I have a Llama Extra I inherited from my dad in the late l980s. Don't know how long he had it.
Markings on left side are: (top line):Gabiiondo Y Cia elgoibar(ESPANA). (bottom line): CAL 9 m/m 38 "LLAMA"
Markings on right side are: (slide): "LLAMA" EXTRA (receiver): SN# 35975 (below and slightly left): "gc" in an oval which apparently is the trademark of Gabiiondo and Cia.
I don't know if my dad ever fired it. It is in excellent condition and since 1992 I have fired about 5,000 rounds of .38 Super standard and +P loads with no pressure problems whatsoever. When I first started shooting it, it fired about four inches high and four inches to the left at 25 feet. I corrected the left strike by adjusting the rear sight. It now shoots about four inches low but dead center. Several weeks ago after shooting about 60 rounds loaded with 3.1 grains of Bullseye powder and a 153 grain Lee LRN cast bullet, I was able to score 93 out of a possible 100 with three bullseyes by compensating for the drop in my sight picture. Shortly after that, I changed to a Fiocchi commercial load with a 129 jacketed round nose bullet and fired 10 shots into a 2-inch circle...the best grouping I have ever had. Ordinarily the extreme spread of a group has been about 8-inches.
When I originally started reloading for this pistol, I selected the Lee 153 grain bullet because my research said the .38 Super was developed to have the same impact as a .45 without the heavy recoil. Using that information, I determined, rightly or wrongly, that the heavy bullet would be appropriate to meet that objective. But I always had accuracy problems. This summer I spent hours working up loads to finally get to the load mentioned above. After my experiece with the Fiocchi, I started working on loads with a 125 grain Lee LRN cast bullet and I'm getting pretty good accuracy with Winchester 231 powder at 4.7 grains. Interestingly, Fiocchi does not specify what powder it is using but I took one of their bullets apart and weighed the powder. It came in at 4.7 grains but the texture, while similar, did not match the texture of the W231. Plus, their bullet is 4 grains heavier than the Lee bullet.
Recently I replaced the original barrel with a stock 6-inch roto barrel from Sarco. The barrel fit perfectly and the stock barrel bushing from Sarco was very snug as it should be. The original barrel bushing is quite loose. On first firing of the new barrel, I had to hit the slide with the palm of my hand to get it to close but after firing about 30 rounds, it started functioning as well as it had with the original barrel. This was expected and is normal in breaking in new parts. However the new barrel still fires about four inches low. I have now replaced the original slide stop pin with a stock .45 slide stop, again from Sarco, which also fit perfectly and much more snuggly than the original slide stop. It has also been recommended that I replace the rear sight with a taller one or with an adjustable sight to obtain a zero adjustment and I am looking into that. Midway has a tall profile sight that should fit the dovetail for $14 and also has a Springfield Armory adjustable rear sight with a Novak cut dovetail tenon for $44. I would rather have the adjustable sight but I've been told I will have to file the dovetail groove significantly to get the Novak tenon to fit and I'm hesitant to do that. I'm gonna continue looking to see if I can find an adjustable rear sight that will fit the standard miltary dovetail.
There has been some mention here and other websites that .38 Super should not be fired in this pistol citing that it was designed for the much lower pressures of the .38 Auto. However, this thinking ignores the fact that the specifications of the 9mm Largo, which the Llama was also deslgned fo,r very closely match the specs of the .38 Super on the lower end. In working up loads for the 153 grain bullet I had some muzzle velocities that exceeded 2000 fps with no pressure problems. However, when I exceeded 1500 fps, I quickly stopped firing those loads because I was uncomfortable with both the sound of the shot and the recoil. I have attempted to keep muzzle veolcities at about 1100 fps which is where I am getting my best accuracy and where pressures are more in keeping with the specifications of the .38 Super standard loads. I do not load +P loads and have not chronographed any of the commercial +P loads that I have fired but I have encountered no pressure problems with commercial +P and the gun functions well when I use them.
There has also been information related on various websites that standard replacement parts for the military Colt .45 may or may not fit the Llama Extra, My experience so far is that every part I have purchased from Sarco has fit perfectly. This would indicate that replacent parts that fit any military M1911A1, regardless of supplier, should fit the Llama Extra,
There has also been speculation that the Llama Extra could be converted to .45 by changing out the barrel, bushing, magazine and slide. The new barrel that I installed has the same outside diameter as the Sarco .45 barrel and with the Sarco bushing it fits the Llama slide perfectly. This being the case, it should be possible to replace the Sarco .38 Super barrel with the Sarco .45 barrel and using the Saeco bushing, completely convert the weapon to .45...assuming that a .45 maqazine will work in the Llama...without the major expense of replacing the slide. I have tested a .45 Commander magazine in the Llama and it seemed to fit properly but the commander slide would not work so I was unable to cycle the weapon to check feed. At the time, I did not think to check the function with my slide in place. I also cannot speculate on how extraction and ejection will function without testing.
Once I complete my accurizing project, I may move forward with a .45 conversion. Since it appears that it would not be necessary to replace the slide, it appears the conversion could be done fairly inexpensively.
I don't know the age of this pistol but I've been told that if it has no date proof it is pre-1929. In any case, it has become my favorite pistol of half a dozen that I own and the one I shoot most. It's a great gun in beautiful condition and far better than the U.S. Government .45s I trained with when I was in the army.
This information is provided for the benefit of those who have questions about the Llama Extra and are based solely on my personal experience with this specific pistol. No recommendations are made or implied as to whether these experiences and procedures will work with any other Llama Extra. Any modification or changes made by any individual to their own weaon based on this information should be done at their own risk and with extreme caution.
I realize that this is the serial number thread and if this is too much information here, I would ask the moderator to move it to a better location.
Thanks
Len