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  1. #1
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    mad Federal Ammunition American Eagle .22LR brick: CHEATED!

    I bought a brick of American Eagle 38 gr High Velocity .22LR ammo at the local sporting goods store. At $18.99, the price was about what 500 rounds of .22 are going for around here.

    When I got home, however, I noticed that the "brick" was ten boxes of FORTY rounds, not 50! Only 400 rounds in this "brick". Here is what a single box looks like:



    You'll notice that this marketing image doesn't show the number of rounds in the box.....



    It makes me very angry to see that some companies have begun to slyly cheat their customers with the use of deceptive packaging in order to avoid the appearance of raising their prices. (Have you checked the actual volume of your "half-gallon" container of ice cream recently? Bet it's only 1.5 quarts and not 2!) While "legal", this deceptive behavior is clearly unethical and doesn't say much for the integrity of the company.

    I hope Federal PR folks are reading this and that they choke on this message. I have noticed Federal seems to have become a bunch of chiselers lately. And don't forget that their parent company, ATK, illegally tried to stop sales of surplus military once-fired brass last year by buying it "under the table" from the military in some smoke-filled room deals.

    In my opinion, ATK owes American shooters an accounting of this recent slimy and shady behavior.
    Last edited by The Expert; 12-07-2010 at 12:41 AM.
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

    Member since Gunboards v1.0

  2. #2
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    At least the "333" is writ large on the package....kinda hard to miss. The cartridge count on the Federal is written in small type and only on two of the six sides of the box. Federal has also packed the 40 rounds into plastic trays, so that 40 rounds occupy the same space that 50 did in the old style boxes.
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

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  3. #3
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    My 900 rounds of Federal 223 that was 6 30 round boxes/180 rounds short was supposedly shipped directle from Federal.

    Is a pattern becoming evident or is this coincidence?

  4. #4
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    I think this is becoming a business model for Federal....try to hide price increases by decreasing the amount of ammo in the same sized box.

    ATK seems to be instituting this policy across their brands whenever possible, or so it seems to me.
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

    Member since Gunboards v1.0

  5. #5
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    Federal packages the AE .22lr in both 40rd and 50rd boxes. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. I haven't noticed them packaging any of their other .22lr ammo that way. Just American Eagle.

    Winchester used to sell their X-pert bulk .22lr in 500ct. cartons. Now, they've given the bullets a copper wash and sell them as "333"s.

    It's not just ATK and it's not just the ammo/shooting industry.

  6. #6
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    LOL I remember that when I lived in Arizona, the Jack-In-the-box fast food chain was alwasy bringing out great new food items. Just about the time you got used to them you noticed the sandwiches shrunk a bit and did not seem to taste the same ...LOL

    Or remember "Grandma's Big Cookie" ? THe actually used to be big individually wrapped single cookies. Now they are two "Much smaller in size" cookies that aren't as big as the individual ones were! lol

    Welcome to .. hmmmm "they won't notice" marketing.....
    AK_MILSURP
    Benefactor Life Member, NRA
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    www.amga.net

    "Remember the Range day, And keep it holy. May the light of the Holy Tracer guide thy aim"

  7. #7

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    Federal isn't the only one. Remington is marketing it's "golden bullet" 22's in a "game load" package that is also 40 rds a box/400 in the brick. The same loading with the "golden bullet" labeling is still 50 a box/500 the brick but is quite a bit more expensive.

  8. #8
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    And try to buy an actual 16-0z. pound of coffee at the market. However...
    ...this 40-rnd box of .22's is sick. Write them, not US!
    Alden

  9. #9
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    ENCOR TWO-POUND FAMILY SIZED DINNERS...yup, just 28 oz!!!
    Always looking for interesting 7.62x25 Tokarev and 7.63 Mauser cartridges!!!
    Member: International Ammunition Assoc. (IAA), European Cartridge Research Assoc. (ECRA). Ask me about membership!

  10. #10
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    I have worked in the grocery buisness for more than fifteen years and have seen more packages shrink in the past year than the others combined. It happens more if there are multiple brands of the same product, once one does it the rest follow suit. Since so many Americans could benifit by loosing a little weight (myself included) it may be better than just raising up the prices. Seen the prices of bacon lately the standard size pack is one pound and oscar mayer is running around $6 to $7 a pack, simply insane.

  11. #11
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    But there's no inflation.
    Alden

  12. #12
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    Its the current trend I noticed first with soap bars. They keep getting smaller and now they further reduce the amount you buy by curving the bar.
    What has our country become? More takers than givers.

  13. #13
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    550 round boxes of federal are still available



    fiveshot

  14. #14
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    I saw 20rd boxes of Shotshells a while back and I think they were from Federal.....they vanished after a while.

    There must have been some bitching on that too!
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  15. #15
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    they have been at it a while...I too bought a few bricks only to find 400 rds...maybe 4 or 5 years ago they were 50rds
    Turbo charger rebuilder and waste veg oil burner

  16. #16
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    Well fellas, the old "Caveat Emptor" still applies.....If you bought a brick of ammo, only to find out they've downsized the quantity, then really its your fault more than that of the company selling it. Yes, companies do resort to some underhanded tricks to sell product, but ultimately its up to the consumer to stay informed. "Read the label" can't be stated enough.....Always read the label. Now that you know this is happening, I'd either not buy Federal ammo anymore, or simply check the quantities listed and decide whether the price is reasonable before buying. I personally do not like Federal ammunition and only buy it if I'm in desperate need and the stores do not have any other brand(such as when buying hunting ammo). I mostly stick to Winchester or CCI for my .22 fodder. Its the better shooting ammo anyway.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney Smith View Post
    Well fellas, the old "Caveat Emptor" still applies.....If you bought a brick of ammo, only to find out they've downsized the quantity, then really its your fault more than that of the company selling it. Yes, companies do resort to some underhanded tricks to sell product, but ultimately its up to the consumer to stay informed. "Read the label" can't be stated enough.....Always read the label. Now that you know this is happening, I'd either not buy Federal ammo anymore, or simply check the quantities listed and decide whether the price is reasonable before buying. I personally do not like Federal ammunition and only buy it if I'm in desperate need and the stores do not have any other brand(such as when buying hunting ammo). I mostly stick to Winchester or CCI for my .22 fodder. Its the better shooting ammo anyway.
    Well said. I have a pack of the .22lr American eagle & it says 400 rounds on the side. One of the reasons you see the smaller packs of 400 & 333 rounds is because some people do not want a 500+ round pack of ammo. I sell ammo daily & many times people will buy 22lr in a box of 50 & frown on the big box. They only want a small amount. As far as other consumer packages out there go, reducing the size of the package reduces cost in material & shipping expense. The companies are in business to make money & with taxes, payroll, Government compliance costs, shipping & the myriad of other expenses companies face every year they need to get creative to stay in business. Do they make money? Sure! Should they be allowed to only make so much & guarantee us consumers dirt cheap prices? Heck no! they can ask whatever they want & package it to their liking for they have the right to do so. I don't always like it but it is what it is. We don't have to buy it of course. Inflation & the free market continues to roll on whether we like it or not.

  18. #18
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    Its common practice for companies to either reduce the size of an item, or reduce quantity, but keep the price the same. Or, they keep the size or quantity the same but as need arises, they raise the price. Again, read the label first.

  19. #19
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    Toilet paper rolls aren't as wide as they used to be either. Notice you have more of the paper holder spindel showing on each side, mine used to be a tight fit on the holder.
    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

  20. #20
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    Being a smoker I one day realized that cigarette packages of 25 one day only contained 24 ... 20 became 19.
    The only way to now is counting them or look at the number in small print on the tax band. I call this "candle stump economy". This is not honest, open business anymore, for me this is swindle and hypocrisy.

  21. #21
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    i just noticed my potato chip bags are only half full when i open them. i'm p.o.'d.
    " Dude with a pencil is worse than a cat with a machinegun"... Bo Diddley

  22. #22
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    "Caveat Emptor" is right! Whether it is cigs or cartridges, there are companies out there who go the unethical route.

    I have written them (.....and you know I'm just the guy to do it, ak-milsurp!). But one letter to them gets buried and forgotten. One letter to you guys lasts forever in Google.

    Federal's action is legal, but it is unethical. Since several companies were bought out by ATK, they seem to have acquired the some of the same disease. Here is a list of ATK's consumer companies (from their website) for your consideration the next time you go shopping:


    • Federal Premium and Estate Cartridge ammunition
    • CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition
    • Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories
    • RCBS reloading equipment
    • Champion clay targets
    • Weaver optics and mounting systems
    • Alliant Powder gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers
    • Eagle Industries law enforcement tactical accessories
    • BLACKHAWK! tactical, military, shooting sports, and law enforcement equipment
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rongoman View Post
    . As far as other consumer packages out there go, reducing the size of the package reduces cost in material & shipping expense.
    Nothing could be further from the truth. Smaller packages, which overall take up more room and whose packaging is basically all the same price, means that for any given cost-per-unit the expense goes UP. Additionally, the denser (heavier weight per volume) the shipment the LESS expensive -- more packaging, again, means lighter shipments per volume.

    So, the manufacturer reduces their product and saves 20%, their cost to deliver it goes up 7% per unit (a cartridge in this case) and you buy it for the same price or maybe an 8% discount... They walk away with 5% to 13% more margin and some a-hole American Eagle Division Marketing Director, a friend of the company President, formerly in lady's lingerie, gets a pat on the back, a bigger bonus, a promotion, and an interview in the left-wing paper saying how they've helped poor people in the tough economy make ends meet (but only after they make a political contribution to the DNC).

    Alden
    Last edited by Alden; 12-08-2010 at 06:32 PM.

  24. #24

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    I first noticed this trend in the early70's when I went to buy BB's for my BB gun; smaller & smaller BB count. Have you had one of Micky D's burgers lately? The meat (?) patty and even the bun is considerably smaller than in the not too distant past. I'd rather they raise the price than deceptivly market their goods. It's like being lied to.

  25. #25
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    Wow, someone doesn't read the label and all of a sudden we're to boycott everything ATK markets? I'm all for non-deceptive advertising, but even I know to read the label. Everything seems to come in different sizes/quantities nowadays. Maybe you could lobby for all stores to have one of those stickers on the shelf that actually states "price per round"?

    Let's boycott all manufacturers/marketers that don't do exactly as we feel they should. I'm sure I could find fault with all of them if I took the time to dig deep enough. Let's see........who outsources their labor and manufacturing oversees, raised their prices during the ammo/component scare, discontinued products I felt they shouldn't, etc. Some store chains actually request that manufacturers package their products in a specific way for them. I could name several.

    This sounds more like a personal vendetta rather than a simple case of not reading a label. Tell you what, take good pics of whatever it is you plan to buy with your cellphone camera. If the pics are good enough I'll be able to tell you the quantity of what you are buying if you post them for me to see. If you'll also include the asking price of said product I might even be able to break it down into price per round, assuming you can provide an accurate sales tax rate.

    Geez, all this over someone buying a brick of .22 ammo before looking at the quantity on the box? Not too terribly long ago you would have been happy just to find it on the shelves.

    Dale
    (contractor for one of the hideous ATK divisions)

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
    Wow, someone doesn't read the label and all of a sudden we're to boycott everything ATK markets? I'm all for non-deceptive advertising, but even I know to read the label. Everything seems to come in different sizes/quantities nowadays. Maybe you could lobby for all stores to have one of those stickers on the shelf that actually states "price per round"?
    I agree. Federal only packages one line of their .22lr in this manner, the American Eagle. And they have been doing so for some time. How is that indicative of a systemic "disease" or unethical practices within ATK?

    Are you really saying we should boycott all ATK-owned companies because you didn't read the package, and got 100 rounds less than you thought you were getting?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucko View Post
    I have worked in the grocery buisness for more than fifteen years and have seen more packages shrink in the past year than the others combined. It happens more if there are multiple brands of the same product, once one does it the rest follow suit. Since so many Americans could benifit by loosing a little weight (myself included) it may be better than just raising up the prices. Seen the prices of bacon lately the standard size pack is one pound and oscar mayer is running around $6 to $7 a pack, simply insane.
    At wally today a 1.5 # of bacon was 9.49. To hell with that, I'll eat oatmeal.

  28. #28
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    I don't know about a boycott: caveat emptor. I wouldn't buy any though and I can do the math to figure out what they should really cost. But to shrug one's shoulders? Maybe just far enough to get dragging-knuckles off the ground... IT'S A BOX OF .22! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 50 ROUNDS!! THEY'RE SCREWING WITH PEOPLE!!! Resent the HELL out of it, and tell 'em so.
    Alden

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
    Wow, someone doesn't read the label and all of a sudden we're to boycott everything ATK markets?

    Did you miss the part about ATK illegally cornering the market on surplus brass??? You may have missed that part, but I bet you didn't miss the recent shortage of military caliber ammunition on the civilian market. This was due in no small part to the unavailability of spent brass to the large commercial reloaders.

    To refresh your memory from 2009 (before ATK and the DoD was brought to heel by Congress....):


    Georgia Arms, who brought this to our attention, is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S.

    "We're right up there behind Hornady," Larry Haynie told me.

    He also told me with the cancellation of his contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of his ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, he will have to severely curtail his operation--laying off approximately half his 60-person work force.

    Haynie further pointed out this move is a stupendous waste of taxpayer money--reducing the worth of the brass some 80%--from casings, to shredded bulk brass.

    He stated most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

    Haynie was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country.

    He will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country.

    You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future--with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find.


    Now, with this hit, ammunition prices will go through the roof in the next year.
    [emphasis added]

    ( http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/d...-military.html )

    Hope you enjoyed spending a lot more for your ammo over the past two years.....if so, write ATK to thank them!
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

    Member since Gunboards v1.0

  30. #30
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    Where was the part about ATK being involved in the DOD's decision? While you can speculate on the government's motives all you like ATK companies make bullets, lots of bullets. Sounds like they were just swooping in to pick up a source of cheap brass with no malice intended to the reloading market
    BTW, mutilation is a fairly standard requirement for government surplus. I've browsed around on Government Liquidation's website and I've seen everything from m-113 transmissions to aircraft parts sold only on condition of shredding it for scrap.

  31. #31
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    Now we're talking about the ATK/military once-fired case thing again? Dang, I thought we we're discussing someone's inability to read a label!

    I apologize for trying to keep it "on-topic".

    Dale

  32. #32
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    I agree, the Federal ammo brick ought to be 500 rds like all others on the market.

    However: reading before buying is the lesson learned here.

    As my Ranger RI said one time: " Failure to follow instructions and Failure to pay Attention to Detail will get you dumb Rangers killed when you get to Viet Nam, Wake up and pay attention !"

    While he was addressing our entire patrol in Ranger School, I took the a$$ chewing personally and worked hard to correct my situational awareness.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by izzytok46 View Post
    Where was the part about ATK being involved in the DOD's decision?
    Search "ATK". Long thread on it, as tenntex32 will confirm.
    Geal ‘us dearg a suas!

    Member since Gunboards v1.0

  34. #34

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    The American eagle ammo bricks with 400rds in it are the hollow points.
    The American eagle ammo bricks with 500 rds in it are the lead solids.
    It has been this way for a long time.
    I shoot this more than any other 22 and the hollow points have been 400rds to a brick "in 40rd boxes times 10" for a lot of years.

  35. #35
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    Historically, folks refer to these items as: a POUND of coffee, a Half Gallon of ice cream, a POUND of bacon, and a 500 round brick of .22LR.

    The marketing genius is aware of ingrained perceptions, and is successfully able to manipulate it to adjust for the rising price of raw materials.

    At least when you buy powder for reloading, it still comes in pound or multiples of a pound canisters.

    Of course,back in 20th century America, gasoline (at least in Ohio & Michigan) was 29.9/gal - that's 29¢ for .9 gal ...

  36. #36
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    My Remington "Thunderbolt" and Winchester "Wild Cat" .22 LR ammo is still sold in 50 round boxes and 500 round bricks...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaywalker View Post
    The American eagle ammo bricks with 400rds in it are the hollow points.
    The American eagle ammo bricks with 500 rds in it are the lead solids.
    It has been this way for a long time.
    I shoot this more than any other 22 and the hollow points have been 400rds to a brick "in 40rd boxes times 10" for a lot of years.
    Well that makes sense because, well, u know, they're hollow points and, well, you know, because they're hollow points they, um, well, you know, um...

    Resent the HELL out of this and tell THEM.

    Alden

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenntex32 View Post
    Now we're talking about the ATK/military once-fired case thing again? Dang, I thought we we're discussing someone's inability to read a label!

    I apologize for trying to keep it "on-topic".

    Dale

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alden View Post
    I don't know about a boycott: caveat emptor. I wouldn't buy any though and I can do the math to figure out what they should really cost. But to shrug one's shoulders? Maybe just far enough to get dragging-knuckles off the ground... IT'S A BOX OF .22! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 50 ROUNDS!! THEY'RE SCREWING WITH PEOPLE!!! Resent the HELL out of it, and tell 'em so.
    Alden
    BTW Alden: I resent people who can't resist tossing out little insults from behind their keyboards. Of course, you never do it directly enough to get reprimanded by the mods.

  40. #40
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    wink2 Say, wait a minute....

    The American Eagle hollow points have had 400 rounds in them for all the years I have been shooting them (great ammo, by the way). Their per round cost is roughly the same as Blazers, so what does it matter if they come in a box of 400? The box does state the size (another good clue is that the box is physically smaller than a case of 500).

    This being America in 2010 everybody seems to have to have some reason to get bent out of shape and I guess this is yours.

    For myself, I have decided that I am going to be angry about snow and cold. Maybe I will blame the weather guy on TV. Who does he think he is, anyway?
    Buck Melanoma...Moldy Russell's Wart

  41. #41
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    I had posted earlier on this thread about being shorted 180 rnds of 223. SurplusAmmo got the missing 180 rounds to me. They made everything right. Thumbs up to them!

  42. #42
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    I got used to reading the lable after a few trips to the grocery (come on, 12 oz. of bacon.... really? ) I just wish that I didn't have to find the damn reading glasses to do it !


    I may fall for "creative packaging" once by mistake, twice is by my own stupidity.

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    I just read a claim that ethanol in gasoline doesn't affect food prices because they only use field corn that humans don't eat. They don't know that the principal ingredient of pig is field corn. You want cheap bacon, don't burn it in your car.

  44. #44
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    In all this thread there is nothing that upsets me more ..than the high price of Bacon ; ) mmmmm Meat candy!!!..I'll be sure to read the label just in case its not a full pound and I need to buy two..everything but the squeel

    Kudos to SurplusAmmo for making things right with Dr.J!!

  45. #45
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    Everything has been cut back in todays economy.... pound of coffee is more like 11.2 ounces... Ice cream 1/2 gallon and other stuff as OP's have said... It comes down to the consumer to read the label and see if its a deal or a rip off.

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