ww2 russian sniper / rifle camo question
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Thread: ww2 russian sniper / rifle camo question

  1. #1
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    Question ww2 russian sniper / rifle camo question

    ok
    i know the red armyin ww2 used leather scope covers and canvas covers on pu and pe/pem rifles .

    i had a fellow shooter ask me .............did the russians ISSUE any canvas or other fabric canvas to cover the front handguard /front stock on the rifles for camo purposes ?
    or
    was this simply improvised as needed by each sniper to his own tastes /needs .
    i know variois camo uniforms were on issue,

    i have seen such improvised forstock coverings and/or rifles wrapped in scrap burlap/ canvas or white fabric pieces for winter .
    any info or photos most welcomed .
    thanks all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nb.nagantsniper View Post
    ok
    i know the red armyin ww2 used leather scope covers and canvas covers on pu and pe/pem rifles .

    i had a fellow shooter ask me .............did the russians ISSUE any canvas or other fabric canvas to cover the front handguard /front stock on the rifles for camo purposes ?
    or
    was this simply improvised as needed by each sniper to his own tastes /needs .
    i know variois camo uniforms were on issue,

    i have seen such improvised forstock coverings and/or rifles wrapped in scrap burlap/ canvas or white fabric pieces for winter .
    any info or photos most welcomed .
    thanks all.
    From what I can gather rifle wrapping really was not done that much by snipers except in winter.. Material when used was usually just winter White uniform cloth that was likely Ill gotten or by chance. Snipers do tend to be a resourceful lot.

    More often the sniper would just cover him (or her) self and gun with a great coat or rain cape to break up the outline. Some snipers would apply a camouflaged pattern to these materials but not really that often. It was not common or normal to wrap the gun itself in any material. All items like this where ad-hoc, personal preference and not issued.

  3. #3
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    Ive never seen it done outside of the movies.
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    Ive never seen it done outside of the movies.
    Yeah it should be well stated that Photo evidence does not exist, as far as aware, and there are only snippets of other recollections here and there in literature.

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    Here are a few photos



    Last edited by Rodimtsev; 01-13-2010 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #6
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    great photos

    I think Antti might have posted this one in the past.


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  8. #7
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    Can anyone see the serial # on his bolt?



    Quote Originally Posted by SturmGrenadier View Post
    great photos

    I think Antti might have posted this one in the past.


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    "I must hurry, for there they go, and I am their leader!" Ghandi

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    Iron sight still usable / not covered.



    Last edited by vincentvangerven; 01-26-2015 at 04:06 PM.

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    here's another one, not sure if Fritz added the camo or not, but it's wrapped...


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    Cool pics. Thanks for posting them Do you have any more info as to time and campaign of the first one with the tank and sub guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askari74 View Post
    Cool pics. Thanks for posting them Do you have any more info as to time and campaign of the first one with the tank and sub guns?
    That's an OT-34 flamethrower tank and the sniper is wearing the 1943 style tunic with shoulderboards. He might be a senior sergeant, but I can't tell if that's one thick stripe across the shoulder board(senior sergeant) or two or three narrow stripes. The others are armed with PPSh-41 smgs and a rifle that appears to be an M1891/30. It looks like summer with the brown vegetation, so guessing Kursk or later.

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    In all the photos they just wrapped the front half. Did they figure their body covered the rest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AniWaya View Post
    In all the photos they just wrapped the front half. Did they figure their body covered the rest?
    What i experienced is that with a full wrap the gun will slip and slide under the fabric when it recoils; my groups opened up compared to when i had my hands and check directly on the wood.

    It was hard to hold it consistently during the recoiling process.

    So I've removed the rear half of the wrap and it shoots great once again.

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    Thumbs up

    here is 2 photo of what a reenactor buddy did to camo up his rifle .......... barrel cover and scope cover both made up by me !
    from

    don in canada
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMAG0288.jpg   IMAG0289.jpg  
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  16. #15
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    Hello,

    no clue were I found it but here is a German capture PE sniper with wrap, camo, and sniper mask. I hope it period but I DO NOT KNOW.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PE Camo Rifle Wrap.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaughn99 View Post
    Hello,

    no clue were I found it but here is a German capture PE sniper with wrap, camo, and sniper mask. I hope it period but I DO NOT KNOW.
    Did they not use globe front sights on PE snipers?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len S View Post
    Did they not use globe front sights on PE snipers?
    Yes.

