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  1. #1
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    Dec 1969
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    Default German Parts - 1895-1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedes

    http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=161977

    Dutchman
    Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum

    1439 Posts
    Posted - 04/26/2006 : 6:54:36 PM
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    Since I keep teasing that I'm working on this particular aspect of the Oberndorf Swedes, I guess I should put up or shut up. I don't know all there is to know about this topic so you all can feel free to add your 2 cents. We're all going to learn as we go on this one.

    Henceforth and forevermore there will be 2 tiers of Oberndorf Swedes. Those with 100% German parts and those that are 100% Swedish issue, i.e. rebuilds and/or replacement parts. Naturally, the 100% German-made Oberndorf rifles and carbines will be worth more as it relates to originality. Those that are rebuilds are still 100% Swedish issue and correct, but there is a difference and that difference will manifest as $$$$$$$.

    When it comes to identifying German versus Swedish stocks on the 1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedes we've already done the homework:
    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/german.html The 1895 carbines will be marked similarly.

    The metal parts -- that's a different story that's still unfolding.

    You'll notice that strange font stamp. Its German in origin. The Swede bolts don't have it. This is from 1895 carbine s/n 8044.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...3946_f8044.jpg
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    This is the bolt from 1895 Oberndorf carbine s/n 11959. It has the same stamp on the backside of the root of the bolt handle.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...057_i11959.jpg
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    What the heck is this? s/n 11959.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...519_j11959.jpg
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    From s/n 9865 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Huh? Yep, that's a 2 stamp turned upside down to make a 5. Once might be a mistake, but both these carbines are so marked.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...4436_j9865.jpg
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    See that crown/M stamp on the magazine release button? All German screw heads are thusly stamped. The Swedish are not.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...725_q11959.jpg
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    Ejector box screw on s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...4956_d6407.jpg
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    Guard screw from s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...5129_h6407.jpg
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    There are other areas and parts that can be identified specifically as German on the Oberndorf Swedes. I'll save those for the pending webpage.

    Feel free to add photos to this thread as long as they pertain to German-made parts identification on 1895-1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedish Mausers.

    Dutchman


    foudufoot
    Posted - 04/26/2006 : 10:51:27 PM
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    Thanks Dutch!! Very nice thread. I'll go back and check my 1899 tomorrow for some of these markings, although I suspect that Mauser may have stopped stamping some of these after 1895. I do not recall seeing the M stamp on the bolt when I cleaned it.


    mauserdoc
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 01:35:42 AM
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    Indeed thanks! I don't have the energy to take guns appart tonight, but have looked at the 4 obies I have in the lockup here. I don't see any "m's" on the floor plate, release, or bolt. Will take these 4 appart and have a look at the stocks; This is very interesting stuff and certainly creates a new niche of collecting. There are obies and then, there are obies... Have 2 other all matching ones stored elsewhere--will have to see what they look like--it is not good enough now to just have an obie with a crown--apparently need to "M" as well to say that it is all german?


    Swedeman
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:07:26 AM
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    Foudufoot / MD brought up a point ... are we specifically talking about 1895 M94 carbines having the "M" stamp on the bolts (and other small parts for that matter)? Do we have any definitive evidence that they also stamped the bolts on the 1899 and 1900 M96 Mauser Oberndorfs, too?

    What are the differences between stampings on M94's vs. M96's?


    jebber
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:33:12 AM
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    Interesting. Hopefully you get a lot of data & feedback. I'll have to figure out where my MO Swedes are & take some pics.


    USMCsean
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 4:38:41 PM
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    It is very interesting, but I noticed something very minor. How can that be an upside down 2? If it was upside down, it would look like a reverse 5, and to me, it doesn't.


    Dutchman
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 5:43:02 PM
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    Good point. See what I mean?


    foudufoot
    Posted - 04/27/2006 : 10:13:57 PM
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    I checked the bolt on my 1899 OB. It has the same marking as your 1895. The extractor is also stamped with as small Mauser crown.


    Nyloc
    Posted - 04/29/2006 : 11:45:27 PM
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    This thread got me all intrigued. So i dismantled mine and I can confirm there is another 1899 M96 with an M stamped at the rear of the stock by the rear screw hole. Interestingly the fonts are different in the stamps on the wood and the receiver. I also found the following symbol on the outside rear of the magazine, with what is similar to an M but slightly different. The obvious non-german parts on mine ;( are the mag follower, barrel, sprung retainer on the rear band and the screws if no marking at all=non-german.

    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/ny...7_DSCF1104.jpg
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    74.05 KB


    highestangel
    Posted - 05/06/2006 : 3:11:46 PM
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    So far I found no "M" stamps on my M96, 1900 Oberndorf. However, I haven't disassembled the bolt, yet. Thanks for this bit of info, that's great work Dutch. Michael


    milsurphunter
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 10:17:54 AM
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    Just found this post, my 1900 Oberndorf Swede m96 has its original german stock on it. The gun is over all in good condition, it has seen use for sure, the stock is battered and has a crack repared with a dowel in the grip area. someone replaced the stock disk with a blank(bummer) the metal on this german made rifle is not as shiny and pretty as my CG 96(looks very good) this obie has that been there and done that look. I only paid $100 otd for it so i am very happy the sn is in the 44xxx range. All parts that are numbered Match!! other than it not being a typical swede supermodel M96 i am very happy with it.


    milsurphunter
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 11:56:59 AM
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    How did you come to the conclusion that the receiver was replaced? the serial does fall it to the above mentioned range "19,000/60,000 range" there is a CG in front of the SN on the receiver. The stock according to the information above does tie into a german gun, which matches the serial numbers on the rceiver and other parts. All of the parts on the rifle do have the typical last 3 numbers of the serial on it.


    swede
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:16:43 PM
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    My mistake , I thought I read 44xx .

