OT: Valmet Shotguns

[2520wcf]

I know this is a SWEDISH forum, but couldn't find a better place, and think that Valmet brand is well-known in Scandinavia.

I have several Valmet shotguns and a combination gun, all but one of them imported by Savage back in the 1970s. Have several questions about Valmet shotguns which I hope somebody can answer or give me some directions to find answers:

1) Did Valmet make shotguns before the O/U that they apparently based on the Remington 32 and Kreighoff designs (the sliding "top lock")? Did they make any side-by-sides?

2) Was the O/U design based on the Kreighoff or the Rem 32 or both, and who was the designer at Valmet?

3) Did Valmet ever make a 16 guage version of the O/U? (I've seen ONE advertised but didn't actually see the gun).

Any answers or comments greatly appreciated. I'm a shooter and a hunter, not a collector, but have managed to "collect" a Valmet "Finnish Lion" 12 ga O/U, a Savage/Valmet Model 333 12 guage O/U, a Savage/Valmet Model 330 12 guage Magnum O/U, and a Savage/Valmet Model 2400 12/.308 combination gun over the years. Love 'em all!

[Igorrock]

Hello

I try to answer to your questions as good as I know

1) VALMET didn't make any S-by-S shotguns. The first model was 16. cal. LEIJONA in 1948. In 1950 came cal. 12.

2) The O/U design based on the french Damon Petrik, St.Etienne. The main designer of VALMET Leijona was tecnician Paavo Narinen.

3) Yes they did. :-)

[2520wcf]

Many thanks Igorrock. I'll look into the St. Etienne connection to see what I can find; I'm not familiar with the Damon Petrik, but like most Americans, I don't know much about French civilian arms, except for the Manufrance double shotguns (and that darn Darne).

Does "leijona" by any chance mean "lion" in Finnish ?(My Finnish is kinda shaky, too....but if the "j" iin "leijona" is pronounced like an English "y", the word sounds like "leona," the Spanish word for a lioness. An ignorant guess.).

[Igorrock]

Yes, Leijona = lion.

[2520wcf]

Given the information that Igorrock has provided, I found that the patent the locking block of the Valmets, the Remington 32, and the Krieghoff O/U shotguns was indeed Petrik's. He was a Czech living in France, and the other guns were made after his patent was filed. I have not been able to find out if the Remington 32 was licensed to use Petrik's patent device or Remington simply had waited 10 years until it lapsed. The rest of the Petrik-locked guns, including the Krieghoff, Valmet and the Remington 3200, were made long after the patent would have expired. (I'd forgotten that the postwar Remington 3200 had the same locking system as the 32, but had the chance to examine a 3200 trapgun today, and there it was!).

The Valmet 412 O/U shotgun, combination gun and double rifle is now made in Italy by Marocchi, by the way.

[2520wcf]

Just got another Savage/Valmet, this one a 12 guage Savage import Model 333 --the one with a ventilated rib, ejectors, and a bold scroll on the sides of the reciever. This particular one has 26" barrels choked improved cylinder and cylinder and is marked "Skeet." I'm going to use it for a knockabout field gun, since I have several other Valmets in nearly perfect condition.

The open chokes are just fine for the kind of hunting I mostly do in California (quail and cottontails). I'll use my Modlel 330 3" magnum with 30" choke tubed barrels for any duck hunting I can get in, and save my pristine 333 with 28" modified and full choke barrels for pheasant hunting on nice days when I go to Kansas for the annual pheasant safari. Probably take the Skeet 333 along for a spare. My original "Valmet Finnish Lion" I keep for a collector and take trap shooting about once a year.

Does anyone else have any of these guns and do you know if the scroll on the sides of the 333 recievers is actually hand engraved or roll-die stamped? I would guess the latter from looking at them under magnification (my 333s have a little real hand engraving on the trigger guards and opening levers). Anybody know for sure? Whatever technique was used, I like the ornamentation--big and bold like the guns themselves! (Some would say "big and cheap," but in my Scottish family "cheap" is a complement, no matter how it's used!).

[eastbank]

i have a valmet 412 made in finland in 12ga with a extra set of 3006 barrels and like it. eastbank.

[2520wcf]

I have the predecessor to your 412, a Savage-imported Model 2400 combination gun in 12 ga over .308. Kills stuff; I'm sure your 412 does too!

[Daryl S]

My 333T was a terrific trap gun - full/full and just hammered the birds, clays and ducks.

[2520wcf]

If they fit you right, the Valmet 333 traps do make pretty good waterfowl guns. Only problem is that they are choked too tight for large steel shot. I don't have a 333T but do have a 330 (no rib, no ejectors, no engraving, stamped "checkering"--plain Jane version) that is the only one I've ever seen marked "Magnum" and with 3" chambers and 30" barrels. If it's as rare as I think, I probably shouldn't have altered it, but before I knew it was unusual, I had Briley "thin wall" choke tubes added so I could shoot steel in it. Even with those I use no larger than 2s; don't want to jam up the thin tube threads. It was originally choked full and fuller. Great duck and called coyote killer! And like all Valmets, it's "glove friendly"!

