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  1. #1
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    Default Show and Tell: My Yugoslavian/Serbian rifles

    Since all of the cool kids are showing theirs off, I figured I'd join in. Here are some pics of my Yugoslavian and Serbian rifles I have collected so far...

    Just when I was telling myself I wouldn't 'collect' anymore and just shoot and handload, I became interested in Yugoslavian Mausers. I still shoot and handload as much as I can, but these have become my collecting focus due to my fascination with pre- and WWII Yugoslavian history, and a deep appreciation for the craftsmanship of the Yugoslav rifles. As a result, I've focused on the rifles of that period, and some of the post-war, Communist era pieces with the exception of the M48s, which have never done anything for me. While I can't consider myself a serious collector of anything, it seems I'm more willing to pay higher prices for nice Yugoslav specimens than other types of rifles. Hope you guys enjoy the pics, but be warned: I have all the photographic skills of the average mountain gorilla...


    1.) 24/47 Mauser, Zabod 44 marked and built on a CXC FN produced rifle. A fairly typical refurb, with mint bore and a slick action. Matching numbers with nice tiger striping in the stock.

    2.) 24/47 Mauser, Radionica 124 marked. This came with an obvious break in the handguard, but it matches so nicely I really didn't want to mess with it. Stock is a refurbed Model 1924 stock, with 1.TRZ stamp.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2447 Zabod right overview.JPG   2447 Zabod left receiver.JPG   2447 Zabod right stock.JPG   2447 Rad left receiver.JPG   2447 Rad barrel shank.JPG   2447 Rad 1 TRZ.JPG  

    Last edited by Poot; 06-19-2010 at 08:22 PM.
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    Default M4/52c

    Here's my 24/52C, a really nice refurbed VZ-24 with many original Czech parts on it, including a rampant Czech lion marked rear sight and base. There's even a WaffenAmpt marked bolt release on this one. Another mint bore, and an intact stock disc indicating use by a Czech Jager regiment, I believe.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2452c left side.JPG   2452c overview.JPG   2452c barrel shank.JPG   2452c left receiver.JPG   2452c stock disc.JPG  
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    Default Model 1924B

    This is a VERY well-worn example of a Model 1924B built from a German Gewehr 98. There are loads of Fraktur-marked parts, with the typical cut-down stock. 0% blue remaining, and the same amount of finish on the stock. This one is kind of a 'place holder' for me until I can find a nicer example. On the upside, it's very light, has a very slick action, and it shoulders beautifully.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Model 1924b crest.JPG   M1924b bolt detail.JPG   M1924b right overview.JPG   M1924b left receiver detail.JPG   M1924b stock number.JPG   M1924B Front End.JPG  

    Last edited by Poot; 06-19-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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    Default Model 1924 Type II Cavalry Carbine

    This is the one that started it all for me...

    I thought I had just purchased a nice, bolt-only mismatch Model 1924, until a forum member advised me that I had a Type II Model 1924 Cavalry Carbine. I hadn't bought Branko's book yet, and didn't know what it was. Fortunately, it all fell in my favor, especially because the price was good even for a standard Model 1924. This fired my fascination for Yugoslav rifles, and it just took off from there.

    This is a 1935 dated carbine, bolt-only mismatch and duffel-cut by a returning veteran. All of the stampings and cartouches are crisp, and the stock has great figure and vibrancy. The magazine stops the bolt on an empty chamber, just like a K98k. German modification? No import marks and the duffel cut gets me wondering where this one was 'liberated,' and from whom. This one has definitely been fired, but the lands are still in nice shape. I think this was also a pupose-built Type II stock, as there is no allowance for a curved bolt of the Type I variety.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M1924 Cav right overview.JPG   M1924 Cav right overview 2.JPG   M1924 Cav duffel cut.JPG   M1924 Cav left receiver.JPG   M1924 Cav left view.JPG   M1924 Cav stock heel cartouche.JPG  

    M1924 Cav bolt relief.JPG   M1924 Cav floorplate.JPG   M1924 Cav left stock.JPG   M1924 Cav right stock cartouche.JPG  
    Last edited by Poot; 06-19-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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    Neat rifles, I like the stripes and I'd never heard of Yugos rebuilding Gew98s. For those of us who don't get heavy into a field, these kinds of walkthrough posts are invaluable. Plus, hey, what's the fun of having if you go all secret-squirrel instead of share 'em?

