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  1. #1
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    Default Persian Mauser Carbine rare or not?

    I purchased this Persian Carbine (8mm Mauser) about two years ago at an estate sale for 350.00 dollars. Didnít really care about the price just liked the rifle, how prevalent are they?
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  2. #2
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    uncommon and highly desirable. Outstanding price in todays market. I have looked for one for years, the only one I have ever seen or used was a sporterized one we used in spike camps in SE Alaska to subsist on black tailed deer and fend off and eat the occasional black bear.
    gil

  3. #3
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    VaughnMauser, is that a Model 49 Carbine? Very nice!
    God bless our Veterans, past, present, and future.
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    Have a good one,

    - Ron

  4. #4
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    AN excellent price, especially for a matching gun. They have become a lot " rarer"s of late. Interest in these guns will increase rapidly. The Czech version is better finished, but the Iranian version is quite well finished also.

  5. #5
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Vaughn, can you post a photo of the serial number area, left side, receiver area, below the crest. I'm tracking serial numbers trying to determine when the switch went from Farsi marked rear sight to Arabic numerals. It seems now to be between 14546 (high for Farsi) and 17444 (low for Arabic)? Thanks! The number is also on the bolt handle and buttstock.

  6. #6
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    While these rifles (both Czech and Iran make) were imported by the thousands in the 60's they are not really "rare". However they seem to have dried up into collections, many were sportered and they 'rarely' come up for sale now!

  7. #7
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    At one time, they were fairly common and many were minty. Different story now.

  8. #8
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    Not "rare", but "scarce"...

    Here's mine:



















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  9. #9
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    They are very rare today because Bubba butchered most of them into cheap deer rifles. I once walked into a gunsmiths shop and he was busy hammering on one to bend the bolt and then drill and tape it into a worthless deer rifle, now not worth the price of scrap metal but would have been worth big bucks if it had been left it alone. The current owner told me "who cares" I only paid $25 bucks for it years ago, I never clean it (he only shoots corrosive ammo out of it) and I still occasionally go deer hunting with it. Attitudes never change when it comes to annihilating collector grade guns, the faster they destroy them the happier they are.

  10. #10
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    The three lengths of Persians. Very nice rifle you have there! JH
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  11. #11
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    Message for fredh re: switch to Arabic numerals on Persian Model 49 carbine.

    Fred,

    My Persian Mod. 49 carbine, serial # 13004, has Arabic numerals on the rear sight (see pic's below). Hope this helps with your survey.

    Sam
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PersMauCbn01.jpg   PersMauCbn02.jpg   PersMauCbn11.jpg   PersMauCbn17.jpg   PersMauCbn18.jpg   PersMauCbn19.jpg  

    PersMauCbn13.jpg  

  12. #12
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Thanks, ncsammy. I obviously need more data in the 12000-14000 range.

  13. #13
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    I stumbled across one of these carbines for $129 a couple of years ago. Bubba had replaced the stock and cut the ears off the front site. I grabbed a replacement Perian rifle barrel from SARCO and swapped sights. I haven't found a stock so I made an ersatz one from a Brazilian VZ24 stock I got from MGS. It looks okay but wouldn't fool Helen Keller. To remove the Brazilian cartouche on the stock, I carved in Allah Akbar in Arabic on one side and the star and cresent into the other side. Comrade Yefim (aka lavric) called me all kinds of nasty things in Russian and accused me of perpetrating a fraud. I simply needed a stock so I made my own. Trust me, I neither sell anything nor would I try to pass of my handiwork as legit. Dang sure wish I could find a correct stock, though.
    כד יְבָרֶכְךָ יְהוָה, וְיִשְׁמְרֶךָ. The LORD bless thee, and keep thee;
    כה יָאֵר יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וִיחֻנֶּךָּ. The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee;
    כו יִשָּׂא יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וְיָשֵׂם לְךָ שָׁלוֹם. The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

  14. #14
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    Boy, those are neat rifles. I'd love to find one someday...
    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  15. #15
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Quote Originally Posted by haak48 View Post
    The three lengths of Persians. JH
    Jim, the short rifle is apparently quite rare, especially in what appears to be a mint condition specimen. I was watching one in the Stern auction a couple years ago and lost interest at $3,000. Don't remember where bidding ended; however, it was the only one I'd seen and was in a condition similar to yours.