    By the way , that would be O.G. in front of the serial number . Olaf Gibson was the inspector at the Carl Gustaf factory from 1898/1902 .


    milsurphunter
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:24:26 PM
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    Whew, i thought i had a bastard child in the lot!! thanks for the clarification swede.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2006426183946_f8044.jpg   2006426184057_i11959.jpg   2006426184519_j11959.jpg   2006426184436_j9865.jpg   2006426184725_q11959.jpg   2006426184956_d6407.jpg  

    2006426185129_h6407.jpg   2006429234347_DSCF1104.jpg  
    Last edited by Carcano; 09-13-2007 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Old Europe
    Posts
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    Default 1898 Carbine Screws

    It so nicely fits into the previous thread, like mortised... ;-)
    http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=190998

    * * *

    JK
    Posted - 10/27/2006 : 10:28:58 PM
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    Dutchman,
    I thought you would be interested in the screws. These are the first Swedish Mauser screws I have come across that have been stamped. Any idea what the "M" stands for?
    Also the inside of the nosecap is stamped with "CG" identical to the one pictured on your website.

    Best, John
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/JK...7222157_df.jpg
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    204.13 KB


    Dutchman
    Posted - 10/27/2006 : 10:47:42 PM
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    German screws. We don't know what the M stands for but it shows up only on German parts and stocks. To be 100% German your Oberndorf 1895 carbine should have this stamp on all the screws.

    Seem to recall starting a webpage dealing with this but can't find it at the moment.


    Dutchman
    Posted - 10/27/2006 : 10:54:39 PM
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    These images are from 1895 Oberndorf s/n 6407.

    The screws in your photo are not Carl Gustaf 1898 screws. They are 1895 Oberndorf screws.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...5243_d6407.jpg
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    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...5258_f6407.jpg
    Download Attachment:
    19.53 KB
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...5334_h6407.jpg
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    26.62 KB


    Dutchman
    Posted - 10/27/2006 : 10:59:48 PM
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    Lest you think the above are anomalies. This one is 1895 Oberndorf carbine s/n 11959.
    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...646_p11959.jpg
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    http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Du...729_q11959.jpg
    Magazine floorplate release button....
    Download Attachment:
    23.91 KB

    Dutchman



    swede
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 09:13:15 AM
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    The Swede arsenals are known for recycling any useable parts , including screws . I have 2 M-96's & each has one Mauser screw marked like yours . They are recycled . So , it is possible that the Swede arsenal used the Mauser screws , but I would not think so many were used on one carbine . More like Bubba added them from a discarded Mauser carbine stock , since he has polished & reblued the receiver & replaced the bolt . We will never know for sure.


    foudufoot
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 7:10:25 PM
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    Originally posted by Dutchman
    We don't know what the M stands for but it shows up only on German parts and stocks.
    Dutchman
    M for Mauser?


    swede
    Posted - 10/28/2006 : 8:11:00 PM
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    Most likely Mauser.


    MP78
    Posted - 10/29/2006 : 11:37:41 AM
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    I think bear8mm done a nice job on showing different crown stamp shapes too. It appears the stamps used on Obies have a different shape than the ones on CG and Husqvarna manufactured parts. The parts Dutchman has shown also have the Crown stamp shaped like the ones used on other Oberndorf manufactured parts. BTW I think bear has the drawings in the FAQ section on the forum he hosts...Jim


    swede
    Posted - 10/29/2006 : 12:28:27 PM
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    These Mauser crowns on screws , etc. are differant from the normal sagging base crowns seen on other Mauser parts . These are " smaller " & have a tiny flat bottom base with a wide flair to the crown . Not like any of the other Mauser , Carl Gustaf or Husqvarna crowns .

    See the photos above . The screw crowns are flat bottomed compared to the Mauser crowns on other parts .


    MP78
    Posted - 10/29/2006 : 1:12:19 PM
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    I've looked at the ones on the ejector box's screws and the one on the butt plate and they looked round bottomed to me. A couple of the others do look a little flat and then one looks a bit deforemed but my point was that the round bottom crown shape can help collectors recognize Oberndorf parts not specifically screws. You may find Mauser produced parts on CG's and Husqies as well vis versa. We may have an all matching rifle with replacement parts made by different manufacturers. These rifles would be correct but not all original. I have one rifle that I beleive to be as issued. In other words completely original without any replacemnet parts... P.S. I should say that's all the parts that are present. The rear sight components were removed as well as the front sight blade.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20061027222157_df.jpg   20061027225243_d6407.jpg   20061027225258_f6407.jpg   20061027225334_h6407.jpg   20061027225646_p11959.jpg   20061027225729_q11959.jpg  

    Last edited by Carcano; 09-13-2007 at 01:54 PM.

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