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Thread: 8X58R Danish M89 Ammo Question

  1. #1
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    Default 8X58R Danish M89 Ammo Question

    I am looking for ammunition for the Danish M89 Krag. Buffalo Arms has 8X58R .060 headspace and 8X58R .070 headspace ammo available. Which one would be best for an M89 in excellent condition? Since Rimmed cartridges headspace on the Rim is the difference just in rim thickness? I plan on reloading the caliber at a later date so I am looking for ammo to shoot and accumulate brass.Thanks for any help.

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    Call Buffalo Arms and ask them. They deal with this all of the time. Buy a few rounds of brass of each size to see which will allow the bolt to close. If the .070 will close then that is what I would use. Then place an order for the size that works. For the old calibers buy the brass while you can and have it on hand. I got a Krag for a friend and loaded some dummy rounds using 45/70 brass necked down.
    Don
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    " Welcome to Tennessee, patron state of all things shooting" Bob Lee Swaggert in the movie Shooter.

  3. #3
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    Theory: One headspace (rim thickness) is for Rolling Blocks and the other is for Krags. I will look into this later today.
    Formerly known as Dave the Krag Man

    The Krag Rifle: The Hamilton Watch of milsurp!

    Currently after 1919-23 Tula 91, ex-Dragoon or Dragoon. PM with details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Old Dave View Post
    Theory: One headspace (rim thickness) is for Rolling Blocks and the other is for Krags. I will look into this later today.

    There have been discussions of this on both the Swedish Military and Civilian forums. I would include that info in your research.
    Steve

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    Contact Bob Shell at www.obsoleteammo.com and ask him. He has made and custom loaded a number of obsolete and oddball cartridges (e.g. the 6.5mm Daudateau - both versions) for me over the years and has a lot of knowledge.
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.
    [Points to sword] But this....this you can trust!"

    Conan the Barbarian, 1982

  6. #6
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    I did contact Bob Shell. He said he uses 45-90 brass to make the 8X58R and has had good luck with them. He didn't have anything to say about the .060 or .070 headspace ammo.

    After reading the discussion on the other boards it seems that the headspace issue is more with the Rolling blocks. Also after reading that some others use 45-70 brass I think I will see if that gives me a clue to the headspace on what would be best in the Dane.

    Then comes the figuring out a handload once I have brass.

    Thanks for the help.

  7. #7
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    "Cartridges of the World" (7th edition) lists several handloads for the 8mm Dane Krag.
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.
    [Points to sword] But this....this you can trust!"

    Conan the Barbarian, 1982

  8. #8
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    Several months ago I called Buffalo Arms and asked about this issue. They said that the ammo was loaded for Krags and that there customers had encountered a wide variation in head space in these rifles. The clerk suggested I buy some of the .70 ammo and if that fit, use that, but if the bolt would not close then return it and get the .60 ammo. I asked him about the rolling blocks and he said they didn't know anything about them.

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    Marzon,
    Thanks. That is just what I was going to try. Nice to know they are receptive to returning the .070 if it didn't work.

    Thanks goes to Krag also. I will start looking for a copy.

    I also checked the discussion on the other boards and got some ideas where to start as far as the handloading.

    With so much information on the net I am surprised at how little there is about these old Danes. Makes them kind of fascinating. Without a doubt this board has been the most helpful.

  10. #10
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    Buffalo will sell you one empty case of each rim size. Then you can test it yourself. My Dane works with the .070.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    "Cartridges of the World" (7th edition) lists several handloads for the 8mm Dane Krag.
    COTW is NOT an authoritive source of information on the 8x58RD cartridge. And it is _not_ a credible source for load data for 8x58RD.

    And for that matter, neither is Bob Shell. While I would've preferred to leave his name out of this discussion it was brought up so there it is. He published grossly excessive load data for 8x58RD for use in the Swedish rolling block. Grossly excessive. The damage he's done with un-researched load data cannot be undone. Apparently his only source of information was Cartridges of the World. He cites no other source of historical data. The below link does contain historically correct load data as it pertains to Swedish rolling blocks and pressures in general for 100 year old firearms.

    While this message thread on the Swedish civilian forum deals exclusively with the
    loading of 8x58RD in Swedish rolling blocks it contains valuable information from
    Norma Precision and is not hearsay nor theory nor guessing. This information comes
    from the people who know more about the 8x58RD in the Swedish rolling block than
    anyone else. While I understand this thread is about the Danish Krag it would bode well
    that ye all read yon message and heed the warnings.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=2511

    Buffalo Arms doesn't know diddily about these two rim thicknesses. They, too, have listened to erroneous information passed to them from a U.S. military publication that has no citation for credibility. Buffalo Arms has only added to this problem of 8x58R Danish ammunition.

    C.I.P. contemporary data on 8x58RD is not relevant to 100 year old firearms. The maximum chamber pressure recommended by C.I.P. will destroy a rolling block and sure won't treat a Krag kindly. Don't trust your life to C.I.P. data.

    Any Danish Krag or Swedish rolling block owner who takes his rifle to his favorite gunsmith to have them check the headspace should demand to witness the insertion of the correctly marked gauge into the chamber. There is _no_ commercial gauge made in the U.S. and if your gunsmith takes your rifle in the back room and emerges with a smile and his hand out for $30 or $40 for his "services" you have grounds to rearrange his front teeth.

    Dutchman
    Last edited by Dutchman; 12-13-2007 at 07:25 PM.

  12. #12
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    Keep shouting Dutchman, your doing a good job warning people. Hopefully someones life will be saved........Man that updated Norma load data can't come quick enough for me.

    Regards, Smokepole50

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    COTW is NOT an authoritive source of information on the 8x58RD cartridge. And it is _not_ a credible source for load data for 8x58RD.

    And for that matter, neither is Bob Shell. While I would've preferred to leave his name out of this discussion it was brought up so there it is. He published grossly excessive load data for 8x58RD for use in the Swedish rolling block. Grossly excessive. The damage he's done with un-researched load data cannot be undone. Apparently his only source of information was Cartridges of the World. He cites no other source of historical data. The below link does contain historically correct load data as it pertains to Swedish rolling blocks and pressures in general for 100 year old firearms.

    While this message thread on the Swedish civilian forum deals exclusively with the
    loading of 8x58RD in Swedish rolling blocks it contains valuable information from
    Norma Precision and is not hearsay nor theory nor guessing. This information comes
    from the people who know more about the 8x58RD in the Swedish rolling block than
    anyone else. While I understand this thread is about the Danish Krag it would bode well
    that ye all read yon message and heed the warnings.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=2511

    Buffalo Arms doesn't know diddily about these two rim thicknesses. They, too, have listened to erroneous information passed to them from a U.S. military publication that has no citation for credibility. Buffalo Arms has only added to this problem of 8x58R Danish ammunition.

    C.I.P. contemporary data on 8x58RD is not relevant to 100 year old firearms. The maximum chamber pressure recommended by C.I.P. will destroy a rolling block and sure won't treat a Krag kindly. Don't trust your life to C.I.P. data.

    Any Danish Krag or Swedish rolling block owner who takes his rifle to his favorite gunsmith to have them check the headspace should demand to witness the insertion of the correctly marked gauge into the chamber. There is _no_ commercial gauge made in the U.S. and if your gunsmith takes your rifle in the back room and emerges with a smile and his hand out for $30 or $40 for his "services" you have grounds to rearrange his front teeth.

    Dutchman

    Maybe Buffalo Arms is on to something with the two rim thicknesses. The thin rim is for BEFORE you fire any of Shell's ammo and the thick rim is for after to make up for your "extra" headspace you just put into your rifle after firing his ammo ? ? ? I posted a warning here a while back about that "article" , showing the pressures those loads made and of how he sprung the action on his rifle. I also called the magazine to warn them about it and was told not to worry by a guy who had no idea what I was trying to explain to him. mag

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    Maybe Buffalo Arms is on to something with the two rim thicknesses. The thin rim is for BEFORE you fire any of Shell's ammo and the thick rim is for after to make up for your "extra" headspace you just put into your rifle after firing his ammo ? ? ? I posted a warning here a while back about that "article" , showing the pressures those loads made and of how he sprung the action on his rifle. I also called the magazine to warn them about it and was told not to worry by a guy who had no idea what I was trying to explain to him. mag
    I've also posted warnings about Shell's 8x58RD load data on many forums around the web out of fear we'd be hearing of catastrophic failures and injuries (or worse) as a result.

    Where did you hear this information that he "sprung the action" on his rifle? I assume you mean the receiver sidewalls spreading. I want to know _everything_ about this issue. There's a long thread in the Swedish civilian firearms forum on just this topic.

    I did compose a letter to Shell but didn't send it. It was also going to be sent to Shotgun News. I felt strongly that Shotgun News completely failed to ascertain the safety of the load data presented by Shell and should be included in any litigation resulting from injury or death from his loads. Everybody who's seen Shell's load data has reacted strongly that it is grossly excessive. I lost sleep over it, really.

    Catastrophic rolling block failures-

    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/RBfailure.html


    My webpage on loading the 8x58RD for the rolling block.
    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/858rd.html
    For the most part I don't feel the need to share load data.

    Dutchman

  15. #15

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    If you read the article, he writes about and shows photos of all the classic over pressure signs, but he does not seem to understand what he is seeing. He talks about how the hammer becomes hard to cock. Since the hammer is the lock to the block, he bent it. Look at the head bulges in his fired cases, he bulged the chamber. He is blowing cases apart, does not seem to understand why, and keeps shooting those loads. What I thought was ironic was where he states you should not try and make a magnum out of such an old rifle, but his loads are above 300 Win magnum performance. You may still want to write the magazine, but they told me I did not know what I was talking about.

  16. #16
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    Ah yes, I remember some of what he wrote now. Especially the disintigrating case heads. You're right, he was walking the ragged edge. It also surprised me that he admited so much yet still recommended the load data. This is why I first went to the technical department of Norma Precision in Sweden asking for data to support his overloading and they gave it to me. The Norwegian loadbook and Norma's own handload data both topped out around 28,000 psi. Shotgun News would have a hard time discounting the data from Norma. Apparently they just don't care what faulty information they're spreading around.

    I also had some email with the ballistician at Accurate Arms after he recommended some heavy loads for 8x58RD in the rolling block. He backpeddled right pronto when he saw the information from Norma Precision. He was recommending C.I.P. chamber pressure for a rifle built before C.I.P. existed and isn't factored into C.I.P. data, the 1889 Swedish rolling block.

    I'm glad you brought this issue back up and I'm glad you're not afraid to speak up about this overloading of 8x58RD issue.

    Everyone please print out this information for future reference:

    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/images/8x58RD-1.pdf

    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/ima...Dladeboken.pdf

    This is the cartridge drawing & specs sent to me by Norma in Sweden but DO NOT accept the maximum chamber pressure as being acceptable for either the Danish Krag or Swedish 1889 rolling block. 3200 BAR is excessive for these two rifles.

    http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/ima...CIPdrawing.pdf

    Dutchman
    Last edited by Dutchman; 12-22-2007 at 07:20 PM.

  17. #17

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    That is what I meant by he did not seem to understand what he was seeing. He does "admit" to all those problems, but did not know what he was looking at ? I am not out after the guy, but there is a big problem with what he is doing. If you look around there are more than a few "reloading " articles by him with the same problems. Yet he does sell this ammo to people. I bought a 8x58 Krag from a guy that had a cracked locking lug, bent bolt handle and a "bent" receiver, it also came with a box of that ammo with 4 fired cases in it. I pulled the rest of the ammo down to find the COTW overload in them, to make it worse the powder charges were +/- 1.9 grains. So a few even had almost 2 grains MORE than the overload from COTW in them. mag

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    Dutchman, just as a point of comparison, what was the working pressure of the Norwegian military 6.5x55 rounds?

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    I have no idea.


    Dutchman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quillon View Post
    Dutchman, just as a point of comparison, what was the working pressure of the Norwegian military 6.5x55 rounds?

    From Karl Egil Hanevik Book "Norske Militærgeværer etter 1867" page 399

    The Norwegian used two timpe of bullets; the first version with long round nose bullet of 160grains ( B-patronen)and a spitzer one with the weight of about 139 grains ( D-patrone).

    Velocity

    B-patronen 700 meters for seconds
    D-patronen 745 meters for seconds

    Gas pressure from 3000 to 3200 atmopheres internal temperture of explosion 2400° celsius.


    regards
    Krag-Jrgensen Gevr M/1894 (Lang Krag), Krag-Jrgensen Gevr M/1894 (Privat), Krag-Jrgensen Karabin M/1904, Krag-Jrgensen Karabin M1912/22, Krag-Jrgensen skarpskyttergevr M/1923, Krag-Jrgensen Elgriflet M/51, Krag-Jorgensen skarpskyttergevr made in the last '70s, Krag-Jrgensen Gevr M1889/10, Krag-Jrgensen M1889/24 Artillery, Krag-Jrgensen Carbine M1889 ( M.89 1929)

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    Thanks, redimacchia! Now, if I'm doing the math correctly (and I was a History major, so there's a good chance I'm not), 3,000 to 3,200 atmospheres = 44,100 to 47,040 psi. This is at the upper end of the pressure range that's usually listed for the 6.5x55 in Swedish Mausers, and well above what's been stated in this discussion to be the maximum advisable for the Danish Krag. My question is this: is the Norwegian Krag's action for some reason that much stronger than the Danish Krag's, or is it more a question of the age of the rifles, in which case the Norwegian Krags shouldn't be fired with full service loads? If it's the latter, it sounds like commercial & surplus 6.5x55 rounds are pretty much inadvisable in the Krag.
    Last edited by Quillon; 12-24-2007 at 10:01 AM. Reason: typos.

  22. #22
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    I bought a pack of 50 Danish rounds via auction. Expensive, but the only way to get them. FMJs from 1966.

  23. #23
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    Default 8x58 RD FMJ from Norma 1966

    The ammo has arrived all right, and is in very nice condition. I called it "Norma" because that's the casehead stamp. As Ummimaq Torullaq had already remarked before, it's now difficult to find anywhere, including Denmark and Greenland. :-)

    Enjoy the pictures!

    Regards,
    Carcano
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1592072_475ec874b3635.jpg   1592072_2_475ec874b4680.jpg  
    Last edited by Carcano; 02-05-2008 at 05:55 AM.

  24. #24

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    I have been successfully reloading for the Danish Krag for a few years now. I have used brass from Buffalo Arms, reformed from 45-70 and from Gads, reformed from 8x56R. Both have worked successfully in my rifles, carbines and my sniper rifle.

  25. #25
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    Default Range report 8x58 RD in m/42 Schulz & Larsen RPTL

    I now fired a six-round test group of Norma's late FMJ ammo in my m/42 Schulz & Larsen RPTL. rifle, at 50 metres distance.

    Am not quite satisfied: enormous climbing. Probably due to the muzzle ring and its stock mount. It should be able to slide a bit when the barrel expands (same way as the bayonet lug of the Carcano M 1938 and M 91/38 short rifles), but apparently did not, and the stress may have warped the barrel.

    The 6-shot group measured 2,8 cm = 1 1/8" (width) x 9 cm = 3.5" (height).
    Without the sixth shot, it would have been 2,2 cm = 7/8" (width) x 7,3 cm = 2 7/8" (height)

    Shooting impression: recoil was milder than I thought. A quick kick, but definitely less than a 8x57 IS with normal military sS load. Cases expanded nicely (no sooted necks).

    Carcano
    Last edited by Carcano; 02-12-2008 at 03:46 PM.

  26. #26
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    Default Second range report 8x58 RD in m/42 Schulz & Larsen RPTL

    This Friday, I took the gun to the range for a second time. I fired two five-round groups, namely with a friend's handload (very accurate load, but baaad case preparation - the unannealed necks of the reformed .45-70 cases were prone to severe splitting) and with the aforementioned Norma surplus, which was probably the last batch that had been produced.

    This time, I was impressed by the accuracy. I had loosened the front band screw just a wee bit so that the barrel could expand forward when hot - and it apparently duly did.

    Impressions:
    - Excellent and crisp trigger.
    - Excellent sights, among the best I have encountered, in spite or because of their simplicity.
    - Recoil appeared stouter this time. In parallel comparison, I also fired a Turkish M 88/05/35 rifle with full European 8x57 IS hunting loads (older RWS TM, and Sako Hammerhead), and the 8x58 RD military FMJ seemed to have more (!) of a kick than those. Comparable to the 8x56R M30/31S Austro-Hungarian, and still less than the 8x50R Lebel Balle N.
    - Accuracy, as I said, was better. At 50 metres (I cheat with the distance because of my eyes), 5 shots grouped into 1.75" width x 1.1" height (4 shots clustered into only 0.65" x 0.6"). The same phemonenon with one thrown flyer to the lower left was observed with the handload.

    Carcano

  27. #27
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    So to answer the original question, the appropriate thickness for the 1895 Danish Krag IMO is .060. Although I think the original military case was thinner.
    Last edited by Ike27; 11-26-2008 at 02:12 PM.
    Ike
    "Hope is not a strategy"
    NRA Life Member

  28. #28
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    Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
    loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.

    case OAL = 2.272"
    head diameter = .501"
    rim diameter = .574"
    rim thickness = .058"
    bullet diameter
    at case mouth = .323"

    Norma commercial 8x58RD
    headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89

    case OAL = 2.266"
    head diameter = .501"
    rim diameter = .576"
    rim thickness = .059"
    bullet diameter
    at case mouth = .323"
    (same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)

    8x56R for the 1895 Hungarian rifles.
    head diameter = .491
    rim diameter = .554
    rim thickness = .055
    case oal = 2.194
    (a poor substitute, IMO)

    In the 1889 Swedish rolling block I use reformed .45-70 cases
    from Buffalo Arms in Idaho, USA.

    Dutchman

  29. #29
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    If you shoot the 8x58R Danish cartridge you need to read this below. It's the best piece of work on the subject you'll ever read.

    http://dutchman.rebooty.com/GB8x58RD.html

    Dutchman

  30. #30
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    With Alaska 196 grains anything between 650-680 ms are safe load. VH 140 43-44,5 grains makes it. But there is a big difference between brass. My favorite is H&L, 44,2 grains and 675 ms. You can go higher but do you need it? Slower and it seems to have more spread, maybe with an other bullet but not Alaska.
    I have crono factory Norma over 710ms, box says 680
    This is in a RB but should be close in a Krag.

  31. #31
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    Here is an extremely interesting excerpt from a Danish website. Maybe somebody could translate expertly?

    Patron 1889 (patron 1908) (8x58RD) Ammunition til gevr 1889 og karabinerne
    baseret p den. OBS: Afskyd kun originalt HL/HA ammo i din riffel hvis Du er helt
    sikker p at det har vret opbevaret ordentligt. Krudtet er ikke af bedste kvalitet og
    projektilet er meget ofte rustet meget i bagenden. Otterup's og Norma's produktion fra
    1958-75 er somme tider i orden men pas gevaldigt p, fnghtterne duer ofte ikke* og
    der er set en del patroner uden krudt.** Oplagt at genlade selv: 8 mm kugler er den
    samme som den tyske, hylstre kan fs, men er dog relativt dyre. Pas p med
    specialtyperne: det er set at projektilet er et sporlys og malingen p spidsen var slidt
    af af mange rs hndteren. Sporlys er slemme til at stikke ild i grs og selvflgelig
    helt forbudt at afskyde.

    *Otterup (Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik) brugte tyske fnghtter af meget drlig
    kvalitet mellem 1945 og 60. Hylstrene er lavet hos og mrket med Norma.
    **Ryst patronen op og ned ved det ene re, kan Du ikke hre krudtet rasle svagt
    indeni s lad vre med at bruge patronen. (sammenlign med en moderne patron)

    Source: http://www.gamlerifler.dk/pictures/Ammo-artikel.pdf (on page 2)

    Carcano

  32. #32
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    Here's a translation for you.

    Cartridge 1889 (cartridge 1908) (8x58RD) Ammunition for rifle 1889 and the carbines based on it. OBS: only shoot original HL/HA ammo in your rifle if you're certain it's been stored correctly. The gunpowder is not of the best quality, and the projectiles have often heavy rust in the rear end. Otterup and Normas production from 1958 - 75 are sometimes ok, but watch out, the primers often doesn't work*, and there's been found some without gunpowder.**
    Want to start reloading: 8mm bullet is the same as the german, cases can be bought, but are quite expencive. Watch out for the special types: It's been seen bullets that are tracers, that had the paint worn of the tip by years of handling. Tracers can set gras on fire, and are totaly forbidden to shoot.

    *Otterup (danish ammunitionfactory) used german primers of very bad quality between 1945 -60. The cases are made by and marked Norma.
    ** Shake the cartridge close to your ear. If you can't hear the powder inside, don't use it (compare with a modern cartridge).

  33. #33
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    Many thanks, BMF !

  34. #34
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    Default 40 pcs. 1x fired bras for 8x58R Krag for sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnison View Post
    I am looking for ammunition for the Danish M89 Krag. Buffalo Arms has 8X58R .060 headspace and 8X58R .070 headspace ammo available. Which one would be best for an M89 in excellent condition? Since Rimmed cartridges headspace on the Rim is the difference just in rim thickness? I plan on reloading the caliber at a later date so I am looking for ammo to shoot and accumulate brass.Thanks for any help.
    I know this is not ammo, but thought you would be interested. A friend I shoot with died and left 40 1x fired cases of 8x58R Danish Krag, rim = 70 thousanths. I will sell them for $1. each, delivered. Buffalo Arms gets $2. each. If you are interested e-mail me at [email protected].
    Thanks;
    smokem

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMF View Post
    Here's a translation for you.

    Cartridge 1889 (cartridge 1908) (8x58RD) Ammunition for rifle 1889 and the carbines based on it. OBS: only shoot original HL/HA ammo in your rifle if you're certain it's been stored correctly. The gunpowder is not of the best quality, and the projectiles have often heavy rust in the rear end. Otterup and Normas production from 1958 - 75 are sometimes ok, but watch out, the primers often doesn't work*, and there's been found some without gunpowder.**
    Want to start reloading: 8mm bullet is the same as the german, cases can be bought, but are quite expencive. Watch out for the special types: It's been seen bullets that are tracers, that had the paint worn of the tip by years of handling. Tracers can set gras on fire, and are totaly forbidden to shoot.

    *Otterup (danish ammunitionfactory) used german primers of very bad quality between 1945 -60. The cases are made by and marked Norma.
    ** Shake the cartridge close to your ear. If you can't hear the powder inside, don't use it (compare with a modern cartridge).
    I have about 500 rounds of danish krag ammo. Both the old prewar and the later postwar made by Otterup.
    My personal experience is that the Otterup ammo works very well, but the prewar often has delayed ignition or dosn't work.
    So my plan with the prewar ammo, is to empty the holsters og reload them.

  36. #36
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    At http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/jan_buchwald/AMA/ you will find a copy of the booklet from AMA, the danish army ammunition factory (Ammunitons Arsenalet), with drawings af the cartridges made.

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    414

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    Has anyone determined the pressures/velocities of the loaded ammunition in 8x58 RD from Buffalo Arms to determine if they are a) safe for a Danish Krag, b) safe for a Dane or Swedish Rolling Block?

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    1,202

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    Once you go black why go back?

    The only real advantage I see to using smokeless is that you don't have to clean your gun... Sounds like a bad habit to me.
    Last edited by JK; 05-04-2014 at 01:49 PM.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    2

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    Dutchman...I have a few questions and you seem to be the guy with the answers.

    1.) Was the cause of the catastrophic Rolling Block failure in Sweden ever determined? Did the shooter in fact load the rifle with a .500 Express round?


    2.) The information from you present from Norma is interesting. It states that they loaded (for Rolling Blocks) a round that drove a 196-gr. bullet at 2234 fps. Although no chamber pressure data accompanies this data, I would submit that there is no way such ballistics could be achieved with a chamber pressure of less than 28,000 psi. First, am I misreading the data you presented? And, second, where did the 28,000 psi figure come from?


    3.) Do you know anything of the Buffalo Arms loaded 8x58R ammunition? It throws a 150-gr. bullet downrange at just 400 fps less velocity than the .308 Winchester. Is this commercially available ammunition unsafe for use in the Swedish 67/89 rifles?

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Siskiyou County, California
    Posts
    2,429

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    Quote Originally Posted by evita123 View Post
    Dutchman...I have a few questions and you seem to be the guy with the answers.

    1.) Was the cause of the catastrophic Rolling Block failure in Sweden ever determined? Did the shooter in fact load the rifle with a .500 Express round?


    2.) The information from you present from Norma is interesting. It states that they loaded (for Rolling Blocks) a round that drove a 196-gr. bullet at 2234 fps. Although no chamber pressure data accompanies this data, I would submit that there is no way such ballistics could be achieved with a chamber pressure of less than 28,000 psi. First, am I misreading the data you presented? And, second, where did the 28,000 psi figure come from?


    3.) Do you know anything of the Buffalo Arms loaded 8x58R ammunition? It throws a 150-gr. bullet downrange at just 400 fps less velocity than the .308 Winchester. Is this commercially available ammunition unsafe for use in the Swedish 67/89 rifles?
    1- unknown to me.
    2- all pressure figures come from Norma. Consult Norma to answer your questions.
    3- consult with Buffalo Arms to answer your quesiton.

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