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Thread: System Carle

  1. #46
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    I will try to disassemble next week.

    Here a litle movie houw the bolt works: https://www.facebook.com/riflecollec...0789707168590/
    Last edited by Peter96; 12-08-2016 at 05:27 PM.
    Always try to find new "Militairy Bolt-action rifles (Europian/blackpowder)"

  2. #47
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    Here is the reply from the Russian guys.

    4 ЛР 164 П. ЗАК. = 4 line company, 164 Zakatalsk infantry regiment

    More info on the order of battle in 1875: http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/rusarm-org-1875.php
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  3. #48
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    The Carle was used on the Caucasus front during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78. Here are some rare photographs of the rifle in the hands of the troops; some of the soldiers carry Berdan 2 and even muzzleloaders. Source: http://humus.livejournal.com/3906322.html (Rionsk detachment at the Caucasus Front, 1877-78)










    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

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  5. #49
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    Thanks for the good info Nick. I have info about the Carl and Berdan rifles, in Russian language so nog possible for me to read.

    Very nice pic's also, super!
    Always try to find new "Militairy Bolt-action rifles (Europian/blackpowder)"

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter96 View Post
    .. I have info about the Carl and Berdan rifles, in Russian language so not possible for me to read.
    Send it to me, I can translate it - if not the whole thing, I can give you at least a summary.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  7. #51
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    The most detailed information on Carle and its cartridge is in this book (two, actually - a book with descriptions and a picture album) from 1904 by the famous gun designer Fyodorov. I also may have a contemporary Russian manual for the rifle, but I haven't seen it in a long time, so I am not sure if I still have it...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fyodorov 1R.jpg  
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  8. #52
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    Here is a diagram of the bolt and it's components, hope it helps. I can send you a bigger picture/higher resolution if need be

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter96 View Post
    Here a little movie how the bolt works: https://www.facebook.com/riflecollec...0789707168590/
    Thanks!

    Are you planning on shooting it? Developing the cartridge for the Carle turned out to be a real bitch, the Russians went through tens of different designs.

    Another question - is yours counter bored?

    With many rifles the paper case wouldn't separate from the bullet, which caused its erratic flight and total lack of accuracy. This was found to be the case only in rifles with "normal" caliber" of 6 lines. Rifles with barrels measuring 6.1 and 6.2 lines didn't have such problem. The solution was to counterbore the muzzle approximately 8 to 10 lines (0.8" to 1") deep to a diameter of 6.5 lines (0.65") This ensured separation of the case from the bullet within the first 15-20 paces.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  10. #54
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have always problems to photograph barrels as you can see. Itīs just a normal barrel with 4 landīs and grooveīs. Shining like a mirror (sorry for the bad picture). No intention to shoot, although..
    Always try to find new "Militairy Bolt-action rifles (Europian/blackpowder)"

  11. #55
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    I can't tell from the picture if it is counterbored. This was done only on bores measuring less than 6.1 lines.

    You ain't gonna shoot it? Then you don't really need it... I can trade you all these needle guns for the Carle, they are shootable:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dreyse, Chassepot & Carcano 2.jpg  
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  12. #56
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1785929Click image for larger version. 

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    Always try to find new "Militairy Bolt-action rifles (Europian/blackpowder)"

  13. #57
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    Awesome! Thank you.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  14. #58
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    Remarkable troop photos!
    "Get your facts first and then you can distort 'em as much as you please"--Mark Twain

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    The Karle rifle was also used during the Russian conquest of Central Asia, almost exclusively by the Caucasian troops and Cossacks. But before the Karle was issued, they were eqipped with Model 1860 Cossack Rifles. Here are a couple photos of Cossack soldiers that received the Cross of St. George with their obr 1860 rifles.

    NCO Durmanov of the Ural Cossacks, captured Yani-Kurgan in what is now Kazakhstan
    Click image for larger version. 

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    NCO Mostovshchikov of the Ural Cossacks
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  16. #60
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    Since this thread is including unusual Russian rifles, here's photos of one of the favorites of my collection: a Peabody "Cossack rifle." It is on caliber "6 linie" Krnka CENTERFIRE.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1010059 lo.jpg   Peabody Cossack rifle 2 lo.jpeg  
    Last edited by scooter2; 03-11-2017 at 05:03 PM.

  17. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2 View Post
    It is on caliber "6 linie" Krnka rimfire.
    The 6-line Krnka cartridge is NOT rimfire. Are you sure of the chambering? It could be the Swiss 18 mm rimfire, especially since they had the Peabody rifles and the Russians didn't.

    Below are the pictures of 6-line Krnka and 18 mm Milbank-Amsler (middle cartridge on the right picture):
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Krnka Cartridges 1.jpg   Krnka Cartridges 2.jpg   Krnka Cartridges 3.jpg   18 mm Milbank Amsler 1.jpg   Swiss Rimfire.jpg  
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  18. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    The 6-line Krnka cartridge is NOT rimfire. Are you sure of the chambering? It could be the Swiss 18 mm rimfire, especially since they had the Peabody rifles and the Russians didn't.

    Below are the pictures of 6-line Krnka and 18 mm Milbank-Amsler (middle cartridge on the right picture):
    Nick,
    You're right, as usual -- this Peabody rifle is centerfire. I had not had it apart in years.

  19. #63
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    Have you tried to chamber a Krnka cartridge? The rear sight doesn't look Russian, any markings on the rifle?

    Very interesting gun, could you post more pictures?
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  20. #64
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    I do not have a Krnka cartridge. I determined the caliber by measuring the bore diameter, and the diameter of the chamber at the base and rim locations. This rifle is likely a trials or sample rifle. It was made using a standard "Roumanian Model" frame, with a factory serial number at the end of that model's production -- so circa 1869. The barrel has Belgian proofs on the bottom. The stocks are new made, configured for the Russian preference. Photos are added here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Peabody Cossack rifle 4 lo.jpg   P1030061 lo.jpg   P1030060 lo.jpg  

  21. #65
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    Awesome! I have Krnkas and I have a Romanian Peabody, bot not their hybrid!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Romanian Peabody 1.jpg   Romanian Peabody 4.jpg   Romanian Peabody 3.jpg  
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  22. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    ...The rear sight doesn't look Russian...
    it has the same rear sight as the obr.1860 cossack rifles i posted earlier

    Attachment 2043202

  23. #67
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    Very nice "Roumanian Model." I have as nice, and also one in .50-60RF -- basically a 2-band rifle with the Romanian rear sight, but graduated for the .50 cartridge. A friend has a .45 mint one that actually has the Romanian "ARMATA ROMANA/Modelu 1867" marking.

  24. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyten View Post
    it has the same rear sight as the obr.1860 cossack rifles i posted earlier

    Attachment 2043202
    Can't see your attachment...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cossack 6-line.jpg  
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

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