Need parts for a 1861 Springfield Musket !

[manzo]

Picked up a musket at a garage sale for a former gunshop owner. Its original with a great bore. I need a lot of the smaller parts. Where is the best source for them. Should I use only originals or will repros kill value? I,m psyched to restore this gun & shoot some minie. Need all the barrel bands, tang screw & clean out screw. Are there 2 parts for the cleanout area? Advice welcome.

[Stuffy 25th IA]

Great place for parts

http://www.lodgewood.com/

http://www.ssfirearms.com/

It's hard to tell from your pictures, but it looks like you need a clean-out screw and a nipple.

[oldgoat46]

Try cruising Gunbroker There is allways someone selling parts on there.

[Deputy Dan]

That is NOT an 1861... it is an 1863 that someone messed with. The hammer and bolster are the wrong shape for an 1861. The bolster should not have a hole in it... it originally was solid, and was stamped with an eagle. Can you post some close up photos of the lock and barrel breech?

[TP]

Manzo, use original parts, the repop parts will not fit and if you try to make them fit you will destroy the stock which is VERY expensive to replace. Even if they did fit, as you said, they will negatively affect the value. Oh, you will also need another hammer, you have a M1863 hammer on an M1861 musket. (PS - Buckle down, the prices of original parts will shock you, but then you would be amazed how much the stock, lock and barrel on your gun are worth as "parts".) What is the arsenal/contractor name on the lock and can you make out the date on the lock and barrel? Stuffy's recommendations for vendors are good ones, of the two I prefer Lodgewood.

[TP]

That is NOT an 1861... it is an 1863 that someone messed with. The hammer and bolster are the wrong shape for an 1861. The bolster should not have a hole in it... it originally was solid, and was stamped with an eagle. Can you post some close up photos of the lock and barrel breech?

Dan, I saw that but thought that it was just out of focus photography. I think you may be right, though. Manzo, be sure you get the correct bands, the bands for the '63 are different than those for the '61.

[Deputy Dan]

TP... check out his 3rd photo. The bolster makes the barrel an 1863, or perhaps an 1861 Special Contract... it definitely not an 1861 rifle musket barrel.

[Deputy Dan]

If it has as nice a bore as stated, it may be worth the effort to bring it back as a shooter. I was looking at 1861's today... have too many holiday bills outstanding to buy one now. Saw quite a few really nice ones, and that put me in the right frame of mind to opine.

[TP]

TP... check out his 3rd photo. The bolster makes the barrel an 1863, or perhaps an 1861 Special Contract... it definitely not an 1861 rifle musket barrel.

Yep, you are correct and I saw that but the second photo being a little soft got me - the angle seems to make it look like a '61 bolster and I let it go. You are right, if the bore is good enough to make a good shooter, it is worth spending the money on original parts for a restoration. If the bore is bad it can be relined by Hoyt and put back into shooting condition, but how much money can be spent on parts and a rework before it goes over the price of a good, matching original?

[aracin]

Looks to be a 61 contract possibly by James Mowry. They used a small screw at the nipple port.

[Deputy Dan]

A few clear photos would remove all doubt.

[TP]

Looks to be a 61 contract possibly by James Mowry. They used a small screw at the nipple port.

No, I beleive Dan is correct, it is a '63, the bolster is just completely wrong for a '61 - someone added a clean out screw post military use. If Manzo can get back to us we will know for sure. Though we can't read it, by the length and location of the maker's stamp on the lock it appears to be marked "Springfield".

[oldgoat46]

photos of a Mowry contract musket. note hammer. Manzos gun could be a composite of different parts.

[Deputy Dan]

Mowry had a contract to produce Model 1861 rifle muskets... what Manzo posted photos of isn't an 1861 rifle musket. There is a HUGE difference beetween a contract produced 1861 rifle musket and an 1861 Special Contract (Produced by Colt, Amoskeag and LG&Y ONLY)The barrel could be from an 1861 SPECIAL CONTRACT, or a Model 1863 rifle musket... the 1861 Special Contract bears a strong resemblance to the 1863.

[Deputy Dan]

A couple of photos to clarify:

Top pic is a Colt produced 1861 Special Contract

[Deputy Dan]

A few better pics: A few 1861 Rifle Muskets and one 1863 Rifle musket for reference.

[manzo]

Had to use my older camera my new one is messed up. Upon close exam I found a light stamp saying Numrich Arms. W. Hurley. Did they sell 1861 Springfields or barrels years ago? Only markings are 1862 & U.S. Springfield on the lock.U.S. on butplate. The clean out plug does look like it takes only a screw. Is this wrong? All the parts are most likely stored away by the shop owner who passed away. His brother is doing the selling. I know enough that the stocks are expensive so I went for $150. I love that dark walnut. Can it be restored just with a cleanout screw & nipple. Lands & grooves are sharp & distint. No rust inside.

[Deputy Dan]

You have what appears to be a replica 1863 barrel that someone modified (it should NOT have a clean out screw in the bolster), an 1861 rifle musket lock fitted with a real 1863 hammer (they used to be really easy to find in new condition, as they were taken off new 1863 rifle muskets that were subsequently converted to breechloaders)... the stock is anyone's guess, someone messed with the lock mortise.

How do I know the barrel is a replica? You can see the seam where the breech end of the barrel is attached to the barrel.

[manzo]

Should I get 63 barrel bands? I,m still thinking of restoring with repros. If I don,t what is it worth right now either for parts or together. The Numrich is on the barrel. I suspect they messed with it.

[Deputy Dan]

It is a Numrich manufactured replica barrel... that someone subsequently drilled into the bolster to fit a clean out screw. '63 bands may fit. Your biggest problem is finding a screw with the correct diameter and thread pitch to fill the hole in your bolster... and that the threads are undamaged.. A smaller problem is insuring that the cone or nipple you procure fits the threads, and that the threads are also undamaged. Get some breech plug/nipple grease on the nipple and clean out screw threads when you install them if you ever want to remove them again.

P.S. Does your stock have band springs or mortices foe the band springs? If it does, it is probably an 1861 stock...or a late 1863 stock. 1861 and late (Type II ) 1863 Rifle Musket's bands were retained by springs. Early 1863's bands were retained by a tensioning screw. Confusing, isn't it.

[manzo]

It has the 3 spring loaded thin metal strips with the notch in it. There is a step in the wood that stops it from sliding further towards the butt. Does that help

[Deputy Dan]

Measure the distance between the spring and the band seats on the stock, and then post your findings.

[TP]

Also, what is the barrel length? Numrich made replacement barrels in the '60s and '70s but the length was not correct, they were very often made as muzzleloading barrels to fit Trapdoor Springfields.

[Deputy Dan]

Good call... I forgot about those!

[manzo]

I measure 10/16" for all 3 springs. Found the correct dia(.24) & threads to fill the bolster hole. Barrel end is 40" from nipple hole. 38 3/4" from seam line behind rear sight. Could the 3 leaf rear be original? Does this help with 63 or 61 bands? Thanks & Happy New Year

[Deputy Dan]

5/8ths... you need 1861 bands.

Your sight has a battle sight, a 300 yard sight and a 500 yard sight... and yes, rifle muskets are capable of shooting that far and hitting a target.

Remember to get some breech plug grease on the clean out screw and nipple threads prior to shooting it... they can be a real bear to get out if you don't.