    Also, in before 03man complains about your title.
    Turk Pr0n!

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    Default Model 1924 CXC Rifle

    This is an all-matching, 100% original Model 1924 rifle with CXC ('Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes') marking, purchased from the very kind and gentlemanly LcMunn here at Gunboards (Thanks, Larry!). This one dates to 1929, and the stock is marked with the cartouche of King Alexander. This one has suffered some apparent battle damage, as seen by the small, jagged chunks taken out of the stock in places, possibly from an explosion. This only adds to my appreciation of it...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M1924 CXC shank top.JPG   M1924 CXC Barrel Shank Detail.JPG   M1924 CXC bolt.JPG   M1924 CXC Left Receiver Detail.JPG   M1924 CXC cartouche detail.JPG   M1924 CXC stock receiver numbers.JPG  

    M1924 CXC Floorplate.JPG   M1924 CXC markings details.JPG  
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    Very nice. These are all beautiful... makes me want to run out and find an all matching Serb Model 1924... then bring it home.

    Question about the M24/52c... can you read the earlier serial in the stock, if so, is it Czech or Romanian... all of the ones I have seen have been Romo so I'm curious...

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    Default Model 1924 FN built CXC Rifle

    Another CXC-marked rifle, this one a bolt-only mismatch made by FN-Herstal in Belgium. Part of the original Belgian contract for the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes. The stock was very lightly sanded by a previous cretin, er, owner, but the markings and cartouches are still visible and recognizable. The King Alexander cartouche is still there, along with other marks. A really neat rifle, and hard to locate. Even the underside of the rear sight ramp has the last two numbers of the serial number.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M1924 FN overview.JPG   M1924 FN shank detail.JPG   M1924 FN left receiver details.JPG   M1924 FN receiver detail.JPG   M1924 FN floorplate.JPG   M1924 FN stock cartouche.JPG  

    M1924 FN stock receiver numbers.JPG   M1924 FN rear sight number.JPG  
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    Default M95M Bulgarian contract/Serbian modified rifle

    This is one of the M95s acquired by Serbia/Yugoslavia and then upgraded to Model 1924 specs by adding a new barrel in 7.92x57mm, Model 1924 front and rear sights, an integral clip to accomodate the 8mm cartridge, a modified stock, and a heavily modified bolt with a special extractor. This work was contracted by the Poshinger firm and the rifles were issued to border guard, police and training units. Like all other types of Yugoslavian rifles, these were used in WWII by Chetniks, Partisans, Nazis, and Italian troops. Like the Cavalry Carbine above, this one was also duffel-cut by a returning vet. The Yugoslavs fitted this one in 'Cavalry Carbine' sling slots for mounted/bicycle use.

    This particular rifle is a Bulgarian contract, the most uncommon of the M95M variants, and it is in a very low serial number range, being under 20,000. It was built on a 1903 Steyr receiver.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M95M Bulg forestock.JPG   M95M Bulg cav band.JPG   M95M Bulg rear sight.JPG   M95M Bulg bolt.JPG   M95M Bulg floorplate.JPG   M95M Bulg left receiver.JPG  

    M95M Bulg shank detail.JPG   M95M Bulg BT3.JPG  
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    Default And...

    Last but not least, a bit of militaria. Yeah, it predates all of these rifles, but it goes along with the general theme...

