Husqvarna .358 Norma Magnum Purchase

[TWalker]

I just put my first commercial Husqvarna rifle on lay-away this week. It is a beautiful gun, about 98% condition, in .358 Norma Magnum caliber. I was hoping that someone might be able to tell me the model and decade it was made, and any other information you would care to share. The barrel is stamped Husqvarna, followed by another Swedish word and the letters AB., then the caliber. The serial number is 250710A. The action has a small push button bolt release on the left side and a sliding 2 position safety on the right. The rear sight is a 3 blade express type with a hooded ramp front. The stock is nicely figured light colored European ? walnut with a schnabel tp, no Monte Carlo cut, and simple cut checkering. Thanks for any replies

[kriggevaer]

Congratulations on a very nice find SBHVA will know better than I, but from your description it sounds like a Model 1651 Special. Not common at all. Pictures would be great when you get the rifle. The .358 Norma Magnum is an excellent cartridge. In my humble opinion, it is one of the best medium bore cartridges ever produced. However, the Husqvarna and Schultz & Larsen rifles were, I believe, the only factory produced rifles chambered for the cartridge. And, the .338 Win Mag pretty much beat it in the popularity competition over here in the USA. Brass isn't cheap, but reloading dies can be had from Hornady for a reasonable price.
Bullet selection is a little on the sparse side for the .35
(9.1mm), but there are enough that you should be able to find one that really suits your rifle.
When you get it, pull the action out of the stock and check for cracks/splits in the webbing of the inletting. The .358 Norma Mag has some robust recoil, but is plenty manageable. Good find - there is a .358 Norma Mag in Wisconsin that keeps calling my name:D

[sbhva]

TWalker;

Congratulations and welcome to the forum and the brotherhood of Swedish firearms ownership. Nothing like jumping into the deep end of the pool by finding one of the most desireable Husqvarna rifles. There are literally dozens of members that are very jealous at the moment. Whatever happens, just don't let that one get out of your grasp,in other words, visit it often to make sure it stays on lay-away with your name on it

Your rifle was made in 1962. The Swedish model designation for it is 1651, but in the US there were 3 "official" models offered by Tradewinds. They were 561, 562, and 563. Yours sounds like a model 561. The gun uses the 1640 action with a couple of changes so they gave it a new model name. The magazine should have a rubber pad on the front wall to keep the bullets from flattening due to recoil, and the barrel is a little longer at 65 cm versus 60 cm (23.75") for the standard 1640. Still, the gun weighs about 7 lbs so the recoil will be stout, but more of a shove than a hit.

Kriggevaer gives good advice about checking the stock. But don't panic, this is a common problem with Husqvarna stocks and easily fixed. In fact your stock will most likely have a cross bolt through the webbing area to prevent splitting. The factory added the crossbolt on the 1650's and higher grade 1640's to address the problem.

Please post some pics of the rifle when you get it home.

[9.3x57]

This one is the "Holy Grail" to a lot of collectors.

SBHVA, know about how many were actually made?

[TWalker]

Thanks to all for your replies. I appreciate the information. I will get the rifle out of layaway in about a week. At that time I'll post some pictures. I plan to mount one of two scopes I have available. Either a Leupold 1.5-5 VXIII or a Berlin Pecar 3-9. I'm leaning toward the Leupold due to the generous eye relief and because of their lifetime warranty. The Pecar is great, but since they are now closed, repairs might be a problem. I have a lot of older 250 grain .35 caliber bullets I bought at a closeout and will probably handload these as soon as I get a set of dies and some brass. I plan to use it mostly for deer hunting but for sure it will be my bear rifle in the future, even this year if I can get some ammo ready before the season closes.
Best regards,
T. Walker

[kriggevaer]

I would definitely go for the Leupold, especially on a bear gun. The Pecars are great scopes, but they are getting a little old now and it would probably work out better on a lighter recoiling rifle.
Although the .35 caliber bullets are not as popular as many of the other calibers, I find them in gun shop bargain bins a lot. A while back I bought several boxes of Barnes 300 grain for seven something a box. These are the old Barnes that have the jacket thickness printed on the label.

With moderate loads, the .358 NM would be great for deer. But, as you well know, that cartridge will handle anything in the Western Hemisphere and just about anything in the rest of the world.

[Float Pilot]

I have been handloading for the 358 Norma Mag for about 20 years now. It is a great cartridge that suffered from bad marketing here in the US. They should have called it the 360 Norma Super Magnum or 360 Norma Alaskan Magnum and then they would have had the market.

I use a M-70 Winchester that was rechambered for 358 N M. I also use a Leupold 3x 9 scope for its clarity and light gathering.

Mine will shoot 3 inch (75mm) groups at 300 meters using Speer 250 grain spitzer soft points. For some reason my particular rifle likes IMR4350 powder. But the factory Norma 250 grain loads are also very accurate and have a fairly good muzzle velocity.

Mine has harvested more than a few moose at long range and in dense brush.

I would love to find a Husky chambered in 358 NM, but I would have to fight all the other real oldtime Alaskan riflemen over it...

[kriggevaer]

Hej Float Pilot,
Maybe you can confirm this - I remember, in the dim and cob webbed thing I call memory, that the Alaskan guides and hunters were really gung ho for the .358 NM when it first showed up. I remember reading about some Mauser 98 rifles built around it for bush use.

Absolutely right about the marketing. Three Scandinavian cartridges, 7x61 Sharpe & Hart, .308 Norma Mag, and .358 Norma Mag were ahead of the curve, but lack of promotion and American manufacturers chambering the rifle pretty much stopped their progress. Of course, the 7x61 S&H was designed by Phil Sharpe and Richard Hart, but Sharpe took it to Norma and Schultz & Larsen to make it a reality.

Anyway, great cartridge.:D

[Float Pilot]

Yes, the 358 was pretty popular with guides years ago. The rifles were lighter and less expensive than a 375HH and had almost as much power. They found themselves being replaced by the 338 Winchester mag as time went on.

The cartridge is still mentioned on a regular basis on the Alaska Outdoors forum shooting web site. I personally would rather carry a 358 Norma over a 338 Winchester.

In fact we are now see quite a few 9.3 x 62mm Mausers being bought by hunters and guides who used to be in the 358 Norma Market. They are buying CZ rifles which currently have reasonable prices. Althouth, the 9.3 x62 is still not a 358 Norma Mag, it is really more like a good 35 Whelen load with a slight larger diameter bullet.

The 308 Norma mag was my first magnum rifle. Built on a 1903A3 action . The 308 Norma Mag was the 300 Win Mag, before there was a 300 win mag. They should have named it something different. People confused the 358 NM with the much less powerful 358 Winchester and the 308 Norma Mag with the 308 Winchester. If they would have called it the 300 Nordic Magnum or 300 Viking Mag,, or any thing else ,,they may have had a chance. The 300 Winchester mag has / had no advantage, other than good marketing...

There were several Husqvarna 30-06s around here when I was a kid. They were usually owned by folks with money and were something of a status symbol back in the 1960s.
Most of them have now been hunted with over the last 40-50 years and many have cracked stocks.

The rest of us had old surplus 7 x57mm Mausers, the occasional 6.5 swede carbine or an old surplus 1903 Springfield. None of which cost more than $35 back in those days.

The one Swiss family out the road had a couple Schmidt Rubin straight pulls they brought with them back in the 1930s. They only shot two or three shots a year to make their limited ammo last. Now their grand daughter is a big time singer with an attitude...

[kriggevaer]

Would that granddaughter be Jewel?

[Float Pilot]

Ja sure

[DK PHILLIPS]

pecar, ive ownd many and own three now:D, never had a failure of any kind, good eye releif for my 7 mag model 7000 with german claw mounts, the see through type, dobble set trigger :cool:and light weight 306's, never shot your cal.: only problem iv ever had with a pecar is you need to have an adj. rear base to get it centered then work from there , then use the adj to fine tune. or your crosshairs will be too far left or right:eek:. heigth isnt too much of a problem shems can to be used, but if it comes to that i usualy dont use te pecar on that pictular gun.<><:Dschool teacher

[Yukoner]

I have two 358 Norma Mags, one a Husqvarna that has been restocked and the barrel shortened to 23 inches,






and the other a Springfield 1903 fitted with an old Lyman 57S receiver sight.



I concur with everything float pilot has said about this great cartridge. Got my first one, another Husqvarna in 1969, and have never looked back.

Ted

[pbrennan]

Any 358 Norma mag owners care to give the rest of us a perspective on how the recoil is? The Husqvarna has a reputation for being "significant".
Ted, nice couple of rifles you have there.
Pat

[Northman]

Very nice rifles, the Husky's a beauty..............

[Yukoner]

Pat,

The recoil is about what you would expect in an 8 1/2 pound rifle, fairly sharp and punchy! I have never really been able to see much difference between it and my 375s.

It is, however, not nearly as bad as my 300 Win Mag mountain rifle, that weighs 7 3/4 all up, with scope, sling and three in the magazine. That one is a mittfull, especially off the bench! :eek:

Ted

[SD Hunter]

I have a Husqvarna 1900 Model in 358 Norma Mag. I also have a couple of 300 Win Mag in the 1900. All have Decellerator recoil pads. The 300 Mags are very comfortable, even off the bench. The 358 has definitely got more punch to it. Off the bench is uncomfortable, but hunting with it is really not bad. I hand load all of the ammunition for both rifles and I do not push the max loads. I have learned that they tend to be more accurate if I am a couple of steps under max. Also, I tend to enjoy the rifles more when not anticipating the recoil.

One of my 300 mags is has the looks of a real beater. The laquer has pealed off the stock and it has lots of scratchs and scrapes and dings - it was actually that way when I bought it, and I got a great deal on it. But it is amazing to shoot - consistently shoots 3/4" groups.
I hunt with this rifle every year and it is my go to rifle for carrying around the ranch.

The 358 is a very good looking rifle with a custom stock. It also shoots great groups, but I don't pack it around. It's a little much for long range shots on coyotes.

All in all, both are nice rifles and the recoil is not bad at all.

[DK PHILLIPS]

what you going to do with "old" unrepairable scope? nice stock on the first gun where did it come from?<><school teacher

[rnnhntr]

Hi:

I'm new here and just found this thread. I just picked up a Husqvarna in .358 Norma. The rifle has a 26-inch barrel, the alloy bottom metal, and a monte carlo stock with a black foreend tip. The stock has been refinished. It weighs right at 8 pounds with a 2.5x8 Leupold scope. The rifle has a Timney trigger and a Model 70-style safety has been added. Since I bought it as a mountain gun for elk and similar-sized critters, it should be about right. They are nice rifles, my wife's rifle is a trim .30-06 built on a 1640 action.

Dave

[Daryl S]

I owned a .358 Normal MAg back in early 1972 - a BRNO ZKK 602 that weighed 11 pounds with scope and loaded. I can't remember now, if that was 6 in the mag. + 1 in the chamber- or - 5 in the mag and 1 in the chamber - memory is failing me on that now.
: My rifle was a pussycat to shoot, though, but I suspect might have 'some' recoil in a lighter package.
; I found my most accurate loading was with Speer's 250gr. Spitzer and 3031. Yeah, I know everyone these days wants to use 4350 or similar burn rates, but I tried 3031 to see if it would be accurate, like it surprised us in my 6mm Rem PHale TX1200 - I think that was the number. I had a 12 power scope mounted on the BRNO so I couldn't blame sight picture for poor groups.
: I loaded from the starting suggested load, to max, which was, I seem to recall, about 62.0gr. wihich turned out the best accuracy. There was a bit of room left, but it sure didn't hurt the shooting. This was 1973 mfg. IMR 3031. The velocity might have been around 2,750fps - can't remember. I do quite vividly remember shooting with Alex Bullman who was a retired rancher in BC, turned benchrest shooter. Alex and I shot a lot together, mostly .222's and full bores for me(.308 match rifles). Alex shot his light varmint 6x47mm while I shot the .358NM. I beat him group for group that day, all afternoon - 5 shot groups at 100 yards, at the Barnet club in Burnaby, BC- sometime spring 1974, I think it was. My best group was 5 in .087". I only shot when Alex fired as I couldn't read flags to save my soul. He was holding for the wind drift for each shot, 1/2 hole here, 1/2 hole there, while I shot straight through the conditions. My largest group was .268" or thereabouts. Yes I know - unbelievable, especially for a rifle that wouldn't group tigher than 1" with IMR4350.

[josquin]

...I do quite vividly remember shooting with Alex Bullman ...I beat him group for group that day, all afternoon - 5 shot groups at 100 yards, at the Barnet club in Burnaby, BC- sometime spring 1974, I think it was....

I fired my first high-powered rifle at Barnet around that time, maybe a few years later. I was up shooting my .22 and a little BP rifle and one of the guys I got chatting with offered me a couple of shots from his .340 Weatherby. I figured it might knock me around but it had a thick recoil pad and a muzzle brake (much to the discomfort of the neighbouring shooters, no doubt) and it was quite comfortable, even for a then-scrawny kid in his '20's.

I recall that at Barnet, anything much past 100 yards would be shooting uphill. I was always surprised that there weren't complaints about stray rounds landing in the SFU campus on top of the hill.

I bet your .358 was more accurate than that .340 I shot.

Stuart

[Daryl S]

We were flabergasted with the accurcy of that BRNO .358.
: Yeah - the uphill was really hard on the neck in prone shooting. 100 yards was bad enough. I started competition shooting there in 1973 with my old cousin and his cronies from the second war. Several were pilots. Ed flew a "Beaufighter in the Strike Wings" up in the North Sea on shipping.
: I use the BRNO for my first 'Match' rifle, shooting cast bullets and the pop-up peep and front bead for sights. I switched to a .375BRNO barrel on the same rifle that Ian Dingwall put on for me, again with cast and pop-up sight. Once putting together a .308 thumbhole match rifle with TX1200 barrel, I made Master and Top Master in UIT, BCRA/DCRA and intercub postals we all shot together on. Those were the days.
: The little Hungarian fellow built up a .505 Barnes Supreme on the .460 WTBY case. 600gr. Barnes at almost 2,900fps - spun me around like a weathercock. Seem to recall the load was something like 125gr. IMR3031 instead of the .460's 125gr. H4831 load. He bought a BRNO .375 for the action for this rifle. I gave him $100.00 for the new, unfired .375 barrel.
: I'd like to get a #3589 Lyman mould for the supposedly 280gr., but normally casting 290gr. bluff nose bullet. Too bad they're out of print.
: The .358 makes a nice big game rifle, that's for sure, although the only thing I shot with mine, were coyotes. The 280gr. Hornady's (or Speers) shot well and killed those yodel-dogs dead.

[30 Newton]

Hello Float Pilot,

I'm coming into this about six months late. having joined when I ran across some other Schultz & Larsen afficianados here. But your comments about the 308 Norma Magnum being replaced by newer, but rarely better IMHO cartridges, brought a smile
to my face. And what do you think a 308 Norma Mag is?? It is little more than a 30 Newton with a belt on it. Check the ballistics of the two cartridges in some of the older handloading guides and I think you will be surprised. They almost duplicate each other exactly. Some have even turned the belts off of 308 Norma Mag. brass to make Newton cases, though it isn't something I'd recommend. And how about the 358 Norma Mag.? I'm looking for some loading guides for the 35 Newton as I suspect that is another case of duplication. That's OK, I picked up another 140 cases of 7 X 61 Sharpe & Hart brass from Huntingtons ($18 per 20) for my Model 60 S&L last month only to see them come through headstamped "Norma Super 7 X 61". Yeah, right! If you believe that I've got a bridge across the Bering Strait I'll sell you.

Take care, 30 Newton

[AK_Riverman]

Thanks to all for your replies. I appreciate the information. I will get the rifle out of layaway in about a week. At that time I'll post some pictures. I plan to mount one of two scopes I have available. Either a Leupold 1.5-5 VXIII or a Berlin Pecar 3-9. I'm leaning toward the Leupold due to the generous eye relief and because of their lifetime warranty. The Pecar is great, but since they are now closed, repairs might be a problem. I have a lot of older 250 grain .35 caliber bullets I bought at a closeout and will probably handload these as soon as I get a set of dies and some brass. I plan to use it mostly for deer hunting but for sure it will be my bear rifle in the future, even this year if I can get some ammo ready before the season closes.
Best regards,
T. Walker

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and this in my first post. I have a Husqvarna 1640 rifle action that I bought last year and suprisingly it has no serial number that I can find anywhere on it.
Here is a description of the action: Husqvarna Crown trademark and the word SWEDEN stamped on the top of the receiver ring.
Proofmark and word Nitro stamped on the flat under receiver ring behind the recoil lug, (missing serial number).
Left Receiver wall is stamped with HVA ACTION-MADE IN SWEDEN
Trigger guard magazine feels light, must be some sort of alloy material.
All of the stamped markings are deep and very visible. Bolt has a magnum bolt face, magazine box easily accomodates medium magnum cartridges. Has a round bolt knob, magazine floorplate release button on inside of trigger guard, no bolt safety shroud, no adjustment screws on trigger and the bolt release is the little button release type on the left side of the action. D&T for both scope mounts and receiver sight (right side).
Does anyone know if it was a common occurence during the manufacturing process to not stamp a serial number?
Additionally I am in the process of purchasing a Husqvarna Model 1651 with 1640 action in caliber 358 Norma Magnum. I would like to have the barreled action installed in either a good quality classic style walnut stock that is designed to soak up recoil or a fiberglass one. Any recommendations on wood gunstock makers that sell their stocks for a reasonable price? Also considering having a barrel band installed rather than using a sling swivel stud on the forearm of the stock. Planning on hunting with the rifle up here in Alaska occassionally. Thanks
T. Walker,
Was wondering if you are still planning on posting a few photos of your 1651 here on your thread, sure would be nice to see. Thanks in advance.

[AK_Riverman]

Just to satisfy my curiousity, does any forum member know what the BR stands for on the 9.1x64mmBR? Thankyou

[iskra]

AK-Riverman,
First I happily note all the great information and genuine expertise I see in these posts regarding the 358 Norma. But as to your question, could your inquiry be for the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke, a .365 bullet diameter rebaited rim cartridge? If this does not put you in the right direction, I hesitate to comment further here as possibly too far afield from the subject at hand.

[AK_Riverman]

iskra,
The gentleman that I am purchasing the Husqvarna Model 1651 from referred to it as a 9.1x64mmBR in his description of the rifle along side the 358 NM nomenclature. When I used the Google search engine to do further research the metric nomenclature came up as 358 Norma Magnum. Initally it showed up on the Wikipedia website. Looking at the cartridge description that was provided on the same site again I now see the connection to the 9.1 (bullet diameter) x 64mm (case length) BR (case type). What do you think?

Case type: Belted rimless, bottleneck Bullet diameter:.359 (9.12) Neck diameter:.388 (9.45) Shoulder diameter:.490 (12.45) Base diameter:.513 in (13.03 mm) Rim diameter:.531 in (13.5 mm) Case length: 2.520 (64.0) Overall length: 3.346 (85) Primer type: Large rifle magnum

[kriggevaer]

Hi AK_Riverman,

I believe the 9.1x64mmBR nomenclature probably came from a technical specification and at least in Scandinavia this nomenclature was not used to refer to the cartridge. All of the Norma factory literature that I have calls it the .358 Norma Magnum and all of the Scandinavian hunting and shooting magazine articles I have on the cartridge have never mentioned the metric designaton. Although technically correct and necessary, the metric nomenclature doesn't represent anything other than the .358 NM.

[AK_Riverman]

kriggevaer,
Thankyou Sir for your clarification on the metric nomenclature.
Just read on the Norma website why one of the Enger brothers in the early 1900's chose the name Norma for their company. (Never knew that before).
Getting back to another inquiry I made on my first post, was it a common occurence for Husqvarna rifle actions not to be stamped with a serial number on the receiver? heard from another source on a different forum that it was quite possible that the serial number was stamped on the barrel instead. Do you have any information on their serial number stamping practices or know where I can read up on this subject further? Thanks in advance.

[kriggevaer]

Husqvarna stamped the serial numbers on the left side of the barrels just ahead of the receiver. This holds true for the bolt action rifles from the M46 through the 1900 series of rifles. This method, if I remember correctly, was due to Swedish regulations for civilian rifles. And welcome to the forum if I forgot to mention that.:D

[AK_Riverman]

Thankyou for the welcome and for sharing some of your knowledge about the Husqvarna rifle and the 358 Norma cartridge. Appreciate it.
Another question; In instances where there is no serial number stamped on the receiver then it would give the owner an opportunity to have a gunsmith stamp a custom serial number on the action for recording purposes, is this correct? Thanks

[sbhva]

Thankyou for the welcome and for sharing some of your knowledge about the Husqvarna rifle and the 358 Norma cartridge. Appreciate it.
Another question; In instances where there is no serial number stamped on the receiver then it would give the owner an opportunity to have a gunsmith stamp a custom serial number on the action for recording purposes, is this correct? Thanks

All factory barreled actions had the serial number stamped on the barrel as noted above along with the Husqvarna logo as a proof mark, and at least "Husqvarna Vapenfabrics Aktiebolag" along the top of the barrel. If your rifle does not have these then it is not a factory installed barrel. A serial number on the action was not required in the US until the Gun Control Act of 1968, well after most of the Husqvarna rifles were made.

[AK_Riverman]

sbhva,
Thankyou for the explaination. If this is the case then the 1640 action that I have can indeed be stamped by a gunsmith with a serial number of my choosing.
I need to add a few more books to my library, this coming winter. Here are a few that were recommended to me by others; The Bolt Action Volume 1 & 2 by Stuart Otteson and Mauser Bolt Actions by Ludwig Olson. Do you or kriggevaer know of any other titles that would be good additons on the subject of mauser actions. Thanks

[Yukoner]

I just sold this one today.





This is the fifth Husqvarna 358 NM I have owned. Got my first one in 1969 or 70. There must have been a lot more come to Canada than other countries.

Ted

[Baribal]

CIP calls it the .358 Norma Magnum, too, without a "metric" name.

Yukoner,
There are quite a few on your side of the country, but here, down East, they are not very common. Of course, there are a few. Here, except maybe Newfoundland) most of the Moose hunting in those days (and still today) was inside about 300m, average about 150m, because of the usual thick cover we have. Most of the long shots are made trhough lakes, or timbered areas.
Very nice rifle, though.

[sbhva]

Yukoner;

It looks to me like a 1651 Special. Engraving on the floorplate and trigger guard and an adjustable trigger. Very nice, too bad it has gotten so difficult to import from Canada to the US. I would agree that there are probably more .358 Norma Mags in Canada than the lower 48 states, but there are a bunch in Alaska.

[Yukoner]

Yes, Steve, it does have the adjustable trigger, and a very good one at that. Only two of the ones I had did not have that, and they both had what looked like a Model 5000 plain vanilla stock, as well.

Do you know who made the triggers? They do not appear to be Timney mfg, as the body is blued steel, not alloy, and are marked Tradewinds.

Ted

[sbhva]

The trigger was made by Timney. Some are blued like yours and some are bright.

[Yukoner]

Okay, thanks Steve!

[Baribal]

They are supposed to make a new run of the triggers, one day, anyways.

[terryl]

New to the form great reading I have a rifle that is close to the 358NM It's a model 3000 Mauser chambered in P.O ackley 350 short mag. built on 358NM brass. keep posting and I for one will keep reading. Thanks

[moosemike]

Just curious, is the .358 NM really the Holy Grail of Husqvarna's? Are there other candidates for that title?

[Baribal]

Depends what you're looking at, but for now they are the model that goes for the highest price, whatever if it's a "Lyx" "Special" or standard model.

[moosemike]

I just wondered what is considered the most desirable Husky offering. This seems to be it.

[Baribal]

The model 1900 are just behind, though.