PSL exploded in my face after 10 rds
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Thread: PSL exploded in my face after 10 rds

  1. #1
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    Default PSL exploded in my face after 10 rds

    Not a good way to get the weekend started.  I took the PSL out to the range for the first time, and decided to sight in the scope.  I got 9 rounds down the pipe, and here is what happened on the 10th.  I was shooting Bulgarian light ball ammo.



    yeah, thats bent



    The carrier came off the rail.

    I sent an email to Waffen Works, and hopefully they will take care of this.
    I am pretty upset, but happy to still have my eyes.  The last round peppered my face pretty good.

    On a brighter note, it was accurate. 

  2. #2
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    Glad you're OK. My TGI PSL had two kabooms with Russian LB milsurp ammo. First one the factory took care of and the last I was able to fix myself. I'm careful to keep her cleaned and lubed after each range session. I was ready to get rid of the exploding beast at the time, but I'm glad I hung in there. My PSL gets more range time than most of my other rifles. It shoots the same ammo as my 91/30 PU's and it is just plain fun to shoot. Again, glad you're OK and hopefully WW will repair/replace your rifle or offer a refund. Please post an update when issue is resolved.

  3. #3
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    Thank God you're okay. Stuff can be fixed/bought, life can't.

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  5. #4
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    Here are a few more pics

    What really sucks is that I can't find my broken shell extractor









    squished


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    If I'm seeing things correctly, it looks like the bolt carrier came off the rail on the 9th round and didn't fully seat the 10th. Also it looks like there's some excessive damage to the rear camming surface of the bolt carrier too. You are very lucky Sir.

    I can't see the rest of the rifle well, but you mentioned Waffen Works. Is this their 'AK-54'? If so, it isn't a PSL anymore and the shortened gas tube may be causing excessive pressure. This could potentially be a bad design flaw, and was discussed somewhat a while back.

    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by trainsktg View Post
    I can't see the rest of the rifle well, but you mentioned Waffen Works. Is this their 'AK-54'? If so, it isn't a PSL anymore and the shortened gas tube may be causing excessive pressure. This could potentially be a bad design flaw, and was discussed somewhat a while back.

    Keith
    Agreed, though with pictures its always hard to tell. However, unless the receiver was already damaged in the middle, either bowed outwards or bent, it looks almost certainly like overpressure kicked the carrier up and off the rails. The rails on the carrier are too sturdy to be bent, so it would have to be the reciever that gave.

    Looking the the bolt carrier cam, I would say that this gun is no longer shootable.
    Last edited by Nirvana; 06-12-2010 at 01:12 PM. Reason: typos

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    This is serious indeed. There aren't too many Waffen AK-54s out there yet, but if this example is one, then I suspect that either new barrels with smaller gas port holes or adjustable gas valves are absolutely necessary for this modified series of rifle to work safely. Just using beefier spring or a recoil buffer will not do the trick IMO.

    Keith

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    It is not one of the AK-54's, it is a full length PSL. They call it their truck gun.

  10. #9
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    Hmmm. Well then hopefully you just got a bad rifle. Or some seriously overloaded ammunition. Maybe Ivan put a double charge of powder into that particular batch. It has an NDS, not Romanian, receiver though...

    Keith

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    Jesus, dude. That is terrifying. I was just shooting mine with the same Bulgy ammo. New gun as well. I wonder if you noticed anything out-of-whack when examining the gun before shooting it? Loose rail, cockeyed alignment or anything? That is scary but Century will fix or replace it. I would say replace for sure in this case and then depending on how much you trust the model after that, you can sell it at a small profit at a local gunshow if you are leery of that again. Reading about you getting peppered makes me think I am going to start wearing my shooting glasses ALL the time from now on. Glad you are OK. What was the headstamp and perhaps lot number of that ammo? Andy

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    Glad to hear you're OK Zer0DazE...

  13. #12
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    Nothing looked out of wack before shooting it. I cleaned it this week, and looked it over yesterday when I fitted the scope. It cycled fine, and everything looked to be in place. It isn't a Century build, it is a Waffen Works build... I went with them because they use the NDS receiver.

    I shot them an email, and expect to hear back Monday. Being the weekend they probably don't check it. When I bought the rifle they were extremely helpful. I am optimistic, so I think they will come through and repair or replace the rifle.

    Even the shot that went BOOM was in the same group as the last rounds I shot, so I don't think the load was hot. As a side note, they were all touching... I was sighting in at 25 so it would be set for 200 (that was what I read), and it was making 1 big hole. Hopefully they can just fix it because it looks like it will be a great shooter.

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    I just read it wasn't Century. At any rate, any real manufacturer will definitely make that right, and probably throw you some extras for your hassles.

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    Default Concure with trainsktg

    Thank goodness you are well!!

    "trainsktg
    If I'm seeing things correctly, it looks like the bolt carrier came off the rail on the 9th round and didn't fully seat the 10th."

    This definitely looks like the carrier came off the rails on the ninth shot. I have a TGI PSL and it also had this tendency. Fortunately I found this out during manual dry cycling prior to shooting. I "fixed it" by installing a recoil buffer. This prevents the carrier from traveling back far enough to come out of the rails. Hopefully this helps for future shooting and others with PSL's.

  16. #15
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    Default PSL failure

    So what I think I'm hearing ,,, and supposing as a likely explanation is the carrier popped out of engagement with the rail(s) at the end of its rearward travel after firing round 9, partly chambered round 10 but bound up before it could lock, allowed for the hammer to fall at that out of battery state, failed to prevent contact between hammer and firing pin by means of the projection at the rear of the carrier,,, perhaps due to malalignment resulting from the "derailment," touched off the round on a partially unsupported case that then ruptured. Okay. Maybe. I'd like to know if you've checked headspace, though. I'd do that before sending it back. And it has to go back ASAP. Don't try to fix it or have it fixed locally. Glad you're okay.

  17. #16
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    ^
    That seems to be the consensus.

    I have not checked it for head space. I guess this gives me a pretty good reason to buy 7.62x54r head space gauge.

  18. #17
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    That picture with the case still in the chamber......really looks like the round WAS NOT fully chambered when it went off. The Case blew out and peeled back in an area that should have been fully supported by the chamber.
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  19. #18
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    Yep, it looks as if it did an out of battery firing. That was my first impression while the pics were loading. (Darned dial-up is all we can get where I live) I would definitely recommend sending it back, after they respond to your e-mail. I am sure that they will want to correct this issue, as it's something that could kill a reputation should they fail to do so.

    SOOOO happy that you're ok. I recommend good shooting glasses, anytime anyone is firing anything. SOME kind of safety glasses, anyway. Looks like you have the prrof of why that's a great idea.
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  20. #19
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    The guys at Waffen Works got back to me today. Sooner that I expected, and it looks like they are going to replace or repair it. So things are better than bad.

  21. #20
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    I have been wanting a PSL, and I think you have now talked me out of it. Explosions not caused by bad ammo freak me out. Maybe a bolt action mosin
    "A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that." -- Shane




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  22. #21
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    This is a first that any of us have seen or heard of happening with a PSL, and this particular rifle is a kit with a US receiver and military parts, not a complete Romanian rifle. Don't let this one example deter you from possibly getting one down the road.

    Keith

  23. #22
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    I too think yours was an out of battery, not completely chambered explosion. Primarily from what other posters have also noticed about the way the case is bulged on an area that should have been chambered so it could not have bulged there, along with your rail jumping track too. That is most likely. But at first I was thinking you might have experienced a detonation. But now I don't think that was it. Still, here's a good article to read about what is the likely causes of detonation and how destructive they can be.
    http://www.vincelewis.net/44magboom.html

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    I know it sounds redneck but a wood screw the same size as the inside of your brass is what I use to remove broken shells . Just start the screw threads in the brass and pull . Needle nose pliers work well to pull with .
    I was a gun nerd before it was cool !

  25. #24
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    Yeah, Shucks. I've got over 8 spam cans plus loosely bought packs of milsurp fired thru my PSL, and she's never had a hiccough. Don't let one failure turn you away from the PSL. Sheeeit, if we look at it that way, we might as well sell every gun every one of us has, and take up golf! I've been hit by 7 cars in my life, I still ride my old bikes...I just watch them damned Cagers alot closer, now.
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  26. #25

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    Like many others have said - I am very glad you are alright!

    I have 4+ cans of Russian light ball through my Cugir PSL - knock on wood - no problems yet. In my opinion you have to blame the manufacturer and not the rifle - I realize AK style rifles are not difficult to make, but it takes more than throwing parts together, especially when you dealing with 7.62x54. Personally I would not want a replacement rifle from this outfit, just my money back. I don't like lawsuits - and the legal system in general, but in this case maybe you should get some legal advice before you even send the rifle back.

  27. #26
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    Oh, it was very much out of battery.

    Anywho, the company is going to replace the rifle, upgrade the furniture, and cover shipping/transfer costs. I am very pleased with the service/support they have shown thus far.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zer0DazE View Post
    Oh, it was very much out of battery.

    Anywho, the company is going to replace the rifle, upgrade the furniture, and cover shipping/transfer costs. I am very pleased with the service/support they have shown thus far.
    Can't ask much more than that, although they could've offered to give you a clean pair of shorts. ;-)

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    By chance did you take any pictures of the rear trunnion?

  30. #29
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    this wouldnt have happened if the BATF assholes didnt rule the 3rd hole "a machine gun" which holds the sear that wouldnt let the rifle fire if not fully in battery , im suprised more guys arent getting hurt due to out of battery explosions because some ******* gov agency made the manufacturer remove the biggest safety feature designed into the rifle . ive had an ak blow up in my face 2 years ago, i needed 4 stitches in the top of my nose and had a bunch of cuts on my face when the top cover blew off and hit me in my face. thank god i had safety glasses on, or i probably would be blind in at least one eye, there was a deep gauge in the right lens
    I'd rather be right than politically correct.
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    check out the pics of my GECO 1929 tula sniper, 1895 winchester russian contract rifle in 762x54, Remington mosin cadet trainer with 03 lug, New England Westinghouse cadet rifle with US property stamps, 1927 izhvesk dragoon , 1929 izhvesk dragoon, instructie 91/30 rifle, m24 lotta , triple scope number pu sniper and others in my albums

  31. #30
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    The way that I understand that is: The additional hole, which is for the added sear, is actually the hole for the disconnect and override, which is a feature of the RPK, which is a light machine gun. An added feature of these parts is that they prevent an out of battery firing situation. The primary function, however, is to allow fully automatic fire, which is why the BATF&E recalled them. Not really an issue as far as F/A fire is concerned (you can't simply re-drill the holes and install the parts, or can you? haha!), but that was the determination for that recall.

    Weak firing pin springs, or the absence of them, combined with a protruding or soft primer can cause an out of battery firing, as can other issues. It all really comes down to the fact that when you have a mechanical object it can wear out or be in a situation to where it functions improperly. Additionally, anything inherently dangerous, IS dangerous and can lead to catastrophic failures.

    It's like riding a motorcycle: shit can and does happen.

    Oh, and I had my nose broken by an AK74 that slung it's receiver cover, so I know your pain.
    Last edited by TW1Kell; 06-18-2010 at 09:56 AM. Reason: addition
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    my buddy was on the army research and development team when the psl's were tested in Aberdeen proving grounds in the early 80's and is a walking encyclopedia on drags and psl's or as they incorrectly called them a "fpk"

    psl's were never full auto and never had a full auto disconnector, so it was strickly for the OOB function.

    i came home from the range after that happened and wife said "did you go 3 rounds with mike tyson?" i tried to use butterflys but they wouldnt keep it closed. i think your top cover hit you a little harder than mine hit me. i think mine hit my glasses more than my nose. the guage was at least 1/2 the thickness of the lenses. i normally dont wear them but thankfully i put them on that trip, as i was shooting steel plates with my handgun earlier.
    I'd rather be right than politically correct.
    looking for PU scopes #b07850, A89721 and PEM #b27948, i have its rifle,

    check out the pics of my GECO 1929 tula sniper, 1895 winchester russian contract rifle in 762x54, Remington mosin cadet trainer with 03 lug, New England Westinghouse cadet rifle with US property stamps, 1927 izhvesk dragoon , 1929 izhvesk dragoon, instructie 91/30 rifle, m24 lotta , triple scope number pu sniper and others in my albums

  33. #32
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    I think you misunderstood my remark. The PSL's that had the extra hole were PSL's made from RPK receivers, I thought that I put that in there, but now realize that I left that bit out. Correct: the PSL nor the SVD has ever been F/A as fielded by the Soviets.

    I "found out" about them (SVD/PSL) about that same time (early 80's) while in weaps familiarization at Ft. Benning with the Ranger Committee. The ability to put out that much firepower, at extended ranges, with their simplicity, ease of maintenance and ruggedness has it's appeal.
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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW1Kell View Post
    I think you misunderstood my remark. The PSL's that had the extra hole were PSL's made from RPK receivers, I thought that I put that in there, but now realize that I left that bit out. Correct: the PSL nor the SVD has ever been F/A as fielded by the Soviets.

    I "found out" about them (SVD/PSL) about that same time (early 80's) while in weaps familiarization at Ft. Benning with the Ranger Committee. The ability to put out that much firepower, at extended ranges, with their simplicity, ease of maintenance and ruggedness has it's appeal.
    Sorry, but you can't make a PSL from RPK receiver.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by v i t View Post
    Sorry, but you can't make a PSL from RPK receiver.
    Actually you can. The receiver on the original military PSL is an RPK receiver complete with the provisions for a full auto sear (which is unused in the PSL design) which is why the ATF ordered them cut for import. There was a batch from I believe TGI (correct me if I'm wrong on that one) that had receivers with the FA provision and were declared illegal which caused a mass recall back when they were first imported. I actually know a guy in my WWII reenactment group that still has one with the provision, and that receiver CAN in fact fit onto an RPK kit.
    Owner, sole proprietor, and chief of cantankerousness for Sergei's Armory.

  36. #35
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    THAT was the reason given for the PSL, that I returned during the big recall a few years ago, being recalled. I was passing on the information that I was given. I am not a builder, so I have no personal knowledge, but the people who issued the recall, stated that as the reason. I "assumed", since they ARE builders and had these particular rifles imported, then sold them, that they KNEW what they were talking about. As the BATF&E issued the recall for that reason, as well, I "assumed" it to be correct.

    You have anything else that would prove that wrong? It wouldn't change anything, they still recalled them, and we returned them as to do otherwise would put you in jeopardy as far as federal law and selective fire weapons are concerned, but would be interesting to know. That is the point of the info sharing that we do here.
    Last edited by TW1Kell; 06-19-2010 at 07:27 AM. Reason: typos
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  37. #36
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    The PSL receiver has "RPK bulges", but it is not the same and is longer.

  38. #37
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    ^
    for being OT in my thread you should trade bases with me

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtank View Post
    By chance did you take any pictures of the rear trunnion?
    nope, sorry

  39. #38
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    I was under the impression that military issue PSLs had/have a sear installed via the thrid axis hole which prevents the trigger from releasing unless the bolt is locked.

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcom the first View Post
    I was under the impression that military issue PSLs had/have a sear installed via the thrid axis hole which prevents the trigger from releasing unless the bolt is locked.
    Yes, a safety sear.

  41. #40
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    I apologize for it all being so OT.

    Has ANYone ever SEEN one of the PSL's with the addittional sear? I don't see how having the 3rd hole rifles recalled stopped ANY of us from having any of these problems, as I've never heard of anyone ever having one. It's all rather like "the scare" causing ammo and gun prices to go so high: hysteria causes alot of things to go awry. As no one has ever seen or bought one, I'd say that the additional sear is a non-issue.
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  42. #41
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    Looks like the gun is BONE DRY with no visable Lubricant to bolt/op rod cam/ rails/hammer or spring.

    How anyone expects a gun to lock/unlock/cycle properly without lubricant is a mystery to me, mechanisiam's need lubricant (grease) to function smootly and cycle reliably.

  43. #42
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    An excellent point, one I hadn't considered. All of my rifles (regardless of country of origin) get 'Garand Grease' on all sliding and camming points.

    Keith

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherandersonthepaladin View Post
    There was a batch from I believe TGI (correct me if I'm wrong on that one) that had receivers with the FA provision and were declared illegal which caused a mass recall back when they were first imported. I actually know a guy in my WWII reenactment group that still has one with the provision, and that receiver CAN in fact fit onto an RPK kit.
    *sigh* I'm sure your friend would be happy that you are broadcasting his possession of an illegal rifle all over the internet....

  45. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6mmintl View Post
    Looks like the gun is BONE DRY with no visable Lubricant to bolt/op rod cam/ rails/hammer or spring.

    How anyone expects a gun to lock/unlock/cycle properly without lubricant is a mystery to me, mechanisiam's need lubricant (grease) to function smootly and cycle reliably.
    Lubrication is to prevent WEAR....any weapon (yes even a Garand) should function Bone DRY! Cold weather military...and Desert Military instructions are to clean your weapon and assemble WITHOUT lubricant. Taxpayers will buy you a new one if it wears out....but it will work!
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  46. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6mmintl View Post
    Looks like the gun is BONE DRY with no visable Lubricant to bolt/op rod cam/ rails/hammer or spring.

    How anyone expects a gun to lock/unlock/cycle properly without lubricant is a mystery to me, mechanisiam's need lubricant (grease) to function smootly and cycle reliably.
    OMGZORZ!!!11oneoneone

    It wasn't dry until I sprayed it out with powder blast so I could get glare free pics. Sorry, next time I will post crappier pics for you.

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