    This is a Serbian medal commemorating the liberation of Kosovo in the 1912 Balkan War. It has the Serbian crest with victory leaves labeled with the names of towns on one side and the reverse shows an Orthodox monastery, artillery pieces, and a legend that reads, "Kosovo Avenged."

    Thanks for looking,
    Pat
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Serbian Balkan War Medal 1.jpg   Serbian Balkan War Medal 2.jpg  
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    Nice collection. I started my mauser collecting with a M1924b which is very similar to yours. The only difference is that mine has a bolt take down disk in the stock. The stock is well worn/sanded but can still barely make out the number and the Peter ll car touche.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Xygorak View Post
    Very nice. These are all beautiful... makes me want to run out and find an all matching Serb Model 1924... then bring it home.

    Question about the M24/52c... can you read the earlier serial in the stock, if so, is it Czech or Romanian... all of the ones I have seen have been Romo so I'm curious...
    Xygorak,
    I can't really tell if it's a Czech or Romanian stock, and there areno other visible numbers besides the one the Communist era Yugoslavs stamped on there. With so many other Czech aspects, I'd assume it's Czech.
    Best,
    Pat
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    Poot,

    Very nice rifles tied together by a theme. So much history there. Thank you for sharing!

    Larry

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    Nice Yugo collection, thanks for sharing. I am still missing an M1924B from my small 20th C Yugo Mauser collection but I'm still hopeful. I'd love to find a 1924CK but it falls in the "holy grail" category along with the bayonet.

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    Hey Poot, ..All very nice!!!.. but the Bulgarian marked M95M made me drool..need to go find a nappy or start wearing a bib while looking over this post : )

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    Thanks for the education! All very nice. Must stop and dry key board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer View Post
    Nice Yugo collection, thanks for sharing. I am still missing an M1924B from my small 20th C Yugo Mauser collection but I'm still hopeful. I'd love to find a 1924CK but it falls in the "holy grail" category along with the bayonet.
    I would LOVE to find a 1924ck, but you're right, that's a Holy Grail rifle. The bayonet would be at least as difficult to locate and about five times as expensive, too. Thanks for the nice comments guys-
    Pat
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    very nice rifles poot. I have never been able to focus on one particular nation for collection purposes but you have an awesome collection of Yugoslav only rifles. So far the only Yugo rifles that i have are a M48B, 24/47, and a YC K98k. Again, thanks for sharing these pics and the information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by surplusnut View Post
    very nice rifles poot. I have never been able to focus on one particular nation for collection purposes but you have an awesome collection of Yugoslav only rifles. So far the only Yugo rifles that i have are a M48B, 24/47, and a YC K98k. Again, thanks for sharing these pics and the information.
    Thanks surplusnut, sounds like you have a good assortment, too. Yours are likely to have very nice if not new bores, too.
    Pat
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    I can't do pictures today, but my show-off Serb is on page 306 MMR of the World 4th Edition.

    Thans John for the help.

    Dave

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    Darn nice collection!

    I do believe I'm the one told you you scored that carbine?

    Another thing, there is no such thing as a "Serb" model 1924. Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (CXC) til 1929 but still commonly called Yugoslavia. From 1929 until WWII Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

    I didn't notice any combat damage on that one rifle. But those drag marks on the side are common. I think I have them on two rifles.

    [ERROR about who was king of Yugoslavia when, DELETED That's why the corrections about it below-]

    Not too sure about the receiver line stamping of the serial number for the stock. That was a standard FN practice and an early Yugo (& Serb) practice. Still see it on some later stocks (and matching weapons) though. Still have no idea when the practice changed to putting the serial # on the butt.
    Last edited by nothernug; 06-30-2010 at 10:06 PM. Reason: delete error
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    Default CxC in Alexander stock?

    Alexander was assasinated in 1934 so it would seem unlikely there would be many rifles at all with his initial on them if he "didn't get is stamp on them until 1934". He came to power in 1929 and that is when the country was first called the Kingdom of Yugoslavia- I would think he would have had the elves at the firearms plant stamping his initial ASAP. So- was there a period when CxC marked receivers were used to build rifles under Alexander? I sold this rifle to Poot after owning it about 26 years- it is not import marked and was exactly as in the pictures when I bought it at the Kindig muzzel loading shop in Ohio in the early 80's; it was just an old military trade-in to them. Has anyone else a Kragujevac made rifle with the serial marked along the receiver line? Or CxC receiver and Alexander stock mark?
    Last edited by lcmunn; 06-28-2010 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Spelling!

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    Hi lcmunn,
    I've been buying original Yugoslav Mausers wherever I can find them for 15 years. In my experience, all M1924 Mauser rifles newly manufactured for both the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (CXC) and Yugoslavia, were marked with Alexander's "A" cartouche until his assasination in 1934. It's my belief that all M.1924 Yugoslav rifles and carbines were made with either the "A" or "II" stock cartouche. IMHO, those rifles without the cartouche are either badly battered, or have had their stocks sanded.

    Before being crowned King of Yugoslavia in 1929, Alexander had been crowned King of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes in 1921. As a consequence, all M.1924 short rifles and carbines made before 1934 will bear the "A" cartouche, whether made at Liege or at Kragujevec. I have several CXC rifles, and all have Alexander's cartouche...even those which have obvious signs of Wehrmacht reissue. Regarding the serial number marked along the receiver line, I'll have to check the rifles in the attic...but since its 140+ degrees up there, give me a few days until we have a bit of cooler weather. The local EMT's hate it when I start prowling around up there on hot days! :-)
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 05-13-2011 at 02:43 AM. Reason: more spelling fufu's

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    Default John, Thanks for the info on the stock cartouches.

    The thing that intrigued me about Poot's 1924 is that it is like new on the inside. I am reminded of my stint in a stateside arms room between overseas tours during the Vietnam War. I was sent to chemical warfare school to learn to tear gas Hippies and thereafter spent my days in the arms room replacing gasmask filters, and helping the armorer tear down and clean the .50 calibers from the tracks. The unit supplied a few men to the post guard mount every night and we sent them out with the same few rifles (rotating through the guys)- night after night. No sense having to clean all the rifles ahead of an inspection. So some got a lot of handling and some were virtual "safe queens". Lots of ways rifles can serve the same duty tour with very different wear and tear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poot View Post
    This is an all-matching, 100% original Model 1924 rifle with CXC ('Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes') marking, purchased from the very kind and gentlemanly LcMunn here at Gunboards (Thanks, Larry!). This one dates to 1929, and the stock is marked with the cartouche of King Alexander. This one has suffered some apparent battle damage, as seen by the small, jagged chunks taken out of the stock in places, possibly from an explosion. This only adds to my appreciation of it...

    Poot and Larry,
    If I'm not mistaken, this serial number, 6495, is not listed in Branko Bagdonovic's book. Check out his M.1924 serial number chart on page 92. He shows the first 100,000 Kragujevec M.1924's as have a "(A)" prefix. I wonder what he had in mind with the parentheses? Maybe he wasn't sure about the prefix? I have an M.1924 with a letter "II" suffix... letter "P". I can only conclude that there's still a lot to learn about Yugoslav Mausers!
    Reards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 06-29-2010 at 08:43 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcmunn View Post
    The thing that intrigued me about Poot's 1924 is that it is like new on the inside. I am reminded of my stint in a stateside arms room between overseas tours during the Vietnam War. I was sent to chemical warfare school to learn to tear gas Hippies and thereafter spent my days in the arms room replacing gasmask filters, and helping the armorer tear down and clean the .50 calibers from the tracks. The unit supplied a few men to the post guard mount every night and we sent them out with the same few rifles (rotating through the guys)- night after night. No sense having to clean all the rifles ahead of an inspection. So some got a lot of handling and some were virtual "safe queens". Lots of ways rifles can serve the same duty tour with very different wear and tear.
    Larry,
    Good observation. I'm wondering if this maybe happened in Yugoslavia too, but on larger scale. Every M.1924B and M1899 converted to M.1924 configuration I've ever seen was worn white and badly beat up. On the other hand, there are a good number of M.1924's, some even made by FN, which were brought home by returning ETO GI's (like Poot's rifle above) which show minimal wear....as if they intentionally kept as many newly made rifles in depot storage as they could.
    Regards,
    John

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    Default Poot's rifle one of the very first batch?

    I think Poot's rifle was likely one of the first serial batch made in country. There was no need for an "A" suffix when there were no B's. And it would likely explain early use of the FN stock serial convention. Another observation, mechanized units have the opportunity to see a lot of surface damage to a rifle but they do also have the ability to carry cleaning supplies and so keep up the bore condition. All kinds of possibilities. In Vietnam, we were issued a rifle when we arrived and carried it continuously for the tour. It was one of the few serial numbered items we were responsible for. I was very happy to get my original M16 back when I got out of the hospital after being wounded- my buddies dragged it off the field too. Then I was mad when I had to exchange it for a new one with a bird cage flash hider just before the end of my tour. I have a virtually new K98k that a local Veteran picked up from an arms rack in an abandoned German barracks in France. He was an engineer clearing buildings of explosives and he said he just picked out the "best one" from the rack, wrapped it in a blanket and stuck it behind the seat of their truck. Unlimited possibilities. John, thanks for the correction on Alexander's reign from 1921. He had a long run for a Balken politician. I think you almost have to have been born in the region to keep all the history (and grudges) straight.
    Last edited by lcmunn; 06-29-2010 at 10:26 AM. Reason: spelling!

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    You guys realize that this will all make me keep these rifles in my collection forever, right?!

    John and Larry, thanks for the on-going and informative discussion of these. I think Larry's right, the 6495 rifle is fantastic on the inside. Besides some carrying wear on the outside, there's also some damage that I mentioned in the description. There's even a small, old chunk of metal taken out of the barrel shank. The type of damage on this is consistent with what I've seen on rifles damaged in explosions. It's beyond dings and deep compressions, there's actually wood fiber missing in irregular, jagged chunks.


    The serials on these are consistent with the stock cartouches in Branko's book. A couple of weeks ago, I posted a question regarding the possibility of the different placement of the stock serial as being consistent with the date of manufacture. From my own limited observations of these rifles and photos of others, it appears that the earlier rifles were stamped just below the matching receiver serial number on the right side, while the later rifles received the stamp on the lower part of the left butt stock. John is correct; 6495 is not in the listed serial number range without a letter prefix. I can only guess about that one...
    Thanks again for sharing your knowledge-
    Pat
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothernug View Post
    Darn nice collection!

    I do believe I'm the one told you you scored that carbine?

    Another thing, there is no such thing as a "Serb" model 1924. Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (CXC) til 1929 but still commonly called Yugoslavia. From 1929 until WWII Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

    I didn't notice any combat damage on that one rifle. But those drag marks on the side are common. I think I have them on two rifles.

    Another thing. Technically, a CXC marked weapon should not be in a King Alexandar stock. CXC were only so marked until 1929. King Alexandar didn't get his stamp on them until 1934. Likely a later replacement?

    Not too sure about the receiver line stamping of the serial number for the stock. That was a standard FN practice and an early Yugo (& Serb) practice. Still see it on some later stocks (and matching weapons) though. Still have no idea when the practice changed to putting the serial # on the butt.
    Nug,
    My guess is that the serial stamping location changed over in the mid-30s, based only on casual observation. And yes, you and some other members here alerted me to the fact at the time that I had in fact bought a Cavalry Carbine! Thanks again!
    Pat
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcmunn View Post
    Alexander was assasinated in 1934 so it would seem unlikely there would be many rifles at all with his initial on them if he "didn't get is stamp on them until 1934". He came to power in 1929 and that is when the country was first called the Kingdom of Yugoslavia- I would think he would have had the elves at the firearms plant stamping his initial ASAP. So- was there a period when CxC marked receivers were used to build rifles under Alexander? I sold this rifle to Poot after owning it about 26 years- it is not import marked and was exactly as in the pictures when I bought it at the Kindig muzzel loading shop in Ohio in the early 80's; it was just an old military trade-in to them. Has anyone else a Kragujevac made rifle with the serial marked along the receiver line? Or CxC receiver and Alexander stock mark?
    You are quite correct. I got my Kings reversed.
    VERY SORRY FOR THE ERROR! Thanks for correcting it. May I claim being on meds confussed me?<sheepish grin>

    by the way, I am in the last stages of "restoring" a model 1924 CXC rifle. It has gone through a couple of stages to get to here. I'll post it when done. But after many years, I finally found a non refurbed stock with a king Alexandar cartouche. Prior to this I had a 24/47 stock with an amazingly complete King A cartouche and before that a plain 24/47 stock- the CXC came to me in an M48 stock. This 'new' stock, it's pretty beat but so is the rifle so they actually match up well. It only has a serial number on the receiver line that is so nearly obliterated you can't really tell it doesn't match. :D

    I also have so 24/47s showing cartouche traces and receiver line serial traces as well. I'll see if I can manage an inventory.
    Last edited by nothernug; 06-29-2010 at 12:41 PM. Reason: add additional comment
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    Hello Gents,

    Very nice collection! Thank you for sharing these interesting rifles with us. I sometimes wish I could expand my collecting to post WWI in several specific areas, this being one of them! But that would let the genie out of the bottle!


    Everything in my Serbian Collection is dated 1918 or earlier.

    Thanks again for sharing these rifles with us.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Serbian Model 1884 Cavalry Carbine 1R.JPG   Model 1878-80 Serbian Mauser 1R.JPG   Serbian M1908 Carbine 1-R.JPG   Serbian Mausers 99 - 99-07-08-10 w - bayosR1.JPG   M78-80SerbianMauserActionLeftViewR1.JPG   M78-80SerbianMauserActionRtSideViewR1.JPG  

    M78-80SerbianMauserActionTopViewR1.JPG   Serbian M1899 Infantry Rifle 1-R.JPG   Serbian M1899 Infantry Rifle 2-R.JPG   Serbian M1899 Infantry Rifle 3-R.JPG   Serbian M1899 Infantry Rifle 5-R.JPG   Serbian M1899 Infantry Rifle 6-R.JPG  


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    John Wall is online now Diamond Member with Oak Leaves and Swords
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,233

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    Hi John,
    Outstanding collection and great photos! For me, there are four Holy Grail Serbian rifles and you have two of them, the M1908 carbine and the M.78/80 long rifle. The other two I need are the Serbian-crested M.1910 long rifle and artillery carbine...none of which promise to show up soon in my collection!
    Regards,
    John
    Last edited by John Wall; 06-29-2010 at 03:11 PM. Reason: splling

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    It's everything...
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    JPS,
    Thanks for the kind words, and for sharing your Serbian collection with us. Those are some outstanding rifles, very very impressive indeed. I might need to keep a look out for a WWI-era Serbian rifle at some point. Like you, that just might lead to MORE money flying out of my pockets...
    Pat
    No one ever got into Valhalla unarmed.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laramie, WY area.
    Posts
    1,029

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    JPS- Beautiful specimens of rare pieces. Together, you and Poot have quite a bit of Southeastern European history covered. Nug, I'm glad you are feeling up to punching the keyboard. A plot of Balken history/politics is a spider web-confusing even without the drugs. I always admire people with the willpower to collect on a theme whereby a handful of carefully selected rifles can cover momentous history.

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