5 but I may also buy one of the Hk versions.
    What has our country become? More takers than givers.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    51

    Default

    HK owes nothing monitarily to CETME. The CETME was primarily designed by Ludwig Vorgrimler, a German firearms designer using the delayed roller block system refined in the MG42 and later used in the ST44. Among other German firearms companies, he worked for Mauser until 1945.
    About 1956 he returned to Germany from Spain, and was recruited to work for HK by HK chief engineer Alex Seidel (inventor of the HSc pistol). Vorgrimler decided rather to work for his old company, Mauser, instead. Heckler and Koch were Mauser designers, as was Alex Seidel before the surrender of Germany at the end of the war and the later formation of H&K.

    HK paid CETME handsomely for the rights to produce the G3, based heavily on the CETME design which was the product of Vorgrimler and assistants who worked at Reinmetall in Germany before the end of WWII. At least HK didn't rip CETME off for using their design, which is more than you can say for the GSG people.

    How would you like it if another company started producing a weapon based on a patented design you paid a lot of money to use or a patented design of your own invention and didn't want to pay you to do so? I don't blame HK one bit for taking this action.
    As for their customer service, everybody bashes them but I wonder how many of the critics have actually dealt with HK customer service? I agree they could be better but I bought my first HK pistol from them, a PSP in 1984 and I have several HK pistols since then and they have always been pretty cooperative with me. They sent me 7 free O rings for my HK CT 45 threaded barrel even though they could have charged me the crazy $8.00 apeice they wanted for them. They've sent a couple of extra free USP 40 cal magazine springs when I ordered two of them. They contacted me when I sent my CT 45 back to them for Novak's high rise sights and they charged me $10 less for them than Novaks was charging, and offered me a new pistol when Novaks chewed up the slide when removing the small sights, and then ate the cost of the high rise sights because of the troubles they (actually Novaks) caused me when they sent me the new pistol. They've sent me numerous clothing articles over the years for free. Are they as good as S&W's customer service? No, but they are not nearly as bad as I see people writing about them all the time. Sorry gents but I get really tired of reading about how lousy HK is. I've seen far worse products and customer service than they offer and I sure as heck would challenge another company making a clone of one of my products without my express permission and without paying me to do so.
    Last edited by Malysh; 01-04-2010 at 08:22 AM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On top of the world, looking down on creation
    Posts
    25,915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malysh View Post
    HK owes nothing historically to CETME. HK designed the rifle and also had techinical people go to Spain for production start up way back when.
    I don't blame HK for protecting their patents either. How would you like it if you spent years and a ton of money developing a firearm and somebody else came along and started producing a variation in 22lr and didn't want to pay you for the design? If the design was yours would all of you be happy to just let another company use it for free? I don't think so........
    Its not really HK's design, its merely the "look" or "style." Unless I see locking rollers on a GSG-5, its only a .22 that looks like an MP5. No different than a Fiero dressed up with a kit to look similar to a Ferrari.
    Любишь сиськи много?_____________Nein Frulein, das ist kein Leberwrst
    Да, мне нравится сиськи много. _____
    in der Tasche



  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Stein View Post
    Its not really HK's design, its merely the "look" or "style." Unless I see locking rollers on a GSG-5, its only a .22 that looks like an MP5. No different than a Fiero dressed up with a kit to look similar to a Ferrari.
    Well evidently, there was enough other similarities to the MP-5 that HK had a good case against GSG or they'd still be making them. There are other sub assemblies that were relevent in the patent designs even excluding the roller block design.
    I liked the idea of the GSG myself I just don't think it's wrong for HK to protect it's product and I think it's hypocritical for the buying public to bash them for it because I truly believe everybody reading this would have brought the exact same action against GSG if they were HK.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    5,621

    Default

    I wonder if the same people who defend hk also would defend sara brady, or fienstein, or clinton for also not wanting us to have access to firearms? Because hk shows through there treatment of the american consumer how they do not want us owning 'assault rifles'.....You would think that hk would notice this demand, and start making them....but no. They would produce the EXACT SAME FIREARM, OR MAYBE JUST LICENSE GSG TO MAKE THEM, AND THEN SELL THEM FOR 1500 DOLLERS.

    God I hate hk. Ugly, overrated, overpriced.

  27. #27
    Ol Duke's Avatar
    Ol Duke is offline Super Moderator Platinum Member Zombie Killer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Them thar E. Tenn hills
    Posts
    4,059

    Default

    I have one and it's fun, fun, fun....part of the problem was the fact that the GSG box had MP5 above the inventory bar code....:eek:
    Thanks,
    Ol'Duke

    "I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would be an affront to your intelligence."
    George Bernard Shaw

    Mihi ignosce. Cum homine de cane debeo congredi.
    (Excuse me. I need to see a man about a dog.)


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    I wonder if the same people who defend hk also would defend sara brady, or fienstein, or clinton for also not wanting us to have access to firearms? Because hk shows through there treatment of the american consumer how they do not want us owning 'assault rifles'.....You would think that hk would notice this demand, and start making them....but no. They would produce the EXACT SAME FIREARM, OR MAYBE JUST LICENSE GSG TO MAKE THEM, AND THEN SELL THEM FOR 1500 DOLLERS.

    God I hate hk. Ugly, overrated, overpriced.

    One thing is for sure.....if it has a red HK logo, the price automatically goes through the roof.
    I guarantee that you're smarter than I am.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •