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  1. #1
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    Default Why is Norinco manufactured SKS inferior?

    After reading another thread here I saw a comment that commercial Chinese SKS rifles are inferior to their military counterparts. Just why is that? I've got one marked with a factory 016 mark, the three Chinese characters on the receiver and stamped "made by Norinco-Poly". How is this one inferior to a military SKS? It looks the same except it's brand new and is stamped Norinco.

    Granted, it's never been fired so, for all I know it doesn't really work, and is probably painted with lead paint.

  2. #2
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    Norinco was the import company, your rifle with an arsenal code was probably made by/for a military or police contract and is as good as a SKS can get IMO . Commercial or refurb for export guns are usually a mixmaster of scrubbed parts and lack any military acceptance stamps, this normally makes them less collectible to serious collectors.
    Last edited by mriddick; 03-06-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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  3. #3
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    'Cuz it's Chinese junk. Just like my Poly and Norinco M-14s and my MAK90. Also a forum member Gun Addict who is currently in San Diego at Marine Basic. I'll stack my crap and buddy up against any and let the best win. Politics are the main issue, not products. I'll climb off my soapbox now.
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  4. #4
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    They may be inferior to a collector unless they saw some combat or have capture papers, but definatly arent inferior by function. I have over 500 rounds through mine without 1 problem whatsoever.

  5. #5
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    They are not inferior. I do not buy Chinese guns because I have other interests.

  6. #6
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    my ndm-86 is far from inferior.
    I dont like the chinese govt, but if i wanted a military dragunov, it was either spend approx $4k on a chinese one or $10k+ on a russian one. That was a pretty easy decision.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Crusher View Post
    'Cuz it's Chinese junk. Just like my Poly and Norinco M-14s and my MAK90. Also a forum member Gun Addict who is currently in San Diego at Marine Basic. I'll stack my crap and buddy up against any and let the best win. Politics are the main issue, not products. I'll climb off my soapbox now.
    The polytech M14S is the best of all Commercial M14 copies. A MAK 90 is commercial. The issue is full auto. Have no use for a semi auto AK except my Zastava M76 in 8 Mauser. It is issue, semi auto only. IMHO Gary

  8. #8

    Default

    I thought the chinese SKS was considered inferior because they have pressed barrels instead of screwed in.

    Deros
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  9. #9
    Dr. Johnny Fever Guest

    Default

    My shooter buds who own both the pressed-in and screwed-in barrel types tell me their pressed-in guns are slightly more accurate. I have no first-hand experience, though, so YMMV.

    Besides, AKs have pressed-in barrels and no one seems to mind...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deros View Post
    I thought the chinese SKS was considered inferior because they have pressed barrels instead of screwed in.Deros
    Only the later one's had pressed in barrels.
    In the Hard Woods up North.

  11. #11
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    chinese sks and ak mac 90's are well put together firearms... the m14 had a few quirks with fit of the bolt on some, but they also had the best receivers ever made ... essentially made of 5100 tool steel which is far superior to any ordnance steel used in the usa... people who scoff at chinese weapons usually have little knowledge in the gun world... thats my opinion anyway

  12. #12
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    IMHO, the whole "pressed vs threaded" barrel thing is basically a purely academic, and pointless, argument. Given a chromium plated bore and chamber, and absent some sort of catastrophic damage, it seems to me that a barrel would be about the very last thing that anyone would be likely to "need" to replace. I have trouble seriously imagining somebody having the assets in free time and ammunition to actually wear-out an SKS's barrel in his own lifetime, especially if they started out with a NIB weapon.

    I've owned and shot a good many different makes of SKS carbine over the years and have come to the conclusion that from a purely functional standpoint the Chinese-made examples are at least the equal of any. Personally, I chose to keep a particular Norinco/Poly-made commercial model over several more "collectable" examples of the breed because it has repeatedly demonstrated markedly superior accuracy and perfect functionality in my hands. I've owned it for over twenty years now, and run at least 10K rds of assorted surplus and milpsec commercial ammo through it with no problems whatsoever.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kf4zra View Post
    my ndm-86 is far from inferior.
    I dont like the chinese govt, but if i wanted a military dragunov, it was either spend approx $4k on a chinese one or $10k+ on a russian one. That was a pretty easy decision.
    I'm with kf4zra, for the price its a no brainer. But that said, I will stack my Norinco NDMs up against an SVD any-day. I apologize in advance to those who say they're Chinese junk.

  14. #14
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    I'm getting the feeling nothing makes some happier then defending their stuff from nonexsistant attacks
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  15. #15
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    The Chinese make fabulous Military weapons and having fought against the troops that used them I have a pretty good idea of what I am saying. Just because a country is not a country in the same area of manufacturing as we are some people degrade there products. The only guns I have seen that were less than exceptable was the Chinese first batch of winchester 97 shotgun replicas. The people that talk about silly items like pressed in verses pinned barrels or stamped parts verses milled just do not have a back ground in collecting and useing Military firearms. WW2 brought out the best in manufacturing in all of the countries that were involved. The Germans did quite well with stamped guns and so did the Soviets. The US had the grease gun and also went to stampings to save materials and time in manufacturing. So fellows do a little studying before you make statements here on this boards which is primarilly a collector boards not a bubba boards. This boards has some of the best contributors from all over the globe

  16. #16
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    To bring the thread back to Makist's original inquiry, I'd just wanna say what I usually do when discussing ChiCom "commercial" SKSs: Fixed magazine carbines with Chinese lettering, other characters, arsenal cartouches (stamped onto receivers; to the left or right of the serial and placement tells its own story) fall into a single category, PLA-issue. They are milsurp weapons. Besides them we find many other fixed magazine carbines with military features (bayonets, lugs, residual lugs) bearing serial numbers only. We "think" these fall into a second category, militia-issue. They will show all the usual late (usually stamped) features, and often are fitted w/ pinned barrels. And if you look to the serial number you will often see "91," "92," or "93" beginning the number stamped in a slightly larger font, almost as an afterthought. We "think" these denote the calendar years of 1991-93 in which the particular sample was removed from stores and tossed into a shipping crate destined for the North American commerical market. Finally, we encounter lots of carbines that are set into non-standard furniture, accommodate QD AK-style magazines, and the like. It is this latter group we call "commercials" as they plainly were made up to appeal to us. "Paratroopers" nearly all began as rifles of the first category above, PLA=issue.

    To return to militia-issues for just one moment, they were - by and large - manufactured in multipurpose factories not specializing in small arms, and certainly not in the larger state plants rather we "think" they were made up for local distribution in times of emergency. When you figure how many folks in a nation of over one billion souls might be called upon to take up arms to protect ruling circles we are indeed speaking of a very large number of weapons. Arguably there are many more of these remaining in stores back on the mainland, many. Wouldn't it be great to import several hundred thousands just for old time's sake?

    Notice I didn't use the words "NORINCO" or "PolyTechnologies" above. No need. That issue is adequately dealt with elsewhere at this forum.

    That's it in a nut shell.

  17. #17
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    Default

    My question wasn't phrased all that clear but, i think it has been answered anyway. I was interested strictly in the difference between Chinese commercial market SKS's and Chinese surplus Military SKS's. Several times I have read that the SKS's that were made for commercial export were in some manner inferior to those made for their own military. Since the SKS I have is marked Norinco and has never been used I assumed that it was a commercial model made solely for sale to the U.S. gun buying public.

    So, from what I think I understand from comments above is that, some Chinese SKS's originally intended for military/police used were grabbed off the production line, stamped "Norinco" and shipped off to the imperialists in the United States for some quick bucks. And then, there were other Chinese SKS rifles that were put together out of misc. spare and scrubbed parts to create a different type of commercial rifle which is sometimes considered inferior to other Chinese SKS's because it is more of a mutt than a purebred?

    Sorry to make this so long and convoluted and thank you to all who responded.

  18. #18
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    IMO chances are they weren't pulled off the production line but rather pulled from storage at various depots around the country as China rushed to put as many of these older firearms as they could unto the export market. Most you find were made well before 1986 when most of the Chinese SKS's started coming in.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    IMO chances are they weren't pulled off the production line but rather pulled from storage at various depots around the country as China rushed to put as many of these older firearms as they could unto the export market. Most you find were made well before 1986 when most of the Chinese SKS's started coming in.
    Ah, OK, pulled out of storage, that makes sense. Not all surplus is necessarily used, making it New old stock, I don't know why that didn't occur to me before. Thanks again for helping me join the ranks of the right thinking cadres.

  20. #20
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    We here tend to think like the westerners we are. The Chinese don't think like us or produce weapons in the manner we do. Everything there is state run and controlled ESPECIALLY weapons production. There are no private "commercial" producers of military rifles in China all are state run and state approved or owned by the PLA and various high ranking generals. There are differences though in the plants which produce weapons. Some are very large, and some are very small and many are medium in size. They are spread all over China. So there are bound to be some very minor differences in the weapons produced. Back when SKS rifles were being sold in the U.S. there were many importers importing rifles from China. The Chinese sold what they had in storage, and when there was a specific request for a different variation ( short barreled "para trooper" ) Ect. they simply modified the rifles they had in storage to meet the orders.

    So although the rifles were modified for commercial sale to importers in the U.S. the rifles came from military stockpiles and were modified in military facilities.

    So here is the question if the Chinese take a SKS rifle which is in military storage and send it to a state run armory to have the barrel shortened for sale in the U.S. does this make the rifle "commercially" produced. IMHO the answer is no.
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  21. #21
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    Jimmy C is right and i might add that all Chinese sks carbines are made from Military produced parts period!!! what happened was that once the complete carbines were sold a huge amount of left over parts were offered. The parts by themselves were of no real value for quick sale. The importers asked the Chinese to assemble the parts for complete units to sell them quicker. These guns were assembled for commercial sales. Some were miss matched parts, some were in commercial specifications like 30 rd clips and short farmers companion and so called paratrooper models, sniper models and parade models. these were not built for the Chinese goverment but for the importer. I hope that clears this up. Any of the serious collectors here can tell the commercial from the Military by the features and markings. but in fact none of the basic parts are commercial except any commercial adaptations from the original. like conversions to 30 round magazine, shortning the barrels, special stocks, adding sniper scopes and chroming or plating parts. these are all commercial reworks and are not considered to be collectable but are shooters and for the guys that enjoy them for what they are




    Quote Originally Posted by JIMMY C View Post
    We here tend to think like the westerners we are. The Chinese don't think like us or produce weapons in the manner we do. Everything there is state run and controlled ESPECIALLY weapons production. There are no private "commercial" producers of military rifles in China all are state run and state approved or owned by the PLA and various high ranking generals. There are differences though in the plants which produce weapons. Some are very large, and some are very small and many are medium in size. They are spread all over China. So there are bound to be some very minor differences in the weapons produced. Back when SKS rifles were being sold in the U.S. there were many importers importing rifles from China. The Chinese sold what they had in storage, and when there was a specific request for a different variation ( short barreled "para trooper" ) Ect. they simply modified the rifles they had in storage to meet the orders.

    So although the rifles were modified for commercial sale to importers in the U.S. the rifles came from military stockpiles and were modified in military facilities.

    So here is the question if the Chinese take a SKS rifle which is in military storage and send it to a state run armory to have the barrel shortened for sale in the U.S. does this make the rifle "commercially" produced. IMHO the answer is no.

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