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Thread: Finnish marked Oberndorf Swedish Mauser - pic heavy

  1. #1
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    Default Finnish marked Oberndorf Swedish Mauser - pic heavy

    I just received a 1899 Oberndorf Swedish Mauser that is Finnish marked. It is my first Mauser of any kind, and one that I've been wanting to add to my mostly Finnish collection.

    It is my understanding that there were roughly 77,000 of these M/96's sold to the Finns, and another approx. 7,000 were added via the Swedish volunteers who aided the Finns during the Winter War (see http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Other-Finns-Main.asp). It is figured that due to the small number of Oberndorfs made as compared to the Carl Gustafs this rifle is perhaps a bit more uncommon. There is an interesting discussion on the Finnish marked M/96's on the Swedish forum (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ish-marked-m96).

    Anyways, let's get back to my rifle. The only parts that I've found that are non-matching are the rear and middle barrel bands. The bore is very shiny and the rifling is sharp. It also came with a Swedish sling. The stock disk is deciphered to read 11th Company, 13th Infantry, rifle #183 if the photo I used to figure this out is correct.

    Beyond that, I don't know enough about it to comment further.

    I'm looking for feedback, praise, comments, and critiques...not necessarily in that order At $400 I probably paid too early (as in too much), but those who are more informed that I will have a better idea of that.

    Feel free to chime in!















    "When Stalin says dance, a wise man dances."
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    I am looking for a pre-war or war-time M38 stock

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    Due to my lack of knowledge on these matters, all I can say is WOW!
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    Beautiful Finn! I have yet to see a Finn marked Swede.
    Gary


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    Given the relative scarcity of these, in my opinion, you got it at a basement bargain price. I do hear they are plentiful in Michigan, at least I read where Vic wrote he had 2 such M96 rifles, SA marked Oberndorfs, in his collection.

    SlimTim
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    These are neat rifles with a portion of their past known to us. I picked up a 1922-dated m/96 with a Finnish usage mark a few years ago. It's one of my gems.
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    I like it !!!!!!! Mauser M-96's are not RARE , as 45,000 were made , but I have seen only a few with the "SA" mark on the receiver . Your's is RARE !!!!!!!! Nice looking & a steal at $400 . It is a typical arsenal rebuild . It has a replacement beech stock , so check the barrel channel for matching numbers . I have seen few beech stocks with a fiddleback pattern , so that is RARE . The bolt is a replacement which was force matched to the rifle . You need to check the crowns stamped on all of your parts . The original mauser crowns have a rounded ( or sagging ) base line . Replacement Carl Gustaf parts have crowns with a straight base line . Husqvarna replacement parts will have a crown with a straight base line , but the crowns will be tilted . Not sure about the sling , but " HV " is usually a Danish marking . Unusual to see a Unit disc on the stock that is parallel to the stock . Usually they are 90 degrees , so they can be seen when standing in the rack .

    Congratulations on your first mauser , a real keeper .

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    I have a 1922 Finn Marked M96. It's one of my favorite Mausers and one of my favorite calibers. They are a great addition to a Finn rifle collection. Thanks for sharing your find!

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    the swedes fought with the finns as mercenaries from

    information i gotten.



    FIVESHOT

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVESHOT View Post
    the swedes fought with the finns as mercenaries from

    information i gotten.
    Incorrect. There were Swedish volunteers serving in Finland during World War 2, but they were not motivated by money, since they were not paid more than the small daily allowance paid to all Finnish soldiers. This allowance was so small, that if they had been mercenaries they would have been the clearly the cheapest mercenaries ever to fight anywhere.

    During late Winter War in February - March 1940 a Brigade-size Swedish-Norwegian Volunteer Force (SFK) fought in Finland. During first year of Continuation War (1941) Finnish Army had a battalion created from Swedish volunteers fighting in Hanko/Hango Peninsula. After most volunteers of that battalion had returned home (Finnish troops took Hanko/Hango peninsula in December of 1941) those volunteers that still wanted to continue were gathered as a rifle company, which continued to serve in Finnish Army until 1944.

    Bit of information about the daily allowance used in Finnish Army during World War 2: It depended the rank of soldier receiving it with higher the rank always resulting a small "bonus". Year 1943 Army private serving in the frontline was paid basic allowance of 10 Finnish Marks per day and 6 Finnish Marks per day as frontline bonus, in other words total 16 Marks per day. Sergeant also serving in the frontline was paid basic allowance of 12 Marks per day and 6 Marks as frontline bonus, so total 18 Marks per day. Additional bonus was paid for those men with families, this depended the number of children that they had - the usual bonus for those with family (wife and child) was 600 Marks per month, additional 200 Marks per month for 2nd child, additional 150 Marks per month for 3rd child etc...

    To get some idea how much 16 Marks per day or 18 Marks per day was, in year 1943 in Finland:
    - The basic salary of metal worker in industry was 18.80 Marks per hour.
    - Half-a-liter bottle of cheap booze cost 150 Marks.
    - Movie ticket cost 13.88 Marks.
    - Half-a-kilo of butter (when available - there was rationing) cost 24 Marks.

    So if would have been motivated by money they would not have volunteered to Finnish Army, since they would have earned considerably better in civilian jobs. Due to much of the male population mobilised to Armed Forces, finding civilian job in Finland would have been easy - but then, Sweden had higher salary level, so just staying in Sweden and having a civilian job there would have paid even better.

    BTW: Very nice rifle. I have lately been shooting old service rifle competions here in Finland with SA-marked M/96 dated 1923.

    Jarkko
    Last edited by JTV; 10-30-2010 at 02:32 AM. Reason: adding text

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    Thank you for the kind words guys! I thought it looked great, and I knew that a Finn-marked Swede was something a Finn collector has to have. (Just like we have to have the rest of them we buy, right?)

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTim View Post
    Given the relative scarcity of these, in my opinion, you got it at a basement bargain price. SlimTim
    I truly had no idea of the market on these. I just figured I'd go as high as what we see on a really nice M27/M28/M28-30 and see what happened. It is better to be lucky than good, huh?!

    Quote Originally Posted by swede View Post
    I like it !!!!!!! Nice looking & a steal at $400 . It is a typical arsenal rebuild . It has a replacement beech stock , so check the barrel channel for matching numbers . I have seen few beech stocks with a fiddleback pattern , so that is RARE . The bolt is a replacement which was force matched to the rifle . You need to check the crowns stamped on all of your parts . The original mauser crowns have a rounded ( or sagging ) base line . Replacement Carl Gustaf parts have crowns with a straight base line . Husqvarna replacement parts will have a crown with a straight base line , but the crowns will be tilted . Not sure about the sling , but " HV " is usually a Danish marking . Unusual to see a Unit disc on the stock that is parallel to the stock . Usually they are 90 degrees , so they can be seen when standing in the rack .

    Congratulations on your first mauser , a real keeper .
    Thank you! The information on the crowns to determine the manufacturer of the parts is very helpful! Perhaps I will post some more pics of the individual to see/show what is on there exactly.

    I am not sure what you mean about checking the numbers in the barrel channel though. Is this something that requires removing the stock?

    Very informative post JTV, thank you!!
    "When Stalin says dance, a wise man dances."
    N. Khrushchev in Khrushchev Remembers

    I am looking for a pre-war or war-time M38 stock

  11. #11
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    Yes , the stock & handguard numbers are in the barrel channel on Swedish mausers . You need to disassemble your rifle to see them . Also , the triggerguard is numbered on the inside of the back end of the mag well . Only seen when disassembled . However , the crown is on the front end , outside , just forward of the mag floor plate . A Mauser crown with the sagging base line would probably indicate the number is matching . Post more photos when you have time .

    Here is the other recently found "SA" marked Mauser M-96 , but dated 1900 . Here is another 1900 that has the "SA" stamped in the left front corner of the receiver . It is more common in this position .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mauser SA. 1900-3.jpg   Mauser SA. 1900.jpg  
    Last edited by swede; 11-03-2010 at 10:28 PM.

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    That's a great find and I do not believe $400 is too much given that it is SA marked. My 1900 Oberndorf M1896 Mauser without Finnish stamps cost me the same.

    And for anyone interested in more info about the Swedish volunteers you can read Swedish Volunteers in the Russo-Finnish Winter War, 1939-1940 by Martina Sprague. Its in English and is published by McFarlane in the States. Opened my eyes as to the tightrope the Swedes walked in WW2. And to Swedish Military prowess in that period - the Swedes were as unprepared for war as most. Years of military neglect. Reminds me of the saying "If you want to live in peace, prepare for war."
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