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  1. #1
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    frown Bizarre Chinese Tokarev Magazine-Any ideas what it is??

    Howdy Guys & Gals! Well, as a "Tokarev-Guy", I just ran into one like I've never seen anyplace. It was advertised as a "Norinco 9 mm wide magazine", but my answer after cleaning it and lubing is: "No way!" Here are few pictures with a 9 mm Winchester FMJ cartridge. Any ideas what this may be for? Perhaps a tiny Tokarev-like dummy cartridge for a Tokarev-Replica Pistol?? All ideas gladly accepted!! Thank you!Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	374061DesertDave in sunny SE Arizona, USA, Land of the Free, Because of the Brave!
    Last edited by DesertDave; 11-21-2010 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Add more pictures

  2. #2
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    frown

    From what i see it looks like a Chin Tok Mag which had a spacer put in the back to handle a 9mm, this was normal practice with the mags for the 54 9mm model.

    Cheaper than making a whole new mag and if you take the spacer out it should work fine with X25 ammo!

    Your'e not a "Tok Guy"! LOL

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by vz58kid View Post
    From what i see it looks like a Chin Tok Mag which had a spacer put in the back to handle a 9mm, this was normal practice with the mags for the 54 9mm model.

    Cheaper than making a whole new mag and if you take the spacer out it should work fine with X25 ammo!

    Your'e not a "Tok Guy"! LOL
    +1

    Chinese single stack tokarevs came in three versions:
    1) 7.62
    2) 9 mm with 7.62 magazine well
    3) 9 mm with 9 mm magazine well.

    You got magazine for Version #2.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ij70 View Post
    +1

    Chinese single stack tokarevs came in three versions:
    1) 7.62
    2) 9 mm with 7.62 magazine well
    3) 9 mm with 9 mm magazine well.

    You got magazine for Version #2.
    Well, Actually, no. If you look closely at the second picture, you'll note that the bullet extends forward of the front of the magazine. There is no way to put another 9 mm in there and no way to put it into a pistol. I have a bunch of the wide (normal 7.62) magazines with strips in them. On those, the projectile nose does not protrude beyond the end of the magazine. I'll go post a couple of those pictures for comparison. Thanks for help!..DesertDave

  5. #5
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    Definitely not for the Norinco Model 213A Tokarev which is the variant which uses the insert inside the magazine body to convert for reliable feed with the shorter 9x19 round. Norinco Model 213B Tokarev uses a spacer inside the magazine well. The plate in your magazine is WAY WAY too big to be for a 213A. I own a Norinco 213A and the plate inside the magazine is maybe 5m/m thick.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertDave View Post
    Well, Actually, no. If you look closely at the second picture, you'll note that the bullet extends forward of the front of the magazine. There is no way to put another 9 mm in there and no way to put it into a pistol. I have a bunch of the wide (normal 7.62) magazines with strips in them. On those, the projectile nose does not protrude beyond the end of the magazine. I'll go post a couple of those pictures for comparison. Thanks for help!..DesertDave
    Yes, i had noticed all that, but simply had thought some BUBBA had converted it to handle some type of short HPoint ammo!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vz58kid View Post
    Yes, i had noticed all that, but simply had thought some BUBBA had converted it to handle some type of short HPoint ammo!
    Bubba sounds good.

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    Same thing with Keltec P-32's, originally they came with just 2 standard mags,but after yrs. some folks had probs with certain HPoints not feeding reliably, so they started selling them with 2 mags, 1 had a Spacer in it for short HPoints and the other didnt and was for .32 ball ammo!

    So i guess this is what was done to this mag. and someone put an extended long spacer in it!

  9. #9
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    I'm thinking it is for dummy rounds used in a Replica Tokarev.....I had a Walther P-38 Replica by MGC in 1967. The special shrunken mags took tiny cartridges hand-made for it so it would fire caps. This thing has a really professional insert/rod with caged spring. It is definitely "factory made", but by whom & for what? I will pull it apart again & shoot pictures of the inside. Thanks!!!! DesertDave

  10. #10
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    Might be .38 Super. Norinco made some TTs in that chambering back in the late 80s to early 90s time frame. I haven't seen one in a very long time. I don't think many were made. It was common for those guns to be sold as convertibles, with both .38 Super and 9X19mm barrels as I recall.

  11. #11
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    The .38 Super has a longer case than does the 9X19, so that is not what the mag is made for. The mag looks like it might be made for .380ACP or 9mm Makarov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Begemot View Post
    Might be .38 Super. Norinco made some TTs in that chambering back in the late 80s to early 90s time frame. I haven't seen one in a very long time. I don't think many were made. It was common for those guns to be sold as convertibles, with both .38 Super and 9X19mm barrels as I recall.
    Good thought and excellent recall!!! I checked dimensions and the .38 Super is actually a longer cartridge, so that won't work in this goofy magazine. BTW, someone just sold a .38 Super barrel on GB today. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=201400768 DesertDave

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    Quote Originally Posted by geladen View Post
    The .38 Super has a longer case than does the 9X19, so that is not what the mag is made for. The mag looks like it might be made for .380ACP or 9mm Makarov.
    Very good thoughts, both! I'll go get some ammo and check.Have not seen Mak or .380 barrels for Tokarev, but maybe one of you has. Again, thank you!...DesertDave UPDATE: 9 X 18 Makarov is the correct length but the diameter is slightly too big to load. It must be for .380. Anybody seen a Tokarev Barrel in .380? (Apparently, my .380 supply is exhausted; at least, I can't lay hands on any quick-like)....DD
    Last edited by DesertDave; 11-21-2010 at 09:36 PM. Reason: added information

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    Okay. Yeah. Had an early onset senior moment on this one. Well -- I'm betting you're right on the .380 idea. Anybody know if the Chinese sold TTs to European markets? Selling off cheap TTs chambered for .380 would make sense in markets where legal access to 9X19 and 7.62X25 are off limits to civilians.

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    I also had thought it may have been for a .380 or for blanks from the start, but i have never heard of a Tok using a .380?

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    You sure it's not a factory screw up with a spacer installed in an already narrow 9mm mag?

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    Quote Originally Posted by permafrost View Post
    You sure it's not a factory screw up with a spacer installed in an already narrow 9mm mag?
    Yep, Modelguncolletor on GunBroker tells me it is indeed a real factory magazine for a Hudson TT-33 Replica Pistol like this:Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	375174Thanks to all!Happy Thanksgiving to All! Thanks, Vic! Best Forum on the Web!..DesertDave

  18. #18
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    It may be, but those model cartridges pictured in the box look the same length as real 7.62. In addition, yours has a "dimple" on the side of the mag to hold the spacer in place which the model does not have. Maybe for a different version of the model.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarred52 View Post
    It may be, but those model cartridges pictured in the box look the same length as real 7.62. In addition, yours has a "dimple" on the side of the mag to hold the spacer in place which the model does not have. Maybe for a different version of the model.

    Noticed this also!

  20. #20
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    The original .38 Super China Sports conversion used the standard 7.62x25 mag as stated above. Here is the conversion unit as sold from China. (Barrel bushing which was included in this kit is in the gun) JH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails .38 Super 001.jpg  

  21. #21
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    Wow, Dave! A cap pistol, huh? You had me going there for awhile, thinking it might be for one chambered in 9x18 ultra, although I had never heard of one being done that way.

  22. #22
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    "shoots" blow back blanks, they use these in alot of movies...

  23. #23
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    Maybe Chinese Type 64 or 67 Silenced pistol in 7.65mm (32ACP). Try one of those rounds in there.
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  24. #24

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    I like the movie blank prop gun idea. TTs are very popular in asia, one of my favorite action films "Hard Boiled" shows many examples of TTs shooting blanks including a nickled one with a suppresser. That mag looks about right for the 7.62x25 blanks that I've seen in the past. Another remote theoretical possibility is 9x18 mak since it would be a logical first conversion idea in com block countries, though I've never seen such a thing.
    Every day is an adventure of one sort or another, if you live, you learn.

  25. #25
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    Well, 9x19 is out. Certainly 38 Super is out (wonder where I can find one of thse China Sports 38 Super kits - and how one would work with 38 Super Comp or 9mm Steyer?). 9x18 Makarov is out (see post #13, supra), but 380 and 9x18 Super (or Police) remain to be tested. and there is the blank thing.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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