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  1. #1
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    Default Removing VZ82 paint and import markings?

    I am interested in getting a VZ 82. My local gunshop has three of them and its only a matter of time till one comes home with me. My only issue is the "blueing". I really dislike a painted on finish and would like to give it a fresh Nitre Blue.

    What is the best way to remove the old finish? Any way to avoid a harsh abraisive sanding or buffing? Will a prolonged soak in a solvent loosen the baked on paint?

    Also, does anyone know if it is OK to remove the import markings? I know messing with the serial number is a felony, but what about other markings?

  2. #2
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    I just finished stripping the paint off of a CZ82. I used Stripeeze and 0000 steel wool and lots of elbow grease. After stripping I found that the metal on the slide had a really pebbled,dark surface. Maybe to help in the adherence of the paint. I did paint it as I felt that bluing that surface would not look very good. I am sure others have gone the bluing route but, I painted. It looks good.
    Instigator/Conservative Underground

  3. #3
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    I have refinished two of these and the paint on both was a pain to get off with stripping solutions. So I used a wire wheel to remove the paint and it came off easily. I reblued with Mark Lee Express Blue and they turned out looking like new. crzbiker is correct about the metal on the top of the slide, it is not a smooth finish, and takes a little extra attention to remove the paint as well as during the blueing process. But if you take your time, it will look great, with a nice contrast between the smooth sides of the slide and the somewhat pebbled texture of the top. Overall, it took me a couple of hours to completely remove the paint with the wheel and then clean every part with acetone, and then half a day to go through the repeated steps of the blueing process. It was well worth the time and effort as the results turned out great.

  4. #4
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    Not to start a flame war, but why would you do this?

    CZ makes pretty polish blue CZ-83's in .380 if you desire a pretty one? You could even swap in a 9x18 barrel......

    I'm not one of the uber"purists" that think nothing should be refinished, it's your gun and you can do what you want, just asking why one would buy a East Bloc service pistol and apply bluing to it? It's the same finish available today on the CZ-75's, they come in polish blue for the "commercial" 75's and black polycoat for those who want the "military" finish.

    A better route IMO would be to use black DuraCoat or something made for guns, to replicate the original look but a more durable and attractive finish.

  5. #5
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    I bead blasted mine, parked and cerekoted it. It worked out nicely.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantheman86 View Post
    Not to start a flame war, but why would you do this?

    CZ makes pretty polish blue CZ-83's in .380 if you desire a pretty one? You could even swap in a 9x18 barrel......

    I'm not one of the uber"purists" that think nothing should be refinished, it's your gun and you can do what you want, just asking why one would buy a East Bloc service pistol and apply bluing to it? It's the same finish available today on the CZ-75's, they come in polish blue for the "commercial" 75's and black polycoat for those who want the "military" finish.

    A better route IMO would be to use black DuraCoat or something made for guns, to replicate the original look but a more durable and attractive finish.
    To each his own...but my rationale is: Surplus CZ82s are less than $200. New CZ83s are >$300. Bluing costs are about $20 plus a little time.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantheman86 View Post
    Not to start a flame war, but why would you do this?

    CZ makes pretty polish blue CZ-83's in .380 if you desire a pretty one? You could even swap in a 9x18 barrel......

    I'm not one of the uber"purists" that think nothing should be refinished, it's your gun and you can do what you want, just asking why one would buy a East Bloc service pistol and apply bluing to it? It's the same finish available today on the CZ-75's, they come in polish blue for the "commercial" 75's and black polycoat for those who want the "military" finish.

    A better route IMO would be to use black DuraCoat or something made for guns, to replicate the original look but a more durable and attractive finish.
    I totally understand and respect your point. If someone asked me how to remove the parked finish on a Garand to blue it I would go ballistic!

    I really like the CZ82, I'm just very biased towards painted finishes. I haven't seen an 83 so I cannot compare it. The CZ82's I did see were in OK condition but not mint and (for me ) could use some help.

  8. #8
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    Gee. I don't want anyone to have a problem but, I ended by using satin black engine block paint. This was suggested somewhere else here and sure looks nice.
    Instigator/Conservative Underground

  9. #9
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    On the same note I would like to know what is the same or similiar to the CZ "polycoat" maybe for a touch up.

    I would totally agree if something like DuraCoat or one of those poly finishes were close to what CZ uses, strip off all the old stuff and re-apply a fresh coat, in effect doing a "self refurbish" on the pistol.

    The older CZ-83's that were made when the 82 was still in production are exact matches to the 82, just with commercial markings and a better polish and blue as opposed to the paint. They were made in 9x18 up until recently, but the old 83's are just basically 82's "civilianized" with a .380 barrel dropped in for those versions, and also the rarer .32's. I'm not a huge fan of the newer 83's, I just don't like the trigger guard and would rather hunt down some older ones.

    I just don't think a CZ-82 would take to bluing that well. But if it enhances an owners enjoyment of the gun, I say go for it!

  10. #10
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    CZ-82's frame paint is very durable. Scrape and sandblast works best for me. Have Parkerized and hot blued a dozen and no problems whatsoever. Salts must be treated and "seasoned" as many parts are heat treated. I never use paint stripper on firearms for fear of hydrogen embrittlement. Perhaps not a big issue, but I would rather not chance it.
    Care must be taken to not change tolerances on critical parts.
    These pistols are absolutely stunning when properly refinished.

  11. #11
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    I personally just don't fix things that aren't broken, if examples of what I want are currently produced. But I'm not a gunsmith and don't trust my skills beyond just maintenance and small parts replacement. If you have the tools and skills to hot blue a CZ-82 and do it right, then I say have fun with it!

    I also am a bit jaded by the dozens of uglified CZ-52's I see for sale used, for $80 at gun shows, when someone tried to "commercial-ify" a 52, and thought some naval jelly, an aftermarket 9mm barrel and cold blue would turn their 52 into a Beretta 92fs, but the results were pretty bad looking.

    If I wanted a polish blue CZ-82/83 I would just buy a new one, because I would rather not try to "create" one.

    Again I'm not a "purist" I just like to leave stuff "as issued".

  12. #12
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    Again I'm not a "purist" I just like to leave stuff "as issued".
    That sounds an awful lot like "purist" to me.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantheman86 View Post
    Again I'm not a "purist" I just like to leave stuff "as issued".
    I agree in general. If I were to add a CZ82 to my collection, I would keep it as is. I chose to refinish mine for daily use and didn't like the painted finish. PAS is absolutely correct that if properly done, they are stunning. I used a modified rust-blue process that is inexpensive and gives a very durable and attractive finish. Plus, the process required a detail strip and cleaning that made it function more smoothly than before.

  14. #14
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    To answer the import markings question: They should not be removed or altered in any way.

  15. #15
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    Oh yes! I have met some real uber "purists", on their end of the scale, for any firearm they collect they wouldn't even dare to shoot it for fear of dislodging some dust or grease from 1892!

    It depends on the collector, I am not really 100% collector, I shoot everything I have, and I think a well-done refinish of a low cost East Bloc pistol is a neat idea. I'm the kinda guy that if I were to do that, or have someone do it, I would keep like 2 or 3 nicer CZ-82's "original" and find one with a beat up flaky finish and have someone re-do it. I need to have at least one in "issued" condition just so I can have one that is the way it was when it was in service.

    There's a guy who advertises on GB who Duracoats the 82's, getting one done in Olive Drab seems like a good looking option.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantheman86 View Post
    There's a guy who advertises on GB who Duracoats the 82's, getting one done in Olive Drab seems like a good looking option.
    I've seen that GB ad and the results look great.

  17. #17
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    I have four 82s so I've been free to go both ways. Three of them will keep their nice original finishes. But the fourth had a badly chipped finish and had extra large and extraordinarily ugly import marks, so it was the perfect candidate for refinishing.

    Jasco Premium Paint Remover in a spray can from Lowes works nicely to remove the original finish. The frame was parkerized under the paint, if I remember right, so it took a little steel wool and some buffing to get that off. At this time I have a cold blue finish on the refinished 82, and it's not satisfactory. I'm thinking I'll do a little sand blasting and polishing, and then a good hot dip blue.

    As for the nasty import marks, the Gun Control Act of 1968 applies. It does not address removing the import mark; it only states that the importer must apply it. Note that it specifically prohibits removing or altering the serial number, but not the import mark. You'll no doubt hear a lot of argument and hand-waving on this, like, "how is law enforcement supposed to trace a weapon without the importer's name on it", and that sort of speculation, but the law is what it says, and is not what it does not say.

    However, some states prohibit removing the import mark, so you will have to do your own research and make your own decision.

    The import mark on the refinished 82 was made of hundreds of little craters, crudely stamped into the slide in a most offensive manner, so I smoothed the surface down flat to remove the crater "bumps", leaving only the "holes", and that made it look much better. It's still faintly there, and I wouldn't hesitate to smooth it clean off, which is just fine in the free constitutional democracy of Oklahoma. Wait, there's someone at the door...
    Last edited by Porter Rockwell; 05-13-2010 at 09:29 PM.

  18. #18

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    Dupli-color paint stripper took the paint right off.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NKYCollector View Post
    I've seen that GB ad and the results look great.
    Thanks, that's my add on GB. I have duracoated over a hundred or so and have had pretty consistent results. I have a CZ 83 (in 32 auto) I recently picked up and the blue is pretty worn but I have no skill with blueing as of yet and don't want to experiment on this particular pistol. Maybe a little further down the road....

  20. #20
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    Own two that are in like new condition. Plan on keeping them that way. Picked up a beater recently for the purpose of stripping paint and blueing. Have some Marschal grips on order.
    On the blueing; plan on bead blasting, clean and apply cold blue. And the blue is where I am lost. Any recomendations for cold blue? Only thing I ever blued was an old shotgun and even that was 20 or so years ago.
    Some people are like a Slinky-not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.

  21. #21
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    I used Mark Lee Express Blue from Brownells. It gives a great, durable finish and is easy to do. Just follow the directions to the tee. In addition to your cleaner of choice, all you need is a heat gun or hair dryer and some boiling water. Mine turned out looking like a new gun, except for the grips.

  22. #22
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    I just bought a Bulgarian Makarov from a large chain store.

    It had been refinished by previous owner. Although the SN's were there, there were no import or caliber markings on firearm. I believe they were removed by a previous owner. And did a decent job of it I may add.

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  23. #23
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    I cerakoted mine (3) and somehow the import marks filled in, they are still there... just not visible. I agree, it's the great debate, they must be applied, and if they include the "new" serial number that CAN NOT be removed or altered. But in other threads... with so many applied to the barrels, and barrels swapped, re-barreled etc. it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

    My train of thought... don't remove them... but made less obvious (as mentioned), or with a little paint thinner if someone gets nit picky to be visible is the obvious solution. Or just leave them as a sign of the times.

    The only dilemma in the future... if they trade hands someone will pass them off as a pre 68 (yeah even though they were made after 68). That, is a problem for any of our gems if we remove the offensive marks, someone will try to falsify the history somewhere down the road. Yep, another "Bringback without documentation"

    Ed
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  24. #24
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    depending on how the import mark is applied it will come off with the paint. cherrys used some type of engraving machine or micro mill to mark their imports. and the mark was only as deep as the paint, so when it came off so did the mark. whom is at fault?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porter Rockwell View Post
    As for the nasty import marks, the Gun Control Act of 1968 applies. It does not address removing the import mark; it only states that the importer must apply it. Note that it specifically prohibits removing or altering the serial number, but not the import mark. You'll no doubt hear a lot of argument and hand-waving on this, like, "how is law enforcement supposed to trace a weapon without the importer's name on it", and that sort of speculation, but the law is what it says, and is not what it does not say.

    However, some states prohibit removing the import mark, so you will have to do your own research and make your own decision.

    The import mark on the refinished 82 was made of hundreds of little craters, crudely stamped into the slide in a most offensive manner, so I smoothed the surface down flat to remove the crater "bumps", leaving only the "holes", and that made it look much better. It's still faintly there, and I wouldn't hesitate to smooth it clean off, which is just fine in the free constitutional democracy of Oklahoma. Wait, there's someone at the door...
    A common example of where import marks are removed from firearms, are barrel replacements on "Blue Sky" import marked M1 Garands. These Garands were imported from Korea and were import marked only on the barrel. Many of these rifles had rough, worn out, pitted bores. The only way to make these serviceable shooters again, is to replace the barrel. When the barrel is replaced, there are no more import marks! I would imagine that thousands of these have been rebarreled by their owners. I haven't heard of the BATF prosecuting Garand owners

  26. #26
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    I tried to cold blue a beat-up old hunting rifle once and it didn't turn out so good, so I'm not ready to try stripping and refinishing my CZ-82 on my own. (I'd just feel sick if I screwed-up such a fine weapon). So, I was planning to send mine off to Ahlmans and have the whole thing Duracoated. However, that would have set me back at least $150. I had some misgivings about shelling out $150 to refinish a gun that I spent under $250 for. (And that doesn't even include the cost of shipping or replacing the grips and sights).

    Got to really looking at the gun, and wiith the exception of some minor wear on the slide release and very tip of the tang, the frame is in excellent shape - it's the slide that needs the work. Did some research on the internet and found a gunsmith in nearby Stephenville, TX (much closer than Ahlman's in Minnisota) who will Gunkote the slide (Gunkote black satin is a near perfect match for the factory fiinish on the frame) and magazine base plates, and mount my replacement sights for $75. Add to that a pair of custom grips from Designer Grips (old-style dessert cammo) for about $45, and I've got a cusomization job that doesn't break the bank.

    While the black slide/frame and dessert cammo grips sounds really nice, and the image I have of it in my head looks really sharp, I have also considered Gunkoting the slide a mediium-tan color, leaving the frame black, and still going with the dessert cammo grips. I think that would be sharp, too, but I'm not suure it would look as sharp as my original idea.
    Last edited by Squid; 06-29-2010 at 10:44 PM.

  27. #27
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    I essentially disassembled the guns and stripped the old paint with "Zip-Strip", rinsed, cleaned off stray paint with 280 grit sand paper and super fine 0000 steel wool. Then I degreased the gun and used rust/blue remover, rinsed and then repeated with the degreaser. Finally I cold blued the guns with a liquid blue (Birchwood Casey) and worked the metal with more super fine steel wool to even the bluing over the metal surfaces, rinsing with cold water after each application. I repeated the bluing process a few times until nice evenly darkened. It actually come out close to the bead blasted and parkerized finishes that I've done but with a slightly reflective finish.



    Blued CZ-82 with checkered Wattle with clear shallac red finish Marschal grips.



    Blued CZ-82 with Padauk, clear shellac finish, checkered Marschal grips.



    Blued CZ-82 with original military plastic grips.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fb516a10a023143d93097408513dfa3359ac656c.jpg   d1c36e811abaaf402a8319453c839fc4b19f68d5.jpg  
    Last edited by Black Blade; 07-02-2010 at 03:10 PM.

  28. #28
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    nice 82's Black Blade.

  29. #29
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    Default Hot-bluing Pistols

    Hot-bluing a pistol is inexpensive and easy. You need an iron stock pot that can hold about 2 gallons of boiling liquid without spilling it. The bluing salts can be made with 2 pounds of (Nitrate of Soda or Ammonium Nitrate) and 10 pounds of lye mixed with 2 gallons of boiling distilled water. I'd recommend doing this carefully, as you have to keep the water boiling as you add the ingredients (which will want to explode, so do it slowly), then boil for about an hour until the mixture stops out-gassing. Stand up-wind. Wear an apron and canvas gauntlets.

    Your bluing salts are now ready for the parts to be blued.

    The parts must be as close to 100% oil-free as you can get them, and I recommend boiling them in distilled water and trisodium phosphate (TSP) for about 30-60 minutes to degrease them, then rinse well, and immerse the parts in either a 290 degree boiling ammonium nitrate solution or a 230 degree nitrate of soda solution. Ace Hardware sells a clip-on baking thermometer that works great.

    When in the bluing salts, the parts shouldn't rest on the bottom. They turn brown and have to be carded if they sit on the bottom.

    The solution should not get much above the recommended temperature. If they do, the blued parts will turn green or brown and require carding.

    I suspend the parts in the solution using iron wire, so they are completely covered but not on the bottom. Boil for about 20 - 40 minutes, then remove and boil in regular clear water for about 30 minutes to remove the salts which will rust your metal if left on.

    Finally oil the parts. IF YOU WANT A FINISH THAT WILL NEVER RUST, bring a very light-weight synthetic motor oil (0-weight if you can get it) up to about 250 degrees, and drop the parts in. Leave them in the oil until the trapped water stops popping, then leave them in for another 30 minutes. The hot oil completely displaces any water trapped on your parts, and it opens up the metal's "pores", and seeps in. When you remove the parts from the oil, they will never rust, and I mean it.

