Results 1 to 27 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    frown Mosin Nagant bolt head and ejector, possibly receiver problems; anyone got any ideas?

    I found an M91/30 in a pawn shop a ways back, first rifle that wasn't for the service, figured I'd buy something a bit bigger so I could get an actual feel for a rifle. there was a beat up rifle in the back of a pawnshop for $75, had no idea what it was, but it was in bad shape, took it home, IDed it as an 1943 Izhevsk Mosin Nagant M91/30. The bolt was frozen in place, had to work it out with some penetrating lubricant and a dental pick, got that workign again. Cleaned it out, have yet to get the bore checked, though the rifling is still there, it's shiny with some pitting, but I think it's okay, will consult a gunsmith. Got the stockback up to snuff, filled in a lot of the gashes in it, did my best to repair the markings and cartouches, though it looks a bit rough. It probably isnt worth much, but it's got character, and I love it. I finally got some ammo for it, though, 203 grain bi-metal SP, boat tail, zinc plated steel case, and the bolt head wont latch around the base of the cartridge. This is my first rifle, so I dont know how deep the issue runs, but here's a brief assessment: the round in the magazine just rests there, has a LOT of play, and there's not much force against the round as it slides forward, so maybe it's not enough pressure against the bolt head, and when it DOES latch on, varying between 1 to 5 rounds pressed into the barrel between each successful grab, I have only had one successful ejection, in the sense that it has bounced out of the rifle being a successful ejection. the round falls out of the chamber when it doesnt extract properly, so Maybe the chamber got bored out somehow? if anyone has any ideas, I'll look into them, and report what I can. I want to put some rounds downrange at some point with this rifle, but dont know what to do about this issue.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    324

    Default

    First:welcome to the forum, this is a great place,
    you sure you have the right ammo? go get some surplus 7.62x54R ammo on the cheap, and see it will work. I have not heard 203g Bi metal SP for the 7.62 russian round. With a longtime disused M91-30, you have to use some force ( slam) the bolt forward to close and pull the bolt back with force and speed to eject the brass. Also clean the receiver wall and the barrel before go to the range. If use surplus ammo, make sure clean the bolt face and the bore right away, as the salt in the primers will rust your gun.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    324

    Default

    forget to say, also clean the under side of the ejector, so there will be some room and movement to grab the brass.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    the lip on the casing does not fit under the lip on the ejector. will find some Milsurp ammo, hopefully it fits. I will also be attempting to modify the round with a file around the lip. will post results. any ideas where I could get some 7.62x54r bullets sans casings? will try reloading at some point, so far I've only seen people using 7.62 NATO bullets in brass casings for this caliber.

  5. #5

    Default

    Sounds like a dirty chamber to me. When you finally fire it you will be suffering from "sticky bolt syndrome".

    What you should do is search on Sticky bolt syndrome and find what technique will fix your problem. I used a brush with deleading wool (stainless scouring pad) on a drill. Be careful to not damage the chamber or the rifling
    .
    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may. "
    Sam Houston

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    found a little bit of carbon in there. will get out the oil and swabs ASAP

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    got it cleaned out until the swabs were coming out clean, put a little bit of Hoppes Gun Oil in the chamber, cycled it through, wiped it out all the way through the barrel from the breech forward. it now grabs the round, but only when I lock the action slowly.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Welcome to the boards. Did you completely disassemble the bolt? If the outside of the rifle was in bad shape, lord knows what crud lies within. Try and buy some brass cased surplus ammo, like Yugo, it may reduce any "sticky bolt" problems you may run into. Congrats on the rifle and post some before and after pics, if you can. We love those here.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    the lip on the casing does not fit under the lip on the ejector. will find some Milsurp ammo, hopefully it fits. I will also be attempting to modify the round with a file around the lip. will post results. any ideas where I could get some 7.62x54r bullets sans casings? will try reloading at some point, so far I've only seen people using 7.62 NATO bullets in brass casings for this caliber.
    wouldnt it be easier to clean the chamber and replace/clean the extractor?
    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may. "
    Sam Houston

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    so far I've only seen people using 7.62 NATO bullets in brass casings for this caliber.
    Wait, WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

    That's not a good thing. Use the right round!!! You can get 440-round spam cans for NOT much money. Check out AIM Surplus, J&G Sales, and other places. GET THE RIGHT AMMUNITION.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
    Wait, WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

    That's not a good thing. Use the right round!!! You can get 440-round spam cans for NOT much money. Check out AIM Surplus, J&G Sales, and other places. GET THE RIGHT AMMUNITION.
    Yah yah! Most of my Mosins only see surplus x54r. Russian, Chinese, Yugoslavian, Czechoslovakian, etc etc. Take your pick. Its cheap and plentiful. There is no need to outthink this rifle. It is very simple, designed to take rugged use and extreme abuse. Do some more reading before you start filing anything.

    got it cleaned out until the swabs were coming out clean, put a little bit of Hoppes Gun Oil in the chamber, cycled it through, wiped it out all the way through the barrel from the breech forward. it now grabs the round, but only when I lock the action slowly.
    You need to completely disassemble that bolt and clean it. The fact that it is now starting to work tells me you are proceeding in the right direction, but aren't quite there yet. See here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinDisassembly.htm

    Keith

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,564

    Default

    Yes, the bolt is easy as pie to disassemble, clean , and reassemble. When you remove the bolt-head you'll see that it has built into it a tool for unscrewing the firing pin. How ingenious is that? I definitely would not cycle ammo through the action without disassembling and cleaning the bolt first. No telling what could happen. Reading your description of the problem I can't help but think the issue is the ammo.

    I've never had to file anything on a Mosin-Nagant. I'd be surprised to hear that you had to do so.
    This is *My Rifle*

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    when I say 7.62 NATO, I am talking about hand-made rounds. the 54r bullet itself is apparently hard to come by, so I have seen people using smaller bullets for extreme long range target shooting. I dont know why, I've never done anything like that before, my experience is limited to the .223 round so far. the bolt has been taken down to it's basest components as far as I can tell, i even went so far as to disassemble the trigger assembly when i first got it. The bolt has been completely disassembled and cleaned and reassembled on a weekly basis for the past 6 months, when I wanted to keep working on it but also had other things to do and couldnt find time to do any major work on it. I polished the bolt because the action was stiff and I had to use the full force of my arm on it at one point. I wasnt filing the rifle or bolt, either, I went after the lip with a dental pick. the base of the round got filed at an angle so it would fit under the lip of the ejector in the hopes that the zinc plating on the round was throwing off the tolerances, which is not the case, unfortunately.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I was also told not to pound out the ejector without the aid of a smith, which I have followed that advice, if only because I wouldn't know how to get it back in aside from brute force, but I digress. I have also not taken the barrel off, too much work IMHO, I can clean everything I need to with ease so far...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    N.E.Iowa
    Posts
    3,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    and the bolt head wont latch around the base of the cartridge.
    Make sure to clean under the extractor very well, sometimes there is a lot of junk under them. After you completely disassemble the bolt get some brake cleaner and spray it out, then wipe it down with an oily rag.


    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    the round in the magazine just rests there, has a LOT of play, and there's not much force against the round as it slides forward
    That's right, the extractor won't latch over the cartridge rim until the round is chambered.


    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    I have only had one successful ejection, in the sense that it has bounced out of the rifle being a successful ejection. the round falls out of the chamber when it doesnt extract properly
    Make sure that the extractor cut-out in the chamber is free of dried cosmoline. Brake cleaner, dental picks, q-tips, whatever you can get in there with to clean it out.
    Make sure also that the ejector is free to move (left side of the receiver). They get dried cosmoline and dirt build up that needs removed.
    Sometimes the stock needs to be taken off and the cut-out in the stock where the ejector moves in and out of may need a small sliver of wood removed for proper movement.

    *Edit*
    You may have a bent extractor. If that's the case you'll probably have to replace it.
    Last edited by zippyhuntin; 11-09-2010 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Added info
    Well, me ... It's nice talking to myself
    A credit to dementia

  16. #16

    Default

    Is there resistance closing the bolt? If there is the chamber is probably dirty and regular cleaning won’t get the melted gunk that coats the chamber from the steel cases. If the cases are being forced into a really dirty chamber then the extractor is being pulled off the case because the case is sticking in the chamber. Thus damaged extractors.
    Mosins are fun to beat on, after all it cost 75 bucks! Go ahead and pound it out ,there are You Tube Videos to show you how. A gunsmith would cost more than the rifle!
    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may. "
    Sam Houston

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    no resistance closing the bolt, not sure how to get under the extractor, though it may be bent, I dont have a reference to compare it to.

  18. #18

    Default

    Well, thats as good a reason as any to purchase some more Mosins so you can have some to compare!
    "Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may. "
    Sam Houston

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,564

    Default

    What's that sound? I do believe it's the BTF (Brown Truck of Fun) outside your house with another Nosin-Nagant.
    This is *My Rifle*

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,242

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter.Steele View Post
    Wait, WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

    That's not a good thing. Use the right round!!! You can get 440-round spam cans for NOT much money. Check out AIM Surplus, J&G Sales, and other places. GET THE RIGHT AMMUNITION.
    You have had some good advice, make sure that the rifle is free of crud and get some correct ammo to try before doing anything else.
    ukrifleman

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Abita Springs La.
    Posts
    799

    Default

    My .02 would be to strip and clean the bolt and try soaking it in mineral spirits to dissolve as much invisible goo as possible, blow the bolt dry with compressed air and repeat. The amount of varnish and goo these rifles hold can be quite surprising. With the feed issue make sure the magazine assembly is clean and free moving also, remove and soak or spray with brake cleaner. As discussed earlier, clean the ejector/extractor and chamber. You may want to try cycling the action with different rounds as the first batch may have some goo/trash on them or maybe (if milsurp) sticky lacquer or damaged rims on the cartridge.

    With regard to the extractor, soak and move slightly , repeat and see how much goo comes out from the spring.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Middle TN
    Posts
    501

    Default

    i think we need some pictures!!!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,564

    Default

    My thoughts exactly!
    This is *My Rifle*

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Something that I've found can be quite helpful in cleaning these guns is a cheap ultrasonic cleaner. I bought the biggest one from Harbor Freight, cost something like $60 or so, and it's big enough that I can put an AR-15 lower receiver in it, if I take off the buffer tube, plus about 4 Mosin bolts and a disassembled Ruger 10/22 (minus the stock and the barrel, anyway). Simple Green and water for a cleaning solution. The machine gets that water hotter than hell, hot enough that when I take a metal part out I really don't want to handle it without gloves. The water evaporates completely off it in 10-15 seconds, with how hot it is.

    I haven't tried yet sticking the receiver end of a barreled Mosin action in there yet, although I did do that with my M&P 15-22 upper receiver. I probably ought to test it out with one of my Carbines ... it should clean the living hell out of the chamber, and get all the gunk out of the insides ...

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    n.w.Oh
    Posts
    71

    Default

    sounds like your not loading the magazine correctly. are you stripping the rounds off the mag or are you loading the chamber with your fingers? also do not file on the cartridges! but yea, clean clean and get the right ammo.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    southern Minnesota
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Ill need to find my camera to get you pictures, but I have some pictures online at invertedteapot.deviantart.com, pictures of when i first brought it home, and prepping. Got sidetracked and stopped taking pictures whilst getting the Cosmoline out.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    830

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by invertedteapot View Post
    the lip on the casing does not fit under the lip on the ejector. will find some Milsurp ammo, hopefully it fits. I will also be attempting to modify the round with a file around the lip.
    I have a 1927 ex-dragoon that was like that. The problem was a crud-hardened chamber. Once I cleaned it out, everything worked normally. You should never have to modify a round in any way to make it work.

    any ideas where I could get some 7.62x54r bullets sans casings? will try reloading at some point, so far I've only seen people using 7.62 NATO bullets in brass casings for this caliber.
    Some guns shoot best with .308 bullets. I reload, and I use .303 bullets in all my Mosins, none of which have seen a surplus round since I bought them. Works great.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •