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  1. #1
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    Default S&W M&P or Victory model in 38 S&W value...

    I have the opportunity to purchase the above pistol for $100 plus shipping..haven't seen it personally..

    it has 5" barrel , and some maintenance issues..sticking cylinder release..it has been nickle plated..but looks in reasonable condition from the pix...

    I'm currently casting and reloading 38 S&W for my Enfield No 2,so ammo isn't a problem..

    I'm mostly a shooter who collects as opposed to a collector who shoots if it matters..

    thanks

  2. #2
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    The maintenance issues is the biggest concern for me here. If you are really confident that you can fix it, by all means, get it.

    For what it is worth, local store has nickel plated M&P (not Victory) for 1k USD, apparently that one is factory job. You probably know best about the one you are buying, but it could be factory nickel job too.

  3. #3
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    Not to steal the thread but have a question on the S&W Victory models. The story I have heard was that the S&W pistols that went to the UK during WWII were in the .38 S&W caliber and were used in WWII with 38S&W ammo. After the war they were converted to .38 Special by British gunsmiths for sale in the US. Is this a true story or was there some other twist on it as many S&W pistols are marked 38 S&W on the barrel but actually shoot the 38 Special round? Thanks.
    Bill

    "General Washington did not defeat the British Army with freedom of speech. He shot them."

    Every problem can be solved through the proper application of explosives, duct tape, teflon, WD-40, or any combo of the aforementioned items.

    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again!



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoy99 View Post
    Not to steal the thread but have a question on the S&W Victory models. The story I have heard was that the S&W pistols that went to the UK during WWII were in the .38 S&W caliber and were used in WWII with 38S&W ammo. After the war they were converted to .38 Special by British gunsmiths for sale in the US. Is this a true story or was there some other twist on it as many S&W pistols are marked 38 S&W on the barrel but actually shoot the 38 Special round? Thanks.
    It is somewhat true. Some of these revolvers were converted. Here, this will help you: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ory-conversion

  5. #5
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    That is kinda' sorta' right. Most of the WWII S&W M&Ps (pre-Victory & Victory revolvers) in .38 S&W went to Commonwealth countries (in fact, the S&W was the standard sidearm revolver for the Canadians, rather than the Enfield or Webley), where they fired a somewhat more powerful round (the .38/200 Mk I, aka the .38 Super Police; these have 200 grain bullets rather than the usual approx 150 grain .38 S&W bullet) than the standard .38 S&W round. Some of these were outright purchases by Commonwealth countries (again, the Canadian military had been using S&W Hand Ejectors for a long time), while others sent out under the Lend Lease program.

    After WWII, surplused pistols (many remained in military inventory for decades) were sold off, and some of those were rechambered into .38 Special, mainly by reaming the chambers in the cylinder (a .38 Special is too long for a .38 S&W chamber, and the .38 S&W is too wide for a .38 Special chamber). This was mostly done by US importers, but some by British (and probably other) companies. But since .38 S&W (and .38 Super Police) ammunition was readily available in the US, many were not modified. Modified revolvers should have ".38 S&W CTG" crossed out and ".38 Special CTG" stamped on the barrels or frame, but this did not always happen.

    Since .38 S&W-.38/200-.38 Super Police rounds and .38 Special rounds are different diameters and lengths (the .38 Special is longer and narrower), the converted pistols are generally regarded as less accurate, potentially hazardous, and devalued for collectors -- sort of like the Webley .455 revolvers "cut" to use the .45 round. The preferred way to safely convert the .38 S&W to the .38 Special is by swapping in a .38 Special cylinder and barrel.

    BTW, a few hours after shooting JFK, Lee Harvey Oswald killed Dallas police officer JD Tippit with a S&W Victory .38 S&W converted to .38 Special, and the barrel cut down to 2.5"; it cost him just under $10 from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago, which was a major mailorder firearms retailer. (See The Warren Commission Report for details; of course, not everyone accepts everything in the Warren Report.)

    Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBoy99 View Post
    Not to steal the thread but have a question on the S&W Victory models. The story I have heard was that the S&W pistols that went to the UK during WWII were in the .38 S&W caliber and were used in WWII with 38S&W ammo. After the war they were converted to .38 Special by British gunsmiths for sale in the US. Is this a true story or was there some other twist on it as many S&W pistols are marked 38 S&W on the barrel but actually shoot the 38 Special round? Thanks.

  6. #6
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    i did'nt know that about oswald. my lend lease victory is in .38 S+W.
    " Dude with a pencil is worse than a cat with a machinegun"... Bo Diddley

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=falm16;1411786]i did'nt know that about oswald. my lend lease victory is in .38 S+W.[/QUOTE]

    That would be correct for it.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  8. #8
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    I learned an awful lot..I'll actually have 2 pistols coming then...one I bought here, which hasn't shipped yet, and one I'm about to buy...I think that my son will get one plus some ammo for XMAS..

    I'm guessing that I can check the reamed length in the cylinders and slug the barrels with my .363 diameter cast boolits to verify that they have correct cylinders,serial numbers and barrels..?

    Nobody screamed..DON't BuY IT..., so I guess I'll purchase a Smith shop manual and commence to gunsmithing...I need a Fall project anyway...

  9. #9
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    Default S&W Conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Shy View Post
    After WWII, surplused pistols (many remained in military inventory for decades) were sold off, and some of those were rechambered into .38 Special, mainly by reaming the chambers in the cylinder (a .38 Special is too long for a .38 S&W chamber, and the .38 S&W is too wide for a .38 Special chamber). This was mostly done by US importers, but some by British (and probably other) companies. But since .38 S&W (and .38 Super Police) ammunition was readily available in the US, many were not modified. Modified revolvers should have ".38 S&W CTG" crossed out and ".38 Special CTG" stamped on the barrels or frame, but this did not always happen.

    Bill
    I guess that is exactly what happened to my S&W Victory model. The pictures below show the conversion inscription but the barrel is still marked 38 S&W CTG. When looking into the individual chambers, you see where the cylinder was reamed for the longer .38 Special rounds as there is a slight "ring" about 2/3 of the way down the chamber. The serial number on the cylinder matches the butt number.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PICT0309.jpg   PICT0307.jpg   PICT0308.jpg  
    Bill

    "General Washington did not defeat the British Army with freedom of speech. He shot them."

    Every problem can be solved through the proper application of explosives, duct tape, teflon, WD-40, or any combo of the aforementioned items.

    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again!



  10. #10
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    So am I correct in assuming that I can still shoot 38 S&W in all revolvers originally chambered for the cartridge as long as the barrel hasn;t been changed,,even if the cylinder has been reamed slightly to accept a 38 special case?

    Seems like accuracy would be better..even allowing for the slight "Jump" in the reamed cylinder...?

  11. #11
    Clyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swabbie View Post
    So am I correct in assuming that I can still shoot 38 S&W in all revolvers originally chambered for the cartridge as long as the barrel hasn;t been changed,,even if the cylinder has been reamed slightly to accept a 38 special case?

    Seems like accuracy would be better..even allowing for the slight "Jump" in the reamed cylinder...?
    Yes, your gun is safe with 38 S&W, and taht is what you should shoot in it. And even though it has been altered to allow 38 Spl cases to chamber, in my opinion, they should NOT be used in it. The 38 Special has a case diameter of .379" and the 38 S&W .386". That .007" undersize leads to a substantial bulge in the 38 Spl case, and weakens it so that case life is reduced if you reload. Probably safe for one-time use (that is, you toss the cases after firing), or I guess you could reload using altered -to handle the longer cases - 38 S&W dies.

    Do NOT fire these guns with +P ammo, especially not +P 38 Spl ammo. Not that i am aware of any +P 38 S&W ammo...

    The USUAL bullet diameter for 38 Special is .357", though a lot of people load .358-.360" lead bullets. The nominal bullet diameter for 38 S&W, per my references, is .359". And - according to what I have seen, the makers use the same barrels for both 38 Special and 38 S&W, altering only the stamping. You can shoot, without harm, and with accuracy, 38 S&W ammo through a 38 Special barrel
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  12. #12
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    Clyde..thank you muchly for the confirmation..I have access to 38 special bullets at .359 and 38 S&W bullets at.362 so I'll slug the barrels of both pistols when they arrive and load accordingly..it's nice to know to look for evidence of cylinder reaming and such..

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