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  1. #1
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    Default Good cast bullet for 8mm Mauser?

    Can anyone recommend a good cast bullet for 8mm Mauser? It's a yugo M48 with strong rifling but a tad oversized from pitting and I'd be shooting either deer or paper.
    TIA

    This may be an academic question since the only bullet I've found is the 175 grn mold made by Lee.
    Last edited by Billofthenorth2; 06-07-2010 at 11:34 PM.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    Can anyone recommend a good cast bullet for 8mm Mauser? It's a yugo M48 with strong rifling but a tad oversized from pitting and I'd be shooting either deer or paper.
    TIA

    This may be an academic question since the only bullet I've found is the 175 grn mold made by Lee.
    Actually the question is a little academic. There is no proven design of cast bullets that will work or function the same for any given weapon. I too have that mold. Purchased it to develop loads using pulled milsurp powder with that cast bullet. Unfortunately, with other things being involved in my life, haven't had a chance to do that yet. I believe the bullet design and weight should work fine for the 8MM.
    I would cast with linotype or water dropped WWS. Linotype would be better if you are going to push the bullet hard. You will want to gas check if aproaching 2,000fps. One thing I have found that gives me concern is how deep I have to seat the bullet in the case to get it off the lands. Each individual weapon is of course different. I have found I have to seat with a OAL of 2.712 to keep it just off the lands. No problem with that except that the base of the checked bullet is so deep into the case, right around the shoulder, I am wondering if there will be gas blowby? Going to use Milsurp powder at a reduced charge and a dacron wad. This may stop the blow by and give good results.
    Wish I would have already had the time to do this and answer your question but it is still something in the works.
    Had to purchase a new case trimmer to do this also as I am using the primed cases that I pulled the bullets from. My Lee trimmers cannot be used to trim primed cases and bought a Wilson from Sinclair that will. Have all the components and tools, (except I still need a mounted bench vice to hold the trimmer) but just not enough time lately.
    You using commercial cases and powder will of course make it a little more simple for you.
    And now the bore being a little over sized may present a problem. I have found the mold drops bullets at around .325 to .326. Good for your oversized bore. But if you need to gas check them you need a check like the Lyman that just snaps on and can be done by hand. The Hornady needs to be pressed on to seat properly. Believe me I tried to seat a Hornady check on an unsized bullet from that mold, and it does not work. Tried to run it into my sizing die to seat without sizing the bullet and it still would not seat right. Tapped it with the handle of a screwdriver over and over and still could not get it to seat right. The Hornady crimps on when run though your sizer, The Lyman may fall off in flight, and some think that may make a difference. Others think the check has done it's job once the bullet has left the muzzle with no ill effects of it falling off in flight. You will have to experiment yourself to determine.
    Last edited by armyrat1970; 06-08-2010 at 02:49 AM.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  3. #3
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    The Lee is a good design ,There is also a good loverin design Lyman 323470 Its a tappered design that fills the rifles throat better and no need to worry if the nose is fat enough to ride the lands as on the Lee bullet.Saeco and RCBS also make a good bullet for the 8mm albeit pricey. Regardless of what mould you get its gotta fit your barrel or it wont shoot well. It would be wise to slug your barrel to see what your groove and bore dimensions are first and go from there
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
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    Yeah I left out the bore diameter since I'd counterbored it since slugging it. I have now reslugged the bore which is about .328 all around. Much better than the oval it was but still .005 oversized which probably explains the bullets hitting the target sideways so what now?
    I've cast for muzzleloaders but not sure what I should do for this. Do they make oversized bullet molds or do I get a regular bullet mold for .323 and bump them at the base?
    Your suggestions are welcomed.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    Yeah I left out the bore diameter since I'd counterbored it since slugging it. I have now reslugged the bore which is about .328 all around. Much better than the oval it was but still .005 oversized which probably explains the bullets hitting the target sideways so what now?
    I've cast for muzzleloaders but not sure what I should do for this. Do they make oversized bullet molds or do I get a regular bullet mold for .323 and bump them at the base?
    Your suggestions are welcomed.
    Now you're talking about a different animal. You can try beageling the mold:
    http://www.castpics.net/LeementingKitDocumentation.htm Scroll down until you see the notes about beageling.
    Or, Lee makes a mold for the 8x56 Rimmed Hungarian Mannlicher that goes 205grs. (a little heavier and longer than the 175 but still should work for the 8MM) Bullet diameter is stated as .329. Depending on alloy used they will probably drop at that size or larger. Probably larger like .330 or .331 Which should be great for your .328 bore. I believe you can still use the 32 caliber gas checks for them, as the shank should be the same size. Lee also makes a size lube kit that will size to .329. That is giving you .001 over your groove size if the bullets drop larger and you want to size, and allows to to seat your check during the sizing process. Then you can use the Hornady checks. If they cast larger and you feel the need to go that route, without sizing, I would go with the Lyman check.
    One other thought though. What are you using to size these 8MM cases you are planning to use for this bullet size? If you try to bumb the .323 bullets at the base, or even a bullet that drops at .325, I think you're gonna' have the same problems with them keyholing.
    Last edited by armyrat1970; 06-09-2010 at 04:59 AM.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.
    Lee makes a universal neck sizer for just such a situation.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  7. #7
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    The problem with the bullet mould Army Rat speaks of is the nose may or may not be too large to chamber in a regular 8mm barrel as the the M95 has a different bore dia. along having a bigger groove dia
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    The problem with the bullet mould Army Rat speaks of is the nose may or may not be too large to chamber in a regular 8mm barrel as the the M95 has a different bore dia. along having a bigger groove dia
    When you counter bore, does that just cut the grooves and not the lands? Never done it, so I ask.
    If that is so, it would seem then that beagling his mold would not be a good option either.
    Maybe paper patching, since his grooves are over sized?
    Don't want to spend money on a mold that won't work for you.
    Last edited by armyrat1970; 06-10-2010 at 06:21 AM.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  9. #9
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    Counterboring basically makes the muzzle end larger than the bore, you are removing land and groove material to eliminate damaged rifling and get to good rifling. I used a .375 (3/8 inch) drill bit so that leaves a bit of room all around.
    I may try paper patching and see what that does, a lot cheaper than a mold, sizer etc.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    Counterboring basically makes the muzzle end larger than the bore, you are removing land and groove material to eliminate damaged rifling and get to good rifling. I used a .375 (3/8 inch) drill bit so that leaves a bit of room all around.
    I may try paper patching and see what that does, a lot cheaper than a mold, sizer etc.
    If this is counterboring:
    http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mos...ter-bored.html
    I don't see why that Lee dropped bullet is keyholing. Unless you have another problem.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  11. #11
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    It's yugo mil surplus, handloads anything using standard 8mm bullets that are keyholing due to the bore being .005 or so oversize. I'm asking for recommendations for a cast bullet to prevent this.
    Last edited by Billofthenorth2; 06-11-2010 at 03:05 PM.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

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    Okay. I have another question for the wiser. I have never had a weapon counterbored. After you do, does the muzzle not need to be recrowned?
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by armyrat1970 View Post
    Okay. I have another question for the wiser. I have never had a weapon counterbored. After you do, does the muzzle not need to be recrowned?
    Warren, no recrowning nesessary,The counter boring does this if done correctly As the muzzle face is now the point to were it was bored back to ,like a deeply recessed target crown.


    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    Warren, no recrowning nesessary,The counter boring does this if done correctly As the muzzle face is now the point to were it was bored back to ,like a deeply recessed target crown.


    Tim
    Understood, but that seems difficult to do with just a drill bit.:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorpZlG28fI
    How was the recessed end of the muzzle squared off and how were the burrs cleaned out of the rifling and grooves, as I am sure you have to develop burrs all around the bore?
    Last edited by armyrat1970; 06-13-2010 at 05:33 AM.
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  15. #15

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    Hello,

    If your bullets keyhole from a barrel that is .005 oversize then I would say the bullets are sliding through the barrel and not sufficiently engaging the rifling. Long, heavy, bullets would be unstable. Try a shorter, lighter, bullet. Can you recover fired bullets to check the marks on them? That .005 of metal went somewhere and left you with weaker rifling. Patching the bullet might work if you start with the proper diameter bullet. Most people use onion skin typing paper which is about .0025 thick. Two wraps of WET paper will give you roughly .008 increased diameter. The wet paper shrinks and thins a little after it is handled and dried. You need two wraps. You can paper patch a copper jacketed bullet if you roll it on a file to give it a slight texture to hold the paper better. It would be best to start with a cast grease groove bullet of "groove" diameter though since it is less work. BTW, it would be unusual for a worn barrel to be a uniform .005 over from throat to muzzle. If yours is uniform then the remedy is to fit a bullet to your specific barrel requirements and check out the results on a target.