I also had a the 12 ga. barrel of my 2400 combination gun choke tubed. It shoots slugs very well with the rifled tube (not QUITE as accurate as the .308 bbl., tho!) and kills birds and rabbits with the IC tube. Never used any of the other tubes.

[buffdog]

I believe Savage also imported a Valmet o/u shotgun as the Model 440. It was the same as the 330, but sort of a Deluxe version, better wood, vent rib, etc.
.

[2520wcf]

Bulldog, Savage DID import the 440, but I think that one was made in Brescia, Italy. Not the same locking system, etc. as a Valmet, although a decent gun for the money. Not sure who the actual manufacturer was; not a big name in the US like Beretta anyway. The "deluxe 330" is the 333, which had evrything that you mention except the wood isn't necessarily better. Just sometimes. Still had the fugly stamped checkering, except some of the 333T trapguns had real checkering.

I'm still trying to get my newest Valmet, the 333, up to speed. The stock and forend that came with it aren't factory. Look like a Fajen skeet stock in a fairly high grade of wood. Whoever stocked it was "almost good"...I had to cure some gaposis on the reciever sides (can't for the life of me figure out why he left it that way; an easy fix) and make the pistol grip a little more open (also easy). The forend was a "long reverse beavertail" with the grace and the dimensions of a 2"x4" although made of very nice, very dense wood. I'm still whittling on that, trying to get it to the dimensions of a 333 Field forend. Going slow, lots of wood to remove. Good news is that I got down below a pin-knot blemish on one side. Bad news is that I'm taking forever because the wood IS nice; i.e. very full of figure and can't be dressed down quickly with a Sureform or a drawknife. Rasp, rasp, sand, sand.....I'll get there!

The pad that was on it was recycled from another gun and was a mess. I'll replace it with a new one that will bring the pull out to where I need to have it--I have what my gunsmith calls "ape hanger" arms. Should make a great beater when I get done with it!

Quail season out here looks like it might be decent this year. We had more than average rain and I've been seeing lots of chicks. There should be more than the usual number of chukars too, and this "beater" is what I'll use for them. Don't like taking an expensive and/or fragile gun up among those rocks and rockslides!

I get to take my Savage/Valmet 2400 combo gun on a pig hunt in November in Tehama County, CA ! Can't wait.

[eastbank]

i had remington choke tubes installed in my 412 and i win more turkeys than i can use at the turkey shoots here. here,s a pic of my valmet 412. eastbank.

[2520wcf]

If you had a .22 insert for one of those barrels, that would be about all the gun you'd ever need, eastbank--neat!

Do you by any chance know if the 412 scope mount on your rifle barrels will fit the Savage/Valmet 2400 combination gun? I have the mount that came with my 2400, but it is unmarked and I can't seem to find a source. A guy on another board has recently bought a 2400 and needs a mount for it; I'm just not sure if the 412 mount would work, or where to get one if it does. The recievers on the 2400 and the 412 LOOK very similar.

[eastbank]

2520wcf, the mount came with my rifle and their are no marks on it, it is well made of steel and has 4 screws per ring top, it has a single stud on the bottom that fits into a single stud slot in the reciever and has a big headed screw vise type clamp that grips the groove on the reciever, these pic,s should help you see how it mates up to the reciever. my shotgun barrels have the same set up for the scope rings and base. eastbank.

[2520wcf]

Thanks, eastbank! I'll forward the pix on to this guy and he can see if his 2400 has a similar setup; I'lll also look at mine and try to see if it is the same (mine looks a bit different, if I remember correctly; not so massive and sturdy looking). Haven't had the scope off mine since I mounted it many years ago. Don't recall any markings on the mount; it did come with the rifle, which I got when a gunshop closed in Idaho many years ago ('tis an ill divorce that blows NO ONE some good...). It was presumably "factory" since it came in the box with the new gun.

[eastbank]

no problem.hope i helped. eastbank.

[2520wcf]

Had a goodlook at my 2400; the mounts are entirely different from the one on your 412--they are two-piece. I pulled the mounts looked for markings; one had a 65 and the other a 67. A guy over on doublegunshop.com told me that they were a Weaver #65 and a Weaver #67, just in case anybody has a 2400 that they want to scope. They would take any Weaver-style rings.

[Umimmak Torulleq]

Curiosa:
Schultz & Larsen in Denmark copied the Valmet o/u during WWII and tried to make a o/u shotgun using their own name. Few though were made and even fewer still are still in existence.

[2520wcf]

Interesting. I've never seen one, even one for sale overseas. Schultz and Larsen are well known among rifle nuts here, tho--they made beautiful hunting rifles that were underpriced here for a few years. Not now, tho.

[tekarra]

They used to be quite inexpensive in the 1980s in Canada. I have had the 212, 220, 2 x 312s and 12 ga/.308. Great guns.