Yugoslav Mauser rifle (post WWII) crest study
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 45 of 55

Thread: Yugoslav Mauser rifle (post WWII) crest study

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    smile Yugoslav Mauser rifle (post WWII) crest study

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Yugo crest carved.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	289505

    Yugo Crest Study


    I snagged this carving image off an auction site. It sold for a pretty fair amount. I've no idea who the winner was. If you're here and object to my using it, lemme know and I'll yank it. If you just would like recognition, sing out!
    Many here are aware I have been trying to run a study on the various crests stamped upon the receiver rings of Yugoslavia's post WWII military Mauser rifles. I was invited to post it here for a sticky some little while ago.

    My apologies for not getting it posted sooner but, I have been much occupied otherwise. It has become clear to me that I cannot get this all posted at one time so I'm going to make this an introduction, present what I'm trying to do, hope to accomplish, and give some idea what I have learned so far. I will present the bare bones here now so we can get this anchored, and then I will build on it as I can. Then with your help, maybe we can learn more about these rifles and perhaps how to better judge when and where they were made/reworked.
    Thank you and the owners of this forum for extending me this opportunity.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I've observed that there is a wide range of variety in the crests applied to post WWII Yugoslavian Military Mauser rifles. This is due to the fact that the tools used to make these impressions were individually hand cut by different artisans. The many variations come, in part at least, from the difference in skill levels and the whim of the maker. There may have been a difference in available patterns as well because there are one of two major design characteristic visible in every crest.
    reference: I had this comment in an email from Branko (Bogdanovic- Author of "Serbian & Yugoslav Mauser Rifles," Zastava Historian and researcher for the Milkitary Museum- Belgrade) ... First of all, the crest design itself was not strictly regulated. Separate tools were made in each factory and workshop and crest shape depended on toolmaker's skill. The same applies to the inscriptions as well. They were all either engraved or stamped. (As in Hadzici's TRZ.5) Elektropenciling only started to be applied for the first time on the semiautomatic rifle PAP M1959. (sks) Branko
    The crest design under discussion is the Post WWII Communist crest applied to the receiver rings of Yugoslavia's Mauser rifles. It is basically well known- 5 torches (a 6th was added in 1963 but this version will not appear on our Mausers) w/in a wreath of wheat stalks crossed at the bottom. These wreath stems should officially (I believe) be crossed left over right. But the ends can be seen either way about equally on the stamps. Whether this is the result of carelessness or perhaps dyslexia on the part of the tool makers or variations in available patterns is unknown.
    Concerning patterns, there appears to have been, as noted above, two distinctly different design variations available to the tool makers. Details may change: whether the crest be crude or refined, the number of grain seeds represented, the size and consistency of the star, the wreath, the arrangement of the torches and their flames, all details may vary. But, there will consistently be one of two features. The crest will either be circular, round as a circle or, ovoid as in an elongated circle or 'egg shaped.'

    So far, I have only identified a few crests as being specific to certain shops. One example is the small, refined crest seen on the earlier Kragujevac (factory 44) rifles. These are notable by being smaller than most crests seen and very finely made. This crest is seen on 24/47s marked 3AVOD 44 which was replaced with the familiar Serbian Cyrillic ПРЕДУЗЕЋЕ (PREDUZECE) 44 stamp in Sept 1947 so we know it was used prior to that date. I have not seen another crest on the 3ДVOD (ZAVOD) 44 rifles but that crest does appear, with others, on later rifles produced there. It is my guess that this finely made stamp was the first in use at Kragujevac. So far, I have not been able to catalog the other Kragujevac crests. Another factor affecting time of use there would be when the use of the Latin script "PREDUZECE" first began to be used. I cannot say for sure when that was. If any here can say, please do.

    There are other crests unique to a specific shop. These are some particularly crude crests seen on Hadzici's TRZ.5. By association, there's a crest identified with shop TR137 (location unknown) while not identical to a TRZ.5 crest, was undoubtedly made to the same drawing and perhaps may reasonably be believed to have been made by the same hand. In either case, that may also suppose a nearness in geographical location to each other.

    There's a well detailed crest soundly identified with shop RADIONICA 124 (location unknown). So far it is the only one so identified with that shop. But this same crest appears on a RAD 145 rifle.