  16. #16
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    Default Persian VZ24

    Hi Fred,
    Though I do not want to hijack this thread into a disscusion of VZ24's, they are my favorite Persian. The 1938 dated 24's can be hard to find and are almost unknown in this condition. Apparently they were quite popular and got well used.I had been told Bruce had one but I did not watch the auctions. JH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Picture 143.jpg   Picture 146.jpg  

  17. #17
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    Ye Olde Hunter (Hunter's Lodge, Allexandria, VA.) ran ads for the short rifles and carbines for more than a year- 1961 to 1962 in the American Rifleman. They offered the VZ-24's from Iran with either BRNO or Sun Lion Crest markings for 29.95 and the carbines (both Czech made and the Model 49) for 34.95. They offered new condition model 49 carbines for 49.95. They also offered rebuilt Kar98's which they advertized as rebuit in Iran with factory test target. These ads ran for quite a while so there must have been more than a few- but they certainly do not show up on the auction sites very commonly now- as the 98/29's long rifles do. A Czech made Persian carbine sold on gunbroker about a month ago for $650. in used, well cared for condition. I had instant non-buyer's remorse.

  18. #18
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Icmunn, I, too, remember those days, but I was being paid $1.24/hr to clean looms in a cotton mill during the summer and used that money to pay for an education. We didn't have government assistance then. On the lighter side, Soucher, who owned Century Arms, told me in 1966 that he had the contract with Iran to buy the surplus Mausers. Sam Cummings (Ye Olde Hunter) wanted the rifles badly and finally got the rifles by telling the Iranians that Soucher was Jewish, that they didn't want to sell rifles to Jews, did they? When Soucher told me that, he laughed, but by the way he told the story, he was bitter. That was one load of guns.

  19. #19
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    The long rifles are now commen cause they have imported another stash in the last few years. I have one of the VZ24's with Brno name on reciever but above that is the small crown found on top of the full crest. Got it a gun show couple years ago for 200 bucks. Had been looking for years!

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    Ye Olde Hunter ran some odd comments and claims in the ads but I'll bet the comments about how "all competitors failed to pass Purity of Blood and Best of Breed tests" in the Persian Mauser ads must have really been agravating for Mr. Soucher to read. In the April 1961 rifleman ad, they said they 99,849 Persian Mausers in stock but who knows the mix. By July, 1961 they claimed to have 65,823 left. Personally, I would rank them in order of seeing them offered for sale as Long rifles>>>Persian made carbine>Czech made carbine>> VZ-24 short rifles but I do not make the big gun show circuit from Laramie. Does anyone know if the Persian used Kar98's were specially marked?

  21. #21
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Yep, and I watched for the Ye Olde Hunter ads every month, if just to read. For examples, one 1800s rifle model, something like Italian VV70s, with bores so good a tiny knat could spread its wings and fly thru the bore. Or Carcanos in superb condition only dropped once when they realized the jig was up and still with the fanatical fingerprints of their former owners, or some jibberish like that. I'm speaking from memory; don't have the ads any longer.

    I let Soucher have his fun. He wanted me to fly to Thailand with him to evaluate what became the Siamese Mauser contract. He later lost that one also to Cummings, but when I asked him who to call at Hunter's Lodge to get one of the Japanese grandpapas, he told me the grandpapas were already in country, but the stocks would come later. I won't go into that, but he wanted me to call one of Cummings vice presidents and ask him when they were arriving. I was thinking nothing to lose, so made the call. The fellow on the other end of the line laid a brick when I asked him about the wood, wanting to know how the devil I knew about that, then denied it altogether. They weren't supposed to have the wood and pistols together at the same time. Soucher enjoyed that little prank.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcmunn View Post
    Ye Olde Hunter ran some odd comments and claims in the ads but I'll bet the comments about how "all competitors failed to pass Purity of Blood and Best of Breed tests" in the Persian Mauser ads must have really been agravating for Mr. Soucher to read. In the April 1961 rifleman ad, they said they 99,849 Persian Mausers in stock but who knows the mix. By July, 1961 they claimed to have 65,823 left. Personally, I would rank them in order of seeing them offered for sale as Long rifles>>>Persian made carbine>Czech made carbine>> VZ-24 short rifles but I do not make the big gun show circuit from Laramie. Does anyone know if the Persian used Kar98's were specially marked?
    Yes, much like the Iranian's three line text-crested Vz.24's, the 98a's were surcharged in the middle of the receiver ring with a small lion with sword against the sun mark. I've only seen two of these 98a's and have just one. It was on Gunbroker a few years ago and was sold as a German rifle. The Iranian Gewehr 98 however is the rifle you want to find. A lion-marked barrel with Lange sight was posted on this board about 4 months ago, with Farsi text factory imprinted on the barrel.

    Good thread, you guys. Kinda makes me wish I'd been born then.
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 02-28-2011 at 04:33 AM. Reason: typos

  23. #23
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    Default Actually the 60's sucked.

    John, thank you for the info on the 98a markings. Something else to look for. I started the 60's in puberty and ended them in Vietnam which was only slightly better. There were tons of South and Central American Mausers coming in then though!

  24. #24
    fredh is offline Platinum Bullet Member with clusters
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcmunn View Post
    Ye Olde Hunter ran some odd comments and claims in the ads but I'll bet the comments about how "all competitors failed to pass Purity of Blood and Best of Breed tests" in the Persian Mauser ads must have really been agravating for Mr. Soucher to read.
    Icmunn, I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment. I remember reading that purity of blood statement in the Ye Olde Hunter ads but didn't understand what they were getting at. After what Soucher told me, the statement makes more sense. I really didn't know Soucher well, but when talking with him, he always got around to the serious competition with Cummings. I never put 2 and 2 together. Very astute observation on your part.

  25. #25
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    I recently purchased this 8mm Persian mauser carbine and immediately noticed the quality of workmanship that was put into it. The serial number appears to be 3188-? Can anyone help me identify the date of manufacture, model number, etc on this super rifle? I own other carbine mausers but this is one of the nicest I have come across...

  26. #26
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    CZ Produced, M-30, SRC for Persia. (1309 date), 1929/30 manufacture. Aresenal refurb. Nice, JH

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    A little OT...I've got the long Persian in mint condition with the proof target and shot it very little, last week I was cleaning my ERMA EL 24 22lr conversion for the K98k and tried it on the Persian , well it fitted perfectly and took it to the range, nice precision as if the conversion was installed in the K98k
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    hi fredh, saw your thread about m49 serial numbers. I just purchased what I believe is Iranian m49, farsi on receiver and rear sight, Iranian crest with lion, sun and crown. My serial number reads from left to right: 20403-29. Ser is matching on bolt handle and stock. Have not taken stock off so don't know if barrel is matching. Front sight and barrel are one piece of steel. Blue is in exc cond as is bore. Stock is not walnut, maybe beech or other and has a few storage scratches. Paid $350 from pawn. Cannot read farsi on receiver bahind ser# so not sure where gun was mfgd. I don't know how to send pictures but will learn. What can you all tell me about rifle?

  29. #29
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    fredh, I have an M49 s/n 23753-29 with western numbers on the sight.

  30. #30
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    im from k.s.a
    that kind of rifles is not very rare
    but it ,s not famous to bcuz the reaction during u r sooting and another reason we like the long ring in shottig however that kind does,nt help
    the most famus one is the youg m48
    PLS NOTE THAT IAM NOT GOOD IN DICTATION




    http://www.empirearms.com/bnz41.jpg

  31. #31
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    Slightly off topic (not the carbine), but Persian none the less and an interesting variant. Great info as well that you all can use to locate one if you don't have it in your collection.

    Here's the original post. Persian made M1309 (not a Brno) long rifle.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...e-PHOTOS-ADDED
    Last edited by mosinbuckeye; 03-02-2011 at 04:06 PM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain man View Post
    hi fredh, saw your thread about m49 serial numbers. I just purchased what I believe is Iranian m49, farsi on receiver and rear sight, Iranian crest with lion, sun and crown. My serial number reads from left to right: 20403-29. Ser is matching on bolt handle and stock. Have not taken stock off so don't know if barrel is matching. Front sight and barrel are one piece of steel. Blue is in exc cond as is bore. Stock is not walnut, maybe beech or other and has a few storage scratches. Paid $350 from pawn. Cannot read farsi on receiver bahind ser# so not sure where gun was mfgd. I don't know how to send pictures but will learn. What can you all tell me about rifle?
    Front sight is actually on a sleeve which is pressed on barrel, when poished and blued it appears one-piece.

  33. #33
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    The post war, Persian-produced carbine is available on the online auction sites fairly regularly for $500-700 asking prices. Much more common than the pre-war, Czech-manufactured carbine (which lacks the sling cut out of the later model). The long rifle is very common with some still available from Samco. The VZ24 is the least common of these.

    To put these in perspective, I would equate the m49 carbine as more common in the US than an 1935 Chilean carbine, and frequently found in unissued or very good condition.

  34. #34
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    the 49 is fairly desireble in your carbine length, and while being fairly rare they do commonly show up. the more rare version would be the earlier CZ version that has swivel slings made for persia, they are earlier 1930's as compared to the 49 and higher grade fit and finish, ofcoarse some show harder use also.

  35. #35
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    I'd say that these are fairly rare. I've looked for years and only just found and purchased one. Pics below.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 49camelcarbine1.jpg   49camelcarbine2.jpg  
    Last edited by JPS; 02-22-2012 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Rules violation

  36. #36

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ID:	517314i bought one in 02/2010 for 350.00 no import marks excellent condition but no sling,but came with bayonet. they have been going for 650-850.00 lately
    Last edited by blagrave00; 02-22-2012 at 08:37 PM. Reason: pics

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    The CZ carbine I have was purchased from Interarms in 1968; the carbines were in a rack without their bolts, which were lose in a box nearby. (They were not in the retail sales area of Hunters Haven but were in an area requiring an FFL to enter.) Fortunately the matching bolt was not too difficult to find. Beautiful workmanship, shoots very well, though does a good flame thrower immitation with German WW II ball ammo. BTW, IIRC, Farsi reads from right to left, not left to right. Sam was an interesting guy.

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    I forgot to add re rarity, a reasonable WAG is that for every CZ carbine I've seen for sale, I've seen at least 10 M49s. I suspect because of the way Interarms packed the carbines for importation (with the bolts seperate) there are very few CZs with all matching numbers out there - I have only seen one other in all of the years since '68 and that was years ago, on a Canadian auction site. From the pictures, it looked legitimate. Re bubba and these carbines - I've not seen any CZ carbines bubba worked on, but have seen a couple of 49s. The story about a gunsmith banging on the bolt doesn't make sense to me - all the carbines already had forged bolts. I have used it off and on for a backup in hunting camp (though the VZ 33 or G33/40 are lighter) and it handles blacktails fine. The darn saddle ring has to be taped down to stop it from rattling while still hunting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncsammy View Post
    Message for fredh re: switch to Arabic numerals on Persian Model 49 carbine.

    Fred,

    My Persian Mod. 49 carbine, serial # 13004, has Arabic numerals on the rear sight (see pic's below). Hope this helps with your survey.

    Sam
    The numbers on that carbine should be Farsi, not Arabic. While most are written the same some are quite different. The numbers on rear sight appear to be western style, strange!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornedavis View Post
    The numbers on that carbine should be Farsi, not Arabic. While most are written the same some are quite different. The numbers on rear sight appear to be western style, strange!
    The rear sight was changed to western style numerals partway through production of the M49.
    looking for: various Chinese WWII rifles and original matching Soviet Mosins (1945 and earlier)

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownrangeDFW View Post
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    I recently purchased this 8mm Persian mauser carbine and immediately noticed the quality of workmanship that was put into it. The serial number appears to be 3188-? Can anyone help me identify the date of manufacture, model number, etc on this super rifle? I own other carbine mausers but this is one of the nicest I have come across...





    That's the rifle that I have...a Model 30 with the saddle ring and has the standard sling swivel on the bottom of buttstock, rather than the type thru the stock....pictures to follow.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Model30.1.jpg   Model30site.jpg   Model30rail.jpg   Model.30.jpg   Model30crest.jpg  
    Last edited by Ol Duke; 01-28-2013 at 10:14 AM.
    Thanks,
    Ol'Duke

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    I have Persian issue rifles. This is my rarest. I know of none other. It is a .22 trainer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2 kd per 011..jpg  

  43. #43
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    Nice....never seen one before..
    Thanks,
    Ol'Duke

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by haak48 View Post
    The three lengths of Persians. Very nice rifle you have there! JH
    Being a good friend of Jim (JH) the old adage of a blind squirrel occasionally finds a acorn doesn't apply to him. He would be the blind squirrel that ALWAYS finds an acorn.

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    Another one to keep my eyes out for at the funshows.
    Did someone say bore snake?

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