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    For those that have never fired a Mosin Nagant ... they tend to get very hot after just a few rounds.

    Can anyone imagine the consequences of (high) heat on a piece of cloth ? And if this canvas is snow covered ? Or simply (slightly) humid ?

    When Simo Häyäh was putting snow in his mouth to avoid his breath to release vapors ... snipers on the "other side" were just heating up humid canvas.

    Canvas on the breech and bolt to avoid rattle when dragging the rifle while progressing lying on the ground : yes. Canvas around the barrel : no.


    (Beware of reenactment photos ... there are many around)

  20. #19
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    Instead of "not being sure" ... please CHECK your source. This photo is a FAKE ! It's picture from a UK reenactment group Grossdeutschland Aufklarung.

    http://www.panzeraufgd.co.uk/Rzhev%2...20article.html


    The number 1 problem with these groups is that they kind of "invent" history.

    The number 2 problem is that people just repost blindly the (excellent) photos of their reenactments ... but they falsify history. And I really dislike that !!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vincentvangerven View Post
    here's another one, not sure if Fritz added the camo or not, but it's wrapped...


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    So are the Radimstev photos reenactment also? They sure don't look to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws2 View Post
    So are the Radimstev photos reenactment also? They sure don't look to be.
    They look pretty real to me. The whole barrel or action is not wrapped it you look with an eye that can see. They are wrapped just about like the way refurbed PUs are darker in that area by the refurb process. I doubt that is a co-incidence. I have always opined that darker fore end was intentional to break up the outline of the rifle and make them less visible. The Germans used white wash in the winter. Why would the Soviet do squat to help their snipers survive?

    A sniper does not heat up the barrel to set the cloth on rifle. One shot, one kill. It would be an exception, not the norm, for any sniper to heat up their rifle to the point it would catch fabric on fire.

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    +1 on very limited rounds from Red Army snipers.

    Zaitsev wrote that it was rare for his teams to even fire an entire magazine (5) rounds in a day.

    Rapid fire brought down artillery on your head very quickly in many locations, but some of the Leningrad and Stalingrad snipers probably fired quickly when supporting advancing infantry as overwatch.

    This overwatch sniper activity is clearly described in "Red Sniper on the Eastern Front" about the Leningrad breakout, and Zaitsev tells of firing over the heads of advancing troops from a sniper hide, a modern tactic well-developed by Red snipers.

    Zaitsev was so filthy that he probably looked like a bit of Stalingrad mud and brick, telling how he didn't get a fresh uniform for weeks, sitting and crawling soaking wet in trenches and being buried alive at one point. Now that is camo!

    Most snipers who lived more than a few days didn't hang their rifle barrels over windows or walls like in the movies, instead firing from far enough back that they couldn't be seen, preferably from a well-hidden "hide" or through a hidden small hole. This limits horizontal views but keeps you alive. The Red Army sniper manual specifically shows how to make holes in roofs and foundations to shoot through without sticking out a barrel. Modern snipers are taught the same thing - stay back and don't get spotted.

    Still, a rifle wrap would have been very useful in open country, where the Red Army equivalent of ghillie suits and foliage were used. Winter snipers used camo, of course, with Finns said to have put whitewash on rifles, easily removed later.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    They look pretty real to me. The whole barrel or action is not wrapped it you look with an eye that can see. They are wrapped just about like the way refurbed PUs are darker in that area by the refurb process. I doubt that is a co-incidence. I have always opined that darker fore end was intentional to break up the outline of the rifle and make them less visible. The Germans used white wash in the winter. Why would the Soviet do squat to help their snipers survive?

    A sniper does not heat up the barrel to set the cloth on rifle. One shot, one kill. It would be an exception, not the norm, for any sniper to heat up their rifle to the point it would catch fabric on fire.
    Last edited by Stalin's Ghost; 02-22-2017 at 08:54 PM.

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    Interesting subject...I have wondered this before as well for the Svt and Mosin. It could be something they just did as individuals as it seems that most of the pics of winter snipers do all have the same snowsuit gear but only a few wrap their rifles. Would be cool to find out more.

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