    I also have two apparently identical crests but on a PRED 44 and RAD145 rifle, respectively. There are a number of crests cross represented. Each tool was cut by hand. Can two tools be so nearly identical? Considering the roughness apparent in the details- look at the stars, wheat stalks, especially the grains representation, banner, torch base and flames, date--- none are exactly or even remotely consistent--- I would say not. So I don't think we can say we have a number of identical tools provided to different shops by the same maker, except perhaps in the case of the three similar crude TRZ.5/TR137 crests (so far).
    My best guess about that is that a rifle was first reworked, and crested, at one shop, and then later reworked at another who then placed there stamps upon the rifle. I'm open to suggestions. Any and all information is welcome. I do intend working this into an article to be presented for publication. If any are concerned about information being so presented, or want recognition for any images used, please let me know.

    So it appears we have a lot of cross comparing to do and determining what it may mean. Each tool was cut by hand. Can two tools be so nearly identical? Considering the roughness apparent in the details- look at the stars, none are exactly or even remotely even and square- I would say not. So I don't think we can say we have a number of identical tools provided to different shops by the same maker, except perhaps in the case of the three similar crude TRZ.5/TR137 crests (so far).

    Below I will post some crests I have so far cataloged. Then some I have not pegged.
    A note on my images. They have come, often, from you and members of other forums, some were lifted from auction sites and some are/were my own. I will not try to identify each owner of the crests. Y'all know who you are. Feel free to sing out if you want to claim credit. If someone recognizes their crest and does not want it posted, contact me and I'll take it down.

    Why do this? One, I have an "enquiring mind" and just want to know. To add to our knowledge base. To maybe help identify otherwise unknown details about a rifle. By example we can now surmise, if not positively state, that two rifles with no manufacturer's code well may have been done at TRZ.5. Maybe we can, in time, narrow a crest to period of use such as the 3AVOD 44 stamp to help date rifles. Maybe to track a weapon through it's refurb/repair course. By example, we know a lot of 24/47s went through (at least) a second rebuild before going into final storage. Maybe we can say where both operations were done? Who knows. I can say Branko has little interest or no info to share so we're pretty much on our own here. That's ok. We found TRZ.5 on our own, didn't we?

    These are identified RAD 124 crests on different rifles. I have more identical so identified.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Radionica 124 x 3&#101.jpg
Views:	376
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	288780

    This is on a block font, hyphened TRZ-5 mod 98. I believe this seldom seen shop identifier to be a very early type. This may be one of the first crests applied to post war Yugo Mauser rifles. It is notable by its crudeness and roughness. The Block font, hyphened TRZ-5 stamp is, I would say, extremely rare. I only have two examples. "Moconfed"s below makes a third. Each has had this same crest.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	NotPC block TRZ5 c&.jpg
Views:	251
Size:	33.3 KB
ID:	288781

    The top of this group of three (below) is on an identified script font TRZ.5. The bottom two are from rifles unmarked as to manufacturer. Close examination will reveal variations in each crest indication each was from a different tool. They are crude or perhaps merely simplified. Were these made by the same maker? The bottom two appear to be a little for finely made than the top. Could it be that the drawing used was what was crude and not the tool maker's skill?
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	3 crests made by &#.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	71.5 KB
ID:	288782

    The left crest here (below) is on a TR137 rifle. It is similar but not identical to the one on right or any of the others of the three above. Clearly crudely made. By the, or one of the, makers above? Or perhaps simply to the same drawing? Were these crests made in close geographical location to each other? Other than TRZ.5, none of these other shop's locations are known (or the knowledge restricted).
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	TR137-TRZ5..jpg
Views:	191
Size:	28.8 KB
ID:	289492
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This is all for now. I'll add to it as time allow. Please add anything you can. Even if you merely have a crest already represented, plurality matters. The more crests we can ascribe to a shop, the greater the weight of evidence that it belonged to one shop or another. That could help explain the cases of isolated duplicated crests attached to different shop marked rifles.
    Thanks for your help.
    'nug (Jim)

    PS: PRED 44 coming soon...
    (having difficulties with this new fangled image manager... )
    Last edited by nothernug; 02-26-2010 at 10:42 AM.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  2. #2

    Default

    Fantastic work Nug, it is now a "sticky" as promised, thanks for making the information resulting from all of your hard work available here. Okay everyone, start dragging out the Yugos and posting any information you can add, Nug deserves a lot of applause (as well as a helping hand) for his efforts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    Gonna throw this out there...

    I have been collecting the 24/47s for a few years now and I have several variations in my collection... additionally (over the last few months) I have kept an eye on rifles I have seen pop up from time to time. I have noticed a trend that I think warrants mentioning... I have been keeping notes on the serial #s that pop up on the Rad 145s and the Rad 124s...

    Of the seven I have been able to photo document, all have had an 'N' prefix...
    N 5** Rad 145; N 11** Rad 145; N 13** Rad 145; N 16** Rad 124; N 21** Rad 124; N 22** Rad 124; N 33** Rad 124

    This almost looks like they were made at the same location... at some point between rifle N 13** and N 16** the Rad number was changed from 145 to 124... I dont know if this observation would hold if Yugo converted K98s with Rad 145 and Rad 124 markings were thrown in, but I'd like to find out.

    Additionally, I have noticed a similar pattern with the TR137 and Trz. 5 rifles... they seem to start with the "R" prefix
    R05** TR 137; R10** TR 137; R13** TR137; R20** (unmarked); R27** TRZ-5; R29** TRZ-5

    I know there are a lot more of these rifles out there than the 13 rifles I have referenced here, and I would like to see if anyone can find examples that contradict these suggestions. We know that the Zavod 44 marking was changed in 1947, maybe then or at some other time the others were changed too.
    Last edited by Xygorak; 02-26-2010 at 08:05 AM.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,564

    Default

    Receiver crest and siderail from my TRZ-5 K98. Serial #R3589. Couldn't remember if I'd already got you these or not, northernug.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crest2.jpg trz5siderail.jpg
    Last edited by moconfed; 02-25-2010 at 06:21 AM.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Not that one MoConfed. I'd remember that "5".

    Interesting observation on the serial numbers. Unfortunately, I hadn't tracked those with my crests. As for changing the shop identifier, I don't know. Kragujevac changed their code name, yes, but there number- 44- remained the same.
    Branko gives these shops, TRZ.5, VR.69, RAD124, RAD145, & TR.137 time of service as 1945 - 1991 and location unknown. We've located TRZ.5 and know it, at least parts of the complex, were in operation well past 1991. Exactly when the TRZ.5 designator was dropped I can't say. (don't know).
    So we really know nothing of the other shops. I'm hoping we can turn up something on them.

    Btw. Xygorak? My TRZ.5 rifle's serial prefix is the letter "R".
    Last edited by nothernug; 01-19-2012 at 03:43 AM.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NW Orygun
    Posts
    837

    Default

    I'm a yugo newbie so I'm not up to speed on the location of all the ID marks. Were would I look for the shop ID? I have a M48 , A76133. Crest is different than any posted so far. The crest has the number "29X11943" in the banner below the flames. It appears to be very well done. I'll dig out my macro lens and post a photo.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    If it is an M48 it will probably have the same shop ID as all the other M48s and most of the M24/47s Preduceze 44 (which may appear as ПРЕДУЗЕЋЕ 44) If you look on the left side of the receiver you should see that stamped into the metal. The "29XI1943" is a date... November 29, 1943 and this refers to the establishment of the new Yugoslav state (Democratic Federal Yugoslavia).. later this name was changed to Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia (both names referenced in wikipedia article)... I believe the latter is the name referenced on your rifle, it is to the left of the workshop stamp... and is shown in abbreviated form as ФНРЈ (I think this could be more directly translated to Federal National Republic of Yugoslavia (Federativna Narodna Republika Jugoslavija) 'narodna' referring to 'nation' or 'national' rather than 'people'... and this seems to be the translation Branko used in his book...I'd go with the latter over the wiki info.
    Last edited by Xygorak; 02-26-2010 at 07:52 AM.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I purchased a Yugo 8MM several years ago. It is a 44. The M24/47 is stamped on the left side of the bolt ring. The crest is very lightly stamped on top of the bolt ring. (only the top of the crest appears and fades to nothing torward the bottom of where the rest of the crest should be) On the right side of the bolt ring the serial number is stamped starting with a large number 3 then some space and the smaller numbers 6121. The same number is stamped on top of the straight bolt handle. The left side of the stock near the butt is stamped 1.TRZ, and beneath that 6121. This gun appears new and unissued due to the pristine condtion of the stock and finish of the metal and stock.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    Here are some pics from a M24/47 (Rad 124) in my collection.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	pic1..jpg
Views:	163
Size:	39.8 KB
ID:	289468Click image for larger version.

Name:	pic3..jpg
Views:	128
Size:	62.1 KB
ID:	289469Click image for larger version.

Name:	pic4..jpg
Views:	96
Size:	60.4 KB
ID:	289470Click image for larger version.

Name:	gun 045..jpg
Views:	85
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	289471

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    And here are some from another M24/47 (Rad 145)

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSCN0637..JPG
Views:	116
Size:	51.1 KB
ID:	289473Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSCN0638..JPG
Views:	113
Size:	43.3 KB
ID:	292388Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSCN0634..JPG
Views:	93
Size:	57.5 KB
ID:	289472
    Last edited by Xygorak; 03-05-2010 at 08:14 AM.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oxford, Ohio
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00704..JPG
Views:	77
Size:	162.4 KB
ID:	289522Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00705..JPG
Views:	63
Size:	162.4 KB
ID:	289521Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00702..JPG
Views:	104
Size:	161.0 KB
ID:	289520Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00703..JPG
Views:	70
Size:	165.1 KB
ID:	289519Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00700..JPG
Views:	80
Size:	164.3 KB
ID:	289518Click image for larger version.

Name:	DSC00699..JPG
Views:	102
Size:	164.9 KB
ID:	289517

    Figured I would join in and let you take a gander at my 24/47. My wife bought this for me for Christmas a few years ago. If you look closely at the picture with the model designation you can just barely make out a bit of the original markings to the left of the M in M.24/47. This is one of my favorite rifles, it just has a good feel to it.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Cinci, Ohio
    Posts
    2,542

    Default

    A M-48. Sorry, not the best pics.
    In Memorium:
    LST 941 - GM1c

    You can view pics of my collection here.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On my farm in Missouri
    Posts
    2,367

    Default

    Here is the crest from my Rad 145, M98/48 w/SN. Regards, Rick.

    Here are 2 more, a Zavod44 and a TRZ137. The 137 has an odd SN that starts with a zero. Obviously all 3 crests are different.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails rad145..jpg zav44..jpg trz137..jpg
    Last edited by sakorick; 03-04-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Thanks! I only have one other TR 137 crest. (alas, not my rifle) it looks as if it could well be the same stamp. I hadn't recorded the owner's name in this case. It ain't your rifle too, is it
    The one on the left.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	TR137-TRZ5..jpg
Views:	42
Size:	28.8 KB
ID:	292293
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On my farm in Missouri
    Posts
    2,367

    Default

    Nope....not mine. I'll post some more soon. Regards, Rick.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,143

    Default

    Here are mine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M48A..jpg 24_47..jpg 98_48..jpg
    Damn the expense, use your turn signals today... and as a special favour, try doing it before you have two wheels in the next lane.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    13,283

    Default

    M48, "A" prefix, walnut stock.

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	M48c..jpg
Views:	81
Size:	220.8 KB
ID:	292866Click image for larger version.

Name:	M48b..jpg
Views:	84
Size:	95.5 KB
ID:	292867Click image for larger version.

Name:	M48a..jpg
Views:	73
Size:	93.2 KB
ID:	292868
    Gary

    ***WARNING*** Mosins breed like rabbits!

    In shallow men the fish of little thoughts cause much commotion. In oceanic minds the whales of inspiration make hardly a ruffle. PARAMHANSA YOGANANDA

    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. Gerald R. Ford

    "Let your effort be louder than your mouth."

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    N. VA
    Posts
    7,046

    Default

    Hey Nug,

    Heres my TR. 137

    Xygorak has one more TR. 137 on the way also I believe
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 866..jpg

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    central florida
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Hello nug,
    Haven't seen any VR69 on here, thought you might like to see mine. It appears to be all german except maybe the barrel. You can barely make out S/27 & 1937 on the receiver ring.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails guns 164..jpg guns 166..jpg guns 165..jpg
    I'm against picketing protesters, but I don't know how to express myself!