    This process produces a rich black finish similar to that found on Russian-capture K98s. Here is an example:



    And here is a pile of CZ82s just for fun:



    This is *My Rifle*

  30. #30
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    Excellent! Many thanks for the bluing advice. Can't wait to try it.

  31. #31
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    I don't know about the"will want to explode" part of those instructions.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAGE View Post
    I don't know about the"will want to explode" part of those instructions.
    I can reply to that one. When sodium hydroxide (lye) dissolves in water, the reaction is very exothermic. Adding lye to hot water makes the water *much* hotter--the water may boil *violently*, especially if it's already boiling before you add the lye. Hot, caustic solution goes everywhere. That's not exactly an "explosion", but it's a very dangerous situation. It causes instant, permanent, serious burns, and permanent blindness. I set fire to a pot of rocket fuel on the kitchen stove once, and that was a "blast", but I never want to have a pot of hot lye solution get out of hand.

  33. #33
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    This might be obvious to some of us, but you don't want to use an aluminum pot either! The lye will dissolve the aluminium with massive outgassing (and heat) of Hydrogen....
    Last edited by Roamergrg; 12-21-2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason: spelling

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porter Rockwell View Post
    I set fire to a pot of rocket fuel on the kitchen stove once, and that was a "blast"...
    This is one of the GunBoards classics! I can only imagine my wife's reaction to this. Thanks Porter.
    This is *My Rifle*

  35. #35
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    "It causes instant, permanent, serious burns, and permanent blindness." This part kinda freaks me out. I think I will stick with my Van's instant gun blue.
    Did someone say bore snake?

  36. #36
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    I've been splashed by this stuff before, though in bluing about 20 guns, it's never been more than a small splatter. I still have the tiny scars, but this very rarely happens. The deep quality of the long-lasting bluing makes the occasional splatter worthwhile. It's pretty easy to avoid though. Just stay away from the liquid. If you have to add water to the solution, do so through a six-foot length of iron pipe. To hang parts in the solution set a piece of 2x4 on cinder blocks above the bluing tank, and dangle the parts from it, so you don't have to get near the solution.

    It's really not that hard to do.
    This is *My Rifle*

  37. #37

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    Try Dupli-Color spray on paint stripper. It takes the old finish right off. Check out the " CZ 82 photo shoot let's see em" thread for finish options. There are some great pics.

  38. #38
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    my-rifle "Hot-bluing a pistol is inexpensive and easy." I think we have different definitions of easy. thanks for posting the info tho. i Think i will stick to parkerizing as it is a more durable finish and less dangerous to apply.

    Kuntzer

  39. #39
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    OK, OK I won't try to persuade you. Just don't think hot-bluing is any more dangerous than driving to the grocery - or firing a gun.
    This is *My Rifle*

  40. #40
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    Can I use a stainless steel pot instead of an iron pot?
    כד יְבָרֶכְךָ יְהוָה, וְיִשְׁמְרֶךָ. The LORD bless thee, and keep thee;
    כה יָאֵר יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וִיחֻנֶּךָּ. The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee;
    כו יִשָּׂא יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וְיָשֵׂם לְךָ שָׁלוֹם. The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

  41. #41
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    I wouldn't us stainless. Stainless steel is an alloy of iron with other elements. You can get a 40" tank from Midway for $39. 40" is long enough to do rifles and shotguns too.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=165664
    This is *My Rifle*

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by my-rifle View Post
    Just don't think hot-bluing is any more dangerous than... firing a gun.
    I agree. Both are easy and safe when you follow the right rules. I didn't mean to alarm. But goggles are an important safety precaution for hot-bluing.

    I've only hot-blued small parts, but I used a small stainless steel container and the parts turned out beautifully, with no change to the color or texture of the container (indicating little or no reaction involving the chromium or nickel). Certainly a mild steel tank would be much cheaper than stainless in large sizes.

    My-Rifle, thanks for your comment about the rocket fuel adventure. I was a kid at the time, and surprisingly my mother took it all in stride, even though it blackened the kitchen cabinets and she had to file an insurance claim for smoke damage. She wanted my brother and me to be scientists or engineers, and figured the fire was just part of the price you pay. But it still amazes me when I think of it. Later, we developed a recipe wherein we dissolved the fuel components in water and cooked it to a paste, rather than trying to melt the dry ingredients, as before. The wet method was much more fire-resistant.

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