    Cheers,

    Squib

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    Yeah I left out the bore diameter since I'd counterbored it since slugging it. I have now reslugged the bore which is about .328 all around. Much better than the oval it was but still .005 oversized which probably explains the bullets hitting the target sideways so what now?
    I've cast for muzzleloaders but not sure what I should do for this. Do they make oversized bullet molds or do I get a regular bullet mold for .323 and bump them at the base?
    Your suggestions are welcomed.
    Another question. You only counterbored a little of the muzzle correct? Does the entire bore measure .328 when slugged, or just the portion you counterbored?
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by armyrat1970 View Post
    Another question. You only counterbored a little of the muzzle correct? Does the entire bore measure .328 when slugged, or just the portion you counterbored?
    Slugging the barrel will show the most worn portion of the bore, the narrowest point is what will be measured on the slug, the most important rifling is that at the muzzle so I only slugged it at the bore after counterboring. The original reason for counterboring was that the rifling at the muzzle was oval in shape.
    I did once slug the entire length and it was about .327 all around at that time (except the muzzle) but I have cleaned it extensively, it was incredibly dirty and patches run smoothly through it now, whereas before it felt like it had narrow spots.

    When I first fired it I was getting an estimated group size of 3 or 4 feet at 30 yds. I counterbored it a little over 1/2 inch and improved that to about 10 inches. I have since countered bored again to about 30mm, a little over an inch but haven't yet fired it again since slugging it showed such a large bore diameter.


    One thing to keep in mind, this is a cheap beater rifle that I am using to experiment on, to practice different 'smithing techniques on. I have taken a liking to it though and if I can get it shooting nicely that would be great. A replacement barrel would be the next thing to try but I would rather not spend the money if I don't need to. If the present barrel can be made to shoot well by tweaking the ammo that's the challenge I would like to achieve success at.

    At this point it may be wise to slug the whole thing again just to see if it is consistent.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  18. #18
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    I ran a new slug about 3/4 of the way down the bore and it's pretty close to being about .327 all around, the one just at the muzzle is about .328 all around, small variances on both due to pressure on the calipers etc. I may need to counterbore a little deeper but want to see how it shoots first.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billofthenorth2 View Post
    I ran a new slug about 3/4 of the way down the bore and it's pretty close to being about .327 all around, the one just at the muzzle is about .328 all around, small variances on both due to pressure on the calipers etc. I may need to counterbore a little deeper but want to see how it shoots first.
    As Army Rat mentioned earlier on the bigger 8mm Lee bullet for the M95 ,If your bore is indeed that worn It would probably work well in this instance as the throat is probably worn even more and shouldnt pose an issue.It is spec'ed at .329 so you might be good as cast without any sizing.



    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

    LETS GO PENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    As Army Rat mentioned earlier on the bigger 8mm Lee bullet for the M95 ,If your bore is indeed that worn It would probably work well in this instance as the throat is probably worn even more and shouldnt pose an issue.It is spec'ed at .329 so you might be good as cast without any sizing.



    Tim
    His only problem then is he would have to buy the mold first and then try to see if they chamber. If not, it's a waste. But the good thing is that the Lee molds are only $20. Not much expense to get your weapon shooting better.
    Warren
    If a man has nothing greater to believe in than himself, he is a very lonely man.

    I reckon so. I guess we all died a little in that damn war.

    And in that time when men decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by MEJ1990TM View Post
    Well, all right. Maybe just this once.

  21. #21

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    Buy either or both of the 8mm molds listed here:

    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...ku=000068MMKAR
    http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...ku=000068MMMAX

    They will drop at about 0.328", and can be sized down to fit your chamber neck (or you can outsie turn the neck), or (commonly) used as is if you have sufficient neck clearance.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for all the replies. I'll roll a few of my own, take her out to the range when I get the chance and see how it goes and proceed from there.
    The surplus of verbiage oft times consummates in a loss of perspicacity!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

  23. #23
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    billofthenorth:
    fwiw, i mistakenly bought lee's 8x56 mold which i alox tumble-lubed, gas-checked and sized .323". i know drastic sizing isn't supposed to promote accuracy, but the darn thing worked in my old turk. with peep sights, i get 3" groups at 100 yds using 32 gr of surplus 4895 (chrono'ed @1800fps.)

    i've since purchaced the lee's proper diameter 8mm mold, but haven't checked it out yet...

    btw, the 8x56 mold came in handy when i got my mannlicher m95.

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