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On my farm in Missouri
    Posts
    2,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by type96 View Post
    Hello nug,
    Haven't seen any VR69 on here, thought you might like to see mine. It appears to be all german except maybe the barrel. You can barely make out S/27 & 1937 on the receiver ring.
    Hello Type 96. That's the only one I don't have! If you ever want to sell it please PM me. Regards, Rick.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On my farm in Missouri
    Posts
    2,367

    Default

    Here are 4 more. Rad 145, Rad 124, TRZ.5 and No shop mark. The TRZ. 5 and the no shop mark have very similar crests. Regards, Rick.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails y1-1..jpg y2-1..jpg y3-1..jpg y4-1..jpg

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pell City AL
    Posts
    817

    Default

    Attachment 293265

    M24/47 PreduzeĆe 44 with Ж () prefix
    SVT40tula-91/30izzy1929-91/30izzy1938-M38izzy-M44izzy-HRAGarand-SAGarand-Eddystone1917-Remington1903A3-Remington1903A3-SA1903-COLT SP1-24/47-DOU43K98-Gew88 1890-Polish Tantal-SR105-CETME


    The militia is certainly an object of primary importance, whether reviewed in reference to the national security, to the satisfaction of the community or to the preservation of order
    -George Washington

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    143

    Default

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	Mauser 98K Yugosl&#.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	110.4 KB
ID:	297069Click image for larger version.

Name:	Mauser 98K Yugosl&#.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	124.6 KB
ID:	297068Click image for larger version.

Name:	Mauser 98K Yugosl&#.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	107.0 KB
ID:	297067Click image for larger version.

Name:	Mauser 98K Yugosl&#.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	75.4 KB
ID:	297066
    Roger
    NRA Endowment Member and CRPA
    Handgun Racks - http://www.ArmoryRacks.com

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Thanks for the VR 69! That one is different, distinct unto itself.

    These crude ones are driving me bonkers.

    We have not seen (that I know of) any such from Kragujevac (factory 44). We also know they had a finely made one from the earliest 3AVOD 44 examples.

    The crude ones (noted so far IIRC) come from TRZ.5 (Hadzici), TR137 & rifles with no manufacturers mark. I have maybe 5 different tool stamps of this type which I refer to as the "ovoid." I have one crude stamp of the round type on a block font TRZ5.
    I'll get together a group pick of the different stamps of this type. What I cannot make up my mind about and have no evidence of any kind is whether these crude stamps are the work of one tool make of limited skill or one crude drawing distributed to the different shops. I do not include these as a separate type since they closely, if crudely, follow the one. I still believe (again, wholly unsupported) that these crude crests represent the earliest crests used. I base this on the belief that more refined tools would have been desired as soon as makers of sufficient skill could be found.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    N. VA
    Posts
    7,046

    Default

    Hey Nug heres a pic of my two TR 137 rifles side by side..The top is R0595 and the bottom is R1265..Both quite diff from each other..Most notable among many differences is the left over right Vs right over left of the Wheat stalks and the number of Wheat heads or "seeds"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 036.jpg 055.jpg 866.jpg 868..jpg

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    Moved these three pics over to the crest study... 3 K98 refurbs an unmarked, a Rad 45 and a TR69

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	dscn0003.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	59.6 KB
ID:	335204 Click image for larger version.

Name:	pix457993531.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	25.7 KB
ID:	335205 Click image for larger version.

Name:	pix1766104343.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	20.7 KB
ID:	335206

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by painterjohn View Post
    Hey Nug heres a pic of my two TR 137 rifles side by side..The top is R0595 and the bottom is R1265..Both quite diff from each other..Most notable among many differences is the left over right Vs right over left of the Wheat stalks and the number of Wheat heads or "seeds"
    Another unusual feature of them is that the "M24/47" is stamped on top of the receiver ring beneath the crest instead of on the lower left side of the receiver ring.

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	B 24-47 receiver siderail.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	32.6 KB
ID:	352673
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    This thread has been quiet for awhile. How's about an M24/52c to round it out?

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	IMG_5171.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	298.4 KB
ID:	365981

  30. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    ocala fl
    Posts
    753

    Default

    Here is my VR 69 Mod.98/48
    Last edited by ofd291; 02-01-2011 at 12:02 PM.
    USS Leahy CG-16 83-86
    4th FSSG NAS JAX 86-90

  31. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Great crest and sharp pic on the 24/52C! Thanks Xygorak.

    The rail marking on the Mod.98/48 indicates refurbing from 1950. Thanks for it.
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  32. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Here's my Rad145 on 1.TRZ stock.





    Inventory:
    1 Argentine 3 Americans 3 Czechoslovakians
    2 English 2 Egyptians 1 Finn 1 French
    1 German 1 Israeli 1 Persian 1 Romanian 6 Russians
    1 Swede 2 Swiss 1 Syrian 1 Turk 1 Yugoslavian
    1 Bulgarian 1 Serbian

  33. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Hi nothermug I have 1 Yugo M-48 Prezudece 44 , great shooter very accurate,first time out I could not miss aiming at random targets using 38 and 39 Greek ammo I think it has a F prefix I will check when I get home, as someone said Great work on crest research, tony-08

  34. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    407

    Default

    That's Interesting, I had noticed different rifles had different crests, but never gave it any though other than since it was a different model that explained it. Something for you to consider, ever realize how many export M-48s with different national crests there are? Other than Yugos there's Syrian , some that are blank and I believe Egyptian and Iraqi ? Perhaps others ??

  35. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,098

    Default

    Here is mine. This line of rifles is not my forte so if you guys could give me a description of what I have beyond M24/47 I would appreciate it. TIA
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails crest.JPG receiver marks.JPG stock 1tr.JPG bolt yugo.JPG M24 47 left.JPG M24 47 right.JPG

    http://forums.gunboards.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24847&dateline=122561  0333

  36. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaz5833 View Post
    Here is mine. This line of rifles is not my forte so if you guys could give me a description of what I have beyond M24/47 I would appreciate it. TIA
    jaz5833,
    As are all M24/47s, yours is a refurbed Model 1924. As far as I can see from the receiver, it is not clear whether it was Belgian or Serbian made originally. Some of them have the "ghosts" of previous markings under visible and that is how you can make that call. The refurb facility was Preduceze44 which was Yugoslav code for the Zastava factory in Kragujevac, Serbia. There are several others that come up, Zavod44 is an earlier and more uncommon name for the same refurb facility. There are at least four others which are more uncommon. The 1.TRZ marking near the butt indicates that this rifle was refurbed later in its life, and this occurred at a facility in Cacak, Serbia. There are two positions that I have observed this mark, yours is in the more common location, the other is just above the serial on the other side of the stock. The proof on your bolt handle, the T with Crown, is I believe, a royal proof dating to the original Model 1924 rifles that your /47 was created from. Blueing is nice, but the stock looks sanded rather heavily as the 1.TRZ and the serial are not so clear.

  37. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,098

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xygorak View Post
    jaz5833,
    As are all M24/47s, yours is a refurbed Model 1924. As far as I can see from the receiver, it is not clear whether it was Belgian or Serbian made originally. Some of them have the "ghosts" of previous markings under visible and that is how you can make that call. The refurb facility was Preduceze44 which was Yugoslav code for the Zastava factory in Kragujevac, Serbia. There are several others that come up, Zavod44 is an earlier and more uncommon name for the same refurb facility. There are at least four others which are more uncommon. The 1.TRZ marking near the butt indicates that this rifle was refurbed later in its life, and this occurred at a facility in Cacak, Serbia. There are two positions that I have observed this mark, yours is in the more common location, the other is just above the serial on the other side of the stock. The proof on your bolt handle, the T with Crown, is I believe, a royal proof dating to the original Model 1924 rifles that your /47 was created from. Blueing is nice, but the stock looks sanded rather heavily as the 1.TRZ and the serial are not so clear.
    Thanks Xygorak for the info.

    Your assessment of the stock condition is correct. This was one of the first surplus rifles I ever purchased and like others before me, I decided it needed to be "Pretty". No sandpaper was involved but steel wool was. I am now much wiser and prefer to preserve the history of my acquisitions.
    http://forums.gunboards.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=24847&dateline=122561  0333

  38. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Just joined found my Mauser in some of my dad's stuff after he passed away. I have the serial number and the 29X11943 and a 59 and some other letters and numbers on it (G6423), What I am missing is the Yugoslavian writing and the M24/47 where that should be is just totally blank. Not scatched off or anything. Just clean metal in those locations. Well there appears to be some what is it called Cosmoline still on this rifle.
    I know this post is old, but I could sure use some help identifying this gun and the best way to remove the cosmoline and preserve this gun.
    Thanks

  39. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Howdy Dave and welcome to the forum:

    This "older post" you attached your reply to is actually a "sticky," a topic attached to the front page for continual review. Is purpose is for collecting and sharing specific information, to whit, variations in Yugoslav Communist era crests.

    These stickies don't get that much review. You would do better to make your post a "new topic" on the main forum. It would get much more response there. I've sent you a PM with answers to your questions. Now post on the main forum and you'll get a proper Gun Boards welcome!
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  40. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Groupie, I had found out there are 48 milled parts 48A stamped parts, and obo, which I have forgotten exactly,i think means unknown and are unmarked, hope it helps, tony-08

  41. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    West of the Pecos, TX
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Old thread, I know.

    The M48 BO model has, of course, had the crest removed. Some information on these rifles would be much appreciated!

    The example in my collection is very neatly "scrubbed", preserving all markings except those on the receiver ring. Otherwise, it conforms to M48A specs.

  42. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsmgguy View Post
    Old thread, I know.

    The M48 BO model has, of course, had the crest removed. Some information on these rifles would be much appreciated!

    The example in my collection is very neatly "scrubbed", preserving all markings except those on the receiver ring. Otherwise, it conforms to M48A specs.
    Need to double check Branko's book, but I think most of the BO rifles where never stamped with a crest to begin with...hence no need to scrub them. They were intended for export. The BO translates roughly to "without markings". I think also a way to add "plausible deniability" depending on where these rifles showed up.
    Last edited by Stan61; 01-14-2015 at 11:06 AM.

  43. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas Piney woods
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Branko has told us that rifles often were sold for export prior to 1956. That is when the "bo" (for "bez oznake" which Google translator renders as "w/out labels") began as a dedicated production model in M48B configuration that year alongside conventionally conventionally marked M48B rifles..

    I have an M48bo in first model configuration, all milled, all matching and, unissued. Now, I can't find any sign that it was scrubbed. No problem. They no doubt made many batches which they completed w/out putting all the national stamps on. Some, as it has been said, pulled others off the rack, scrubbed and refinished to complete an order or perhaps fill a rush one.

    Concerning the "plausible deniability" theory however, it just does not hold up. My M48bo for example while devoid of crest or other national markings does bear the "BK" military acceptance stamp typical of Yugoslavia along with a number of other typical Yugoslavian inspection stamps. There's also a plain "T" stamp for proof test. Now, that is in lieu of the official 5pt star over "T" that should have been used but, that plain T was also frequently appeared on Yugoslav issued weapons so is not remarkable in itself.

    Finally there's the rifle itself. The M48 intermediate length Mauser with extractor relief cut in the barrel face. Designed by and manufactured solely in Yugoslavia. Kind of hard to deny that. No, the simple explanation for the lack of Yugoslavian crest or markings is this; if you were purchasing arms for your nation's military, would you want somebody else's markings all over them? I doubt it.
    Also, you might want to put your own crest and/or other markings upon them.

    That satisfy?
    "In times of trouble and of war, God and soldiers we adore;
    When wars are done and wrongs are righted, God's forgotten and the soldier slighted."
    Olde English proverb, origin unknown

    I do not play the computer "friend" game, thing. Please do not "friend" me. I will gladly answer PMs if you want contact with me.

  44. #43
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    531

    Default

    with extractor relief cut in the barrel face. Designed by and manufactured solely in Yugoslavia
    the extractor relieve cut (or 'enclosed cartridge case rim', as named in MMRotW) is a rare feature on Mauser rifles, which have only the Yugos (all Yugoslavian makes, from 1899C till 48), and the Mauser 1910 export models (like the 1910 Costa Rica). After WW1, only the Yugo makes used it. The Yugo 1948 had it -> it's for sure a Yugo make.

    Some more discussion and pics (my M48 in post #5): http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...this-an-M48-BO
    Chris

  45. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Click image for larger version.

Name:	k98 yugo crest.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	41.1 KB
ID:	873506trz-5 mod 98. I believe this crest matches the one on the of the page. New to page thanks for the add.
    Click image for larger version.

Name:	reciever.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	53.3 KB
ID:	873510
    Last edited by greggolego; 03-06-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  46. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Cinci, Ohio
    Posts
    2,542

    Default

    Not sure if this would be of interest here but; I bought this printing block off ebay a few weeks ago from a guy in Serbia.
    I'll try and get a better picture when I can.

    In Memorium:
    LST 941 - GM1c

    You can view pics of my